TheKanataThrilla
4 years ago

Hyde and Hayward.....just what I have said in the past. Letting good players go, and trying to fill those voids in the draft. Kids coming out of college rarely make a huge impact right away. Some not for several seasons. So you let known good guys leave for “best player available” hopes. Hopes that may never develop.
I know you can’t keep everyone. And I agree that better 1year early then 1 year late. But guys that are good and not over the hill, you need to hold onto if you want a shot at a championship.

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



But Randall and Rollins both had decent rookie years which made losing Hayward and Hyde palatable. Hayward was injured quite a bit and Hyde was decent, but got big bucks by the Bills for what he provided to Green Bay. Unfortunately that was likely because he was not in the correct position.
Zero2Cool
4 years ago

Have you actually seen any team do that for an entire season? Or even 8 games?

Originally Posted by: beast 


Asking a loaded question says more about the one asking, and the one asked.

I know they it's a fairly common short term strategy to deal with certain players it certain teams, but I haven't seen (or if I did, didn't realize it) that any team has consistently done it the majority of multiple back to back to back games.

I believe the reason for that is because it can create even more problems with different half of the field working differently than the other, so just get the WRs to cross, and the guy in man wants to stay in man, and the guy in zone wants to stay in zone... so now you can two guys on one WR and a WR running free and wide open.

Originally Posted by: beast 



My point is if you have someone who is good at Man and someone who is good at Zone, there are options to utilize both.

Random thought ... When Jets had Darrelle Revis and locked him on someone, did they play zone or man? I am not saying Hayward or Shields were Revis level, just using an example that I think most can be familiar with.
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Zero2Cool
4 years ago

Hyde and Hayward.....just what I have said in the past. Letting good players go, and trying to fill those voids in the draft. Kids coming out of college rarely make a huge impact right away. Some not for several seasons. So you let known good guys leave for “best player available” hopes. Hopes that may never develop.
I know you can’t keep everyone. And I agree that better 1year early then 1 year late. But guys that are good and not over the hill, you need to hold onto if you want a shot at a championship.

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



The (speculating based on actions taken) belief was they had reached their ceiling with the Packers. And they drafted (more speculating) best player available and that made Hyde and Hayward expendable. If you have youth coming in that you perceive to have a higher ceiling than those who are commanding large contracts and have hit their ceiling, your decision is made for you.

I'm not at all upset about Hyde or Hayward. Hyde I thought was a great utility guy. Hayward I thought was over rated by us Packers fans.


Jared Cook ... that guy I would have liked to have retained. Something fishy happened there. I read reports the Packers offered something similar to Raiders and because the Packers didn't offer it fast enough, Cook was pissed and left. Remind me of Cullen Jenkins situation.
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Cheesey
4 years ago
Zero, I also thought something was goofy with Cook.
But I sure wish it wouldn’t have ended the way it did.
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beast
4 years ago

Asking a loaded question says more about the one asking, and the one asked.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 

Except that wasn't a loaded question, I was serious wondering and if someone said yes (and we could find proof), my inner football need would be so darn excited...

As I said, I looked hard for it, and only could find VT Tech that had done it over the long term if every snap for multiple games (and they did it for years), but I haven't seen anywhere else even attempt it other than short term.

I believe because it creates system eras, in which another team in theory could easily take advantage of, though VA Tech wanted you to take those chances as they bet you couldn't complete them on their talented DBs, but I'm not sure that would work in the pros.

My point is if you have someone who is good at Man and someone who is good at Zone, there are options to utilize both.

Random thought ... When Jets had Darrelle Revis and locked him on someone, did they play zone or man? I am not saying Hayward or Shields were Revis level, just using an example that I think most can be familiar with.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 

I get your point, and really like and enjoy the out of the box thinking, but while there are options, considering that an extremely extremely rare option, I don't think the coaches believe it's a smart option for some reason.

Revis and Cromartie basically always locked up in man coverage, they weren't zone guys at all...

Of course, by definition, locking someone up on a WR is man coverage, because you stick with them in man coverage, you stick with your zone in zone coverage... which is why mixing the two clash against each other when used at the same time.


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beast
4 years ago


Jared Cook ... that guy I would have liked to have retained. Something fishy happened there. I read reports the Packers offered something similar to Raiders and because the Packers didn't offer it fast enough, Cook was pissed and left. Remind me of Cullen Jenkins situation.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Cook, Jenkins and Jennings are rumored to all be cases of players/agents over valuing their free agency market... basically the players bet on themselves and loss (well Jennings might of been breaking even).

But Packers made their best offer to Cook and the agent held out trying to an even bigger contract, and Packers got their highest rated FA TE to sign for slighty higher deal than what Cook's group rejected... and Cook ended up taking a good bit less than he rejected with the Raiders.

Same thing with Jenkins, but that happened in season, and Jenkins was reported pissed with the low ball offer he received in season... turns out that low ball offer was more than anyone else would offer him come FA, and still pissed at the Packers he signed with the Eagles, who after they restricted his contact (or release him if he didn't), he earned less than the offer too.

Jennings reported turned down, I think 11 million per year... but based on Twitter from him and his family, they KNEW the Dolphins were going to sign him to a mega deal (Jennings 'sister was already semi publicly planning her trip to visit her brother in South Beach lol). because they REALLY needed a #1 WR, they had a lot of cap cash to spend and because Joe Philbin and Mike Sherman were head offensive guys with the Dolphins now...

One problem, GM had control and he preferred and got Mike Wallace instead...

Then Vikings got into the mix, and Packers offered him 10 million, Vikings offered less, but Jennings was upset at Packers, so they kept talking to the Vikings, and comparing the better Packers offer to them, and they ended up getting the Vikings to match the $10 million and Jennings signed with them.




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Zero2Cool
4 years ago
Sure is crazy how much the human element affects signing deals at times. I think we fans often times think it's 100% dollars.

If you're looking for some NFL game fix -- get the NFL Game Pass. It's free right now. You can watch any game you want dating back to 2012!
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Zero2Cool (46m) : Former #Packers TE Josiah Deguara is signing a 1-year deal with the Jaguars, per source.
Zero2Cool (1h) : They do not do it for "content sake".
dfosterf (12h) : For the record, I enjoy Beast and Mucky drafts
Zero2Cool (18h) : Haha
Mucky Tundra (19h) : No time for talking! Back to work beast!
beast (20h) : You saw only 4,201 of my mocks? 🥺 I think that means you missed more than half of them 😢
dfosterf (23h) : Does anyone know what Lambeau field improvements got put on hold? My guess would be for the 2025 draft
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : It's like listen, you made 4,201 mocks, no shit.
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : Cuz during the draft "I had them mocked there!" as if it's amazing.
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : They're fun to do once in awhile. It's people who think they are "content" that annoy me.
dfosterf (27-Mar) : Against tbd
dfosterf (27-Mar) : Answer to your question is yes, it's a Thursday, will be the Chiefs aga
dfosterf (27-Mar) : Luckily for all concerned, I don't post them. I did one, but that was like 25 mocks ago
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : NFL 2024 gonna start Sept 5th isn't it???
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : Ugh... kids these days!
dfosterf (27-Mar) : I'm gonna go do some more mock draft hell instead 🤪
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : Did we do one of those prediction threads yet for 2024 season?
dfosterf (27-Mar) : In my city, they are playing the nimby game, in order to keep some railroad tracks vs. 2 professional sports teams and a concert venue.
dfosterf (27-Mar) : And/Or a city council, of which I haven't seen a good one in a very long time
dfosterf (27-Mar) : That sounds like a Mayor, not a city.
buckeyepackfan (26-Mar) : Packers halt scheduled 80mil upgrade of stadium until lease agreement talks are restarted
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : City of Green Bay puts Packers' Lambeau Field lease talks on hold
buckeyepackfan (26-Mar) : Packers 1 of 3 teams to vote no on new kickoff rule.
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Packers sign another Kicker
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Lengthy explanation at PFF if you click the link
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Kickoff rules officially changed.ngthy explan
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : lol
Cheesey (26-Mar) : 2009? No thanks! One open heart surgery is enough!
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Good for you!
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Yes. That's the one.
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Is that "Lady Dugan" per chance?
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Crystal?
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Please refresh my memory
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Alan posts. Crystal back in my life. It's 2009 all over again! Lol
Mucky Tundra (26-Mar) : BAH GAWD! THAT'S CHEESEYS MUSIC!
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Gutekunst said early stages of Jordan Love contract being discussed.
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Shouldn't be penalized cuz official screwed up
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Yeah, challenge until you are incorrect twice.
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Fining them is the goal, per the people who made the rule anyway.
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Still waiting on the kickoff rule changes. Did hear yesterday that the touchback proposal will now be the 30 yard line, not the 35
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Probably speed of game issues with your proposal
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Hopefully the refs don't get in the habit of throwing flags on this
beast (25-Mar) : I think when it comes to Challenges should get two strikes, so unlimited challenges as long as they keep winning them, but 2 wrong then done
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Still subject to the fines etc
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Yes, I should have been more specific. Also, they are now saying it would be a 15 yard penalty. That makes more sense .
beast (25-Mar) : Simply fined in the week to follow
beast (25-Mar) : I agree with one NFL official, it'll probably be like some of the helmets hits, not really called by the refs on the field but simply fined
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Hip drop is not. Super confusing. Referees job is harder
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Swivel hip drop is banned
dfosterf (25-Mar) : The hip drop enforcement will be in the form of fines, etc. Not flags
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