DakotaT
8 years ago

Not to worry, Troy. I'm not up to posting many novels anymore.

Not because of the site's change, evolution or whatever people call it. I miss this or that poster, but I like the place a lot still. It's still a valuable community for me, more valuable to the one where I work. It's still a destination site.

I just don't have much to say any more. Why? Dunno. Too many brain cells have died as a result of a llfetime of bad habits, early Alzheimer's, bad teeth, who knows?🤷

Plus of course most PH people, new or old, already know of my opinions on the need for OL improvement, domination v. finesse, religion, education, and the whack job species called Politicianus Americanus.

Originally Posted by: Wade 



I think you've dumped all your knowledge out already. 😂 I"m just getting started. 😉
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Pack93z
8 years ago
Making changes... always difficult.

I have had countless conversations with Zero over the years on this site and many times life in general. Some in public, some not. Through it all, I can say one thing with certainty; his heart is always in the right place in terms of making this a friendly place to kick back and talk Packers, joke a bit and also wax about life in general. There is a blend of patience, dedication and just plain work piled into it; but at the end of the day, we the posters of the site really control the quality of the discussions here.

During the peak of my involvement here... it had a different feel than it has had over say the last 18 months or so. Probably a little longer than that, but there was also some slipping prior. And none of that has anything to do with the site itself.. the features, the structure.

It slipped because like society as a whole, we collectively started to respect one another less and less.. instead of reading a counter post for what it is, we all read in more to it than was meant. Slowly we started to allow rift raft to join whose pure mission was to argue and more importantly target posters in place of topics. Cycled over and over... getting a bit more personal post after post.

Got to the point where even we couldn't come to a consensus of how to handle the "problem" poster. Long term members left... then a few more... some much more patience than I stayed and continued on with the discussions.

Yeah, I realize I am rambling... so I shall get to the point. Kevin can try to drive home as much change as he can... but unless the core members that drive much of the content can't respect each other to allow another to post their opinions freely, those effort to change will fall short.

Talk to the topic, refrain from turning the discussion towards a poster and understand the passion each of us have for different topics. Discuss, disagree, post and counter, but if nothing else find a bit of respect for one another. Have a bit of fun.. laugh and joke... this should be a break from the trials of life.. not another layer.

That can shit can those whose only mission is to stir the pot... pretty easy to spot them, that should be the main focus of the moderators, removing the trolls.

Oh... and Kevin, trust those that are willing to help, they wouldn't offer if they didn't care and understand that it will not always be a sweet reward at the end.

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
uffda udfa
8 years ago


During the peak of my involvement here... it had a different feel than it has had over say the last 18 months or so. Probably a little longer than that, but there was also some slipping prior. And none of that has anything to do with the site itself.. the features, the structure.

Got to the point where even we couldn't come to a consensus of how to handle the "problem" poster. Long term members left... then a few more... some much more patience than I stayed and continued on with the discussions.

That can shit can those whose only mission is to stir the pot... pretty easy to spot them, that should be the main focus of the moderators, removing the trolls.

Originally Posted by: Pack93z 



It would be helpful if you shared who you think the problem is. This is a no holds barred out of the shadows above board post on how to fix this place or make it better. The above doesn't get that done...it makes veiled accusations. Remove the veil so when someone assumes it's them it can't be said that it's really all about them.

You were one I considered one of the more intelligent voices here, yet, you were the same voice comparing Jarrett Boykin to Alshon Jeffery saying they were basically the same player. I will put that out of the shadows. Is this to "stir the pot" or "troll"? No. You haven't a clue what a troll is. Here is what a troll is not...

A person with a a strong opinion that is vastly different than yours who is not afraid to tell you about it.

I'm not sorry if me getting on to you about calling Boykin Jeffery is why you left here. I do agree that it has to be determined what you want this site to be. Do you want it to be a place where guys like Davante Adams is being compared to Sterling Sharpe and Jarrett Boykin being compared to Alshon Jeffery or do we want maybe a touch more balance. Sure, everyone has an opinion and the two in this paragraph were two of them but they were both insane to me and I posted as much. How is that trolling? You want to set your hair on fire and I tell you that's stupid and will hurt don't scream TROLL! ...and I'm just as entitled to my opinion as yours. Yes, yes, you are but you should be willing and able to take the scrutiny of what your post contains within. If you can't you're very likely to scream TROLL!... Pot Stirrer! because you have nothing to come back with an to avoid looking dim and uneducated you have to shift the focus off yourself and put it onto the person with the more intelligent opinion. Honestly, let's get it out in the open...while not the smartest guy in the world if you want to quantify Packers intelligence some are not very high on that list at all. That's a reality. How do you handle that when you have some way above the curve here and many well below. Should those atop the curve dumb down their postings to not hurt the feelings of those below the curve? No. Absolutely, not, or you get a dumber board. I like to harp on Nerd as he's omnipresent here. Almost without fail within every thread he's in he posts something that is simply and patently false. IE: Richard Rodgers was told to stand at the 10 yard line in Detroit for a deflected ball. Those kind of wrong and false statements follow him all over this board. If I come along and tell him that isn't true am I troll or pot stirrer or am I someone trying to post the truth?

Do you really want a dumber board where fantasy and wishes rule the day here or do you want a board that's smarter and more balanced in it's thinking. If you go for the latter, it will alienate all the posters (many) who can't hang in such a forum as they just don't have the knowledge some here do. OR... do you want the dumb board that punishes people for being more balanced and intelligent? OR... could you possibly have both? If you go with both there will always be conflict because the group below the curve is always going to feel hurt and hurl names at those who are brighter than they are. It's a dissuader to them posting because they have to live in fear their factless fantasy posts are going to held up to the light. When that happens then the below the curve poster starts hollering...TROLL!...Pot stirrer!...etc.

If you really want to fix that then know thyself. If everyone played within the confines of where they are this place would be fine. It absolutely falls apart when someone is pretending to be something they're not and wants accolades from the board for feigning to be brighter than they are like Nerd does all the time with the very inaccurate things he posts. Does that make him happy when someone like me posts something that counters what he said and makes him look ridiculous. No. Why would it especially if the aim is to try being somebody around here. I would want guys like me gone too so I could feel bigger than I am. I give deference to Barfarn in certain areas as he does things I do not and I understand that. I don't think he's a troll or a pot stirrer at all and I question what he writes all the time. That usually causes him to go full on name calling with taunts of caveman and DSM disorders. What a world. You'll notice the only things I've ever done is try to quantify poster type here...as in mentalities. They're right on. Nobody likes it but it's spot on. It's easier to spot someone with a positive less reality based perspective than it is a "troll". I've yet to see a troll on this board.

Know thyself... don't get offended if you're corrected. If you feel you need to leave because the board has gotten too smart for you that's sad. There is no winning posts. I want to provide perspective and ones I feel passionately about whether they're positive or negatively perceived.

I can just see the replies...Who does he think he is...he thinks he's God's gift, he thinks he's smarter, etc. One just has to ask themselves minus emotion if any of that is really true. In my case, I don't believe I'm God's gift to the forum but I do think my level of understanding is above the majority here. I've been closely following this team for a long long time. The irony is is that people who know very little about their Packers are crying and demanding respect as a poster while completely trying to take it away from those who they know happen to know so much more than they do. It's inverse and perverse. Not a good culture.

Barfarn works here because he's mostly posting positive things about the Packers save for Rodgers this season. Ironic he can rip Rodgers, the franchise, and he doesn't get labeled the way I do but I guess he's done enough feel good stuff on other players that he's built up some immunity.

Finally, it is okay to be wrong. This isn't personal...nobody is anybody here in the sense of being a big shot nor should desire it or act as if they are. Just be who you are.
UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


Pack93z
8 years ago
uffda udfa - No insult intended... but I could care less if I was wrong about a player. Or if you called me upon it... your rant is rather funny to me as it is all built on your thinking it had anything to do with what I was talking about. Nice rant... wrong direction.

And personally I don't consider you a troll in the least... strong opinions and likes to repeat themselves endlessly to try and prove themselves right maybe... but not a troll.

A troll to me is simply a person that has one agenda... to endlessly try an draw the attention to their posts to disrupt the flow of discussion. Many times something inflammatory and maybe even off the subject at hand. One filled with more insults than opinion.

There wasn't a reason or poster that I left for... I simply left because it no longer was a diversion from life, the experience here was just simply not fun. When the drama started to creep past my visiting this site... it was time to remove it for a while.

Threads with posters flinging insults back and a dearth of actual discussions about the topics raised. Derailed thread after thread... constant bickering. That isn't meaningful at all.

Now on your post, you realize there are ways to discuss a topic without treading into the personal realm. You overvalue Jefferies... a nice player but not a game changer... still isn't. My opinion at that time was the Boykins had the physical makeup to be that same type player... not a special player in any meaning. For whatever reason he stopped improving and developing... a guy with that size and hands... should have been a player that wins battles for the football in the intermediate depth. He didn't realize it.. so be it. But the rub here... even years later, you seemingly are keeping score. Why would be the question. But apparently kudos for you... pretty sure not the first time I was incorrect about a player.

I don't want a un-intelligent board, but I certainly don't feel it my place to keep that scorecard of when people were right or wrong. Hell, I have never seen a GM in this sport bat 1.000 yet. Speak to the topics, passionately even, but simply try to refrain from making it personal... sure emotion will tempt... might even cause a misstep.. but simply try to keep the topic on point.. the topic.

Lastly... why the hell are you so sensitive to the word troll?

The reason I don't name names, just simply isn't my style.. never has been.

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
nerdmann
8 years ago
What I find offensive about Ufda is:

1: Can't ever admit he's wrong.

2: Doesn't let it die. We get it, you disagree.

3: Subsequently attacks on a personal level.

Want my opinion? You have to face your limitations as a poster when I post...same goes for when Barfarn does it. It's kind of like me running against a guy who runs 4.4. I could bluster all day about how that guy sucks at running and I'm just as fast as he is but when the time comes to actually run the 4.4 guy is going to blow away the guy who is just all talk so you know what? The guy with the big mouth will never actually agree to a race.

I asked you something quite simple if I'm always twisting things. The request should be simple. It isn't because it's a protection for you that you can hide behind just like not running vs. the guy with 4.4 speed.



He can't just agree to disagree. Now he's insisting he's smarter than me. I can't cope with it, so now I'm the one twisting things around. He probably genuinely believes he is both smarter than everybody and right. But he just can't stop there.

The real truth, Nerd, is it bothers you there are guys like me out here who won't let you play big shot on forum. You know with me around your posts are going to be checked for accuracy and that's unnerving when you're trying to prove to everyone you're a guru but throwing out statements all over that have no basis in reality and can be easily refuted with some ever present facts.



I mean come on man. We can't call each other a dumbass but we can go on and on and on like THAT? Get over it dude. Nobody F'n cares what you think anymore. 🤣

If you want my opinion as to whether you "twist things," I'll give it to you. But if you don't want it, then don't F'n ask for it.

Back to IGNORE.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Pack93z
8 years ago

Honestly, let's get it out in the open...while not the smartest guy in the world if you want to quantify Packers intelligence some are not very high on that list at all. That's a reality. How do you handle that when you have some way above the curve here and many well below. Should those atop the curve dumb down their postings to not hurt the feelings of those below the curve? No. Absolutely, not, or you get a dumber board. I like to harp on Nerd as he's omnipresent here. Almost without fail within every thread he's in he posts something that is simply and patently false. IE: Richard Rodgers was told to stand at the 10 yard line in Detroit for a deflected ball. Those kind of wrong and false statements follow him all over this board. If I come along and tell him that isn't true am I troll or pot stirrer or am I someone trying to post the truth?



Now.. for this part of the post specifically... other than you holding a overtly high opinion of your opinions, it holds some truth in that some understand football and the dynamics more than others. Some are learning.. some are driven on passion and emotion... and some take small subsets of numbers or performances and run wild with the assumptions.

Yes, many times I see things that I disagree with and may post a countering opinion, because I feel it prudent, there are ways to do that while upholding the respect for their opinion. That is the respect I speak of... disagree with their viewpoint but do it with some tact and decorum.

If you wonder why you get more reaction than other for disagreeing with another... simply look at how you respond. You have a in your face methodology, it gets push back... and to be honest, it probably is your personality. So be it... but expect that reaction.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
nerdmann
8 years ago

Now.. for this part of the post specifically... other than you holding a overtly high opinion of your opinions, it holds some truth in that some understand football and the dynamics more than others. Some are learning.. some are driven on passion and emotion... and some take small subsets of numbers or performances and run wild with the assumptions.

Yes, many times I see things that I disagree with and may post a countering opinion, because I feel it prudent, there are ways to do that while upholding the respect for their opinion. That is the respect I speak of... disagree with their viewpoint but do it with some tact and decorum.

If you wonder why you get more reaction than other for disagreeing with another... simply look at how you respond. You have a in your face methodology, it gets push back... any to be honest, it probably is your personality. So be it... but expect that reaction.

Originally Posted by: Pack93z 



I've never said this outright, but to me, Ufda's world view seems to come from a place NOT of a high intelligence. His personality comes across as immature, yet he always seems to be condescending.

I'm not a perfect poster myself. I know it may be hard to believe, but sometimes I get emotionally wrapped up in a gut wrenching loss. On occasion, it's theoretically possible I could even be wrong about something at some point. And I don't mean to single Ufda out or persecute him. But he did ask for my opinion after all.


“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
uffda udfa
8 years ago

Now.. for this part of the post specifically... other than you holding a overtly high opinion of your opinions, it holds some truth in that some understand football and the dynamics more than others. Some are learning.. some are driven on passion and emotion... and some take small subsets of numbers or performances and run wild with the assumptions.

Yes, many times I see things that I disagree with and may post a countering opinion, because I feel it prudent, there are ways to do that while upholding the respect for their opinion. That is the respect I speak of... disagree with their viewpoint but do it with some tact and decorum.

If you wonder why you get more reaction than other for disagreeing with another... simply look at how you respond. You have a in your face methodology, it gets push back... any to be honest, it probably is your personality. So be it... but expect that reaction.

Originally Posted by: Pack93z 



I appreciate the shot(s). Overtly high opinion. Relatively, speaking...yes.

How would you propose someone going about "politely" telling someone that Alshon Jeffery and Jarrett Boykin are not the same? Post a Sesame Street Meme...one of these things is not like the other?

When someone has an agenda to post something crazy because they're feeling crazy sometimes you have to speak a little more directly to shake them from their craziness. That is not my MO on every post. I could point to the one I started on who you would want instead of Rodgers? There is no right or wrong and that was a very respectful posting. I'm calibrated for craziness...when there is lots of it as in the Boykin thing or Richard Rodgers being told to do something he wasn't, I respond a little more vigorously. Honestly, I'm seeking advice...tell me how you would respond to someone trying to posit themselves as a big dog on the board that is posting out of their backside? I think the vigor in which the desire to be perceived as a bigshot should be met with stern countering. Quid pro quo.

I'm glad you see that we do have people in differing stratas as far as knowledge. This is very important. Why you might choose to soft sell it and be more PC about it, I'll chose the Trump mentality a bit and really open it up to the truth of that fact as this is not supposed to be a soft selling thread. It's supposed to get things out in the opening and soft selling isn't going to achieve that.

BTW, my personality is nothing like that in person. As to a message board I'm very loose as to counter those who aren't really like they project here. I doubt the people pushing this I want to be big shot mentality here are doing that in real life. I feel I need to be that to counter the ridiculousness I see. If everyone was themselves, I would fall more in line with my natural personality which isn't to be combative. Again, the way football boards run necessitate being different.

Groupthink takes over on football message boards. I don't participate in it in any way shape or form and desire to be the opposite of that. If you're going to do that, you're going to be perceived the way I'm perceived. That's plain and simple. If you don't know what groupthink is...google it. You will see many pining for the halcyon days of groupthink in this very thread. In order for it to exist you can't have people like me because I don't want it and will fight against it. Thinking goes out the window substituted for a let's all feel good buddy club. Vomit.

In order to really fix things you have to first get honest and open about what is happening here. Let's talk about groupthink...let's honestly assess it's meaning and see if you don't think it applies here. I sure do. It is another reason I get called a troll...I don't fit the conformity the group desires and you would trade real thinking for conformity. My goal is to get to the truth of a situation. Yes, there will be differing opinions and yes in some cases we'll never really know who is right or wrong but why can't I think opposite of you without you namecalling me? Why can't I generalize the mindset I have to post against here? Is there something wrong with that? In the objectivity thread it had to be shutdown. For the love of, someone couldn't admit to the actual definition. Probably, still can't do it. So, we're left here thinking that objectivity doesn't really have a definition and it doesn't apply or mean anything. Yes, it does. It means a lot as to the validity of opinion. This is hard for me. What am I supposed to do? Dumb myself down to fit in? Again, I don't think I'm a genius...I just have followed this team closely for a long long time. I have perspective from my former life that others don't have and I am a bright individual.




UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


Pack93z
8 years ago

BTW, my personality is nothing like that in person. As to a message board I'm very loose as to counter those who aren't really like they project here. I doubt the people pushing this I want to be big shot mentality here are doing that in real life. I feel I need to be that to counter the ridiculousness I see. If everyone was themselves, I would fall more in line with my natural personality which isn't to be combative. Again, the way football boards run necessitate being different.



Finally, it is okay to be wrong. This isn't personal...nobody is anybody here in the sense of being a big shot nor should desire it or act as if they are. Just be who you are.



So which is it... be yourself or put on a combative face?

BTW, it wasn't a shot as much as calling it as I see it, you wanted openness... got it. Nothing wrong with a healthy ego.. but lets not pretend your posts are not filled with subtle "shots".

But back to the point, a very good forum allows people to be themselves within the confines that fosters discussion. This place was once that... countering opinions, jesting back and forth and some very good hardcore football discussion. Yes at times there was posts from out in left field or fueled on nothing but emotion, but there was way more focus on the topics than this type of conversation. Or the drama. It had a fun vibe.

So I simply ask, if you really want to fix it, why should there be a necessity to being different?

99% of the members here root for the same team... why the need for combat at all? Just so I am clear, it will never be candy canes and sunny skies, but it certainly doesn't need to be filled with nonstop heel snipping each other. Discuss, disagree, post and counter... that is the heart of a forum; that said, it doesn't have to be the normal fan board with scrums at every turn.

No one wants a "groupthink" mentality I would have to believe, but they do want to be able to post freely without having to double check everything in context. You seem to take a much more serious edge to the business at hand, where as many are here to talk some football, but to enjoy doing it as well. Your definition of a good discussion varies from many others.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
DoddPower
8 years ago

It's called knowing the body of work of the poster. You actually take the time to read the novels written by Uffda, Barfarn, or Wade? You have that kind of time on your hands?

Every once in a while, I'll humor myself and read one of Wade's novels and if dissatisfied, I let him have it. Otherwise, that's skimming material.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



lol, skimming material indeed!
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