Smokey
3 years ago
IMO, help for those in dire need should available, but they have to seek it out. They have to go to their local social services, church, food bank, or other to request that help. There is a point where hunger or electricity or freshwater needs outweigh one's pride. I don't want to see/hear of any suffering due to unemployment, but perhaps some will for the first time get a taste of what too many were experiencing even before this medical crisis. They will for the first time, even if temporary, walk that mile in another persons shoes. It never hurts to learn about how some others have been living for years.

Now, many are like horses pulling at the bit to open everything as before this pandemic. That could be disastrous where "Hot Spots" infection are the worst. Careful, graduale opening of selected businesses may be possible with strict rules and vigilant monitoring. However opening up the local "Dew Drop Inn" simply because people are thirsty and want to play pool is not considering the expodental effect if Covid-19 gets spread from the saloon to the community. Someone's Mother or Grandfather or Sister unrelated to the Bar may get infected because some thought more of their personal wants, but in the end may just cause the death of someone they never knew.

My own father grew up during the great depression of the 1930's and as a result it affected him for the remainder of his life. He was very tight with money, grew a garden as a guard against depending on others to supply his family's food, and repaired everything until he was forced to replace it. That said, I wonder what lessens will America learn from this Coronavirus tragedy?

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KRK
  • KRK
  • Veteran Member Topic Starter
3 years ago

My own father grew up during the great depression of the 1930's and as a result it affected him for the remainder of his life. He was very tight with money, grew a garden as a guard against depending on others to supply his family's food, and repaired everything until he was forced to replace it. That said, I wonder what lessens will America learn from this Coronavirus tragedy?

Originally Posted by: Smokey 

Alas....it takes a economic hardship and authoritarian government to experience a great awakening. Perhaps we will learn to question everything....I hope we have learned:[list]
  • Experts are obsessed with being right, not doing the right thing. They hate being questioned. Don't listen to them without questioning their data, assumptions, and agenda
  • Socialism bring about more death than snowflakes would have imagined[*]Our media is corrupt[*]Many in our government are corrupt[*]The government can't and won't take care of you.[*]Live below your means[*]Cash is king.[*]Humility[*]that trust has to be earned not just granted[*]Every job is essential...especially to the person doing it[*]To begin to deal with the fact that we are all going to die at some point[*]Starbucks really isn't that important[*]You can't just click an icon on your phone and make something happen....someone at the other end has to make it first[*]Communist China is our mortal enemy[*]It would probably be a good thing if that we don't have our mortal enemy make 90% of our pharmaceuticals, PPE and other essential products[*]Family is priceless[*]If it weren't for the Second Amendment, we would all be slaves[*]The best intentioned people make mistakes[*]Judge peoples decisions on the facts they had available to them when they made those decisions (applies to sports as well)[*]Packershome is a blessing [/list]

  • In Luce tua Videmus Lucem KRK
    Smokey
    3 years ago
    Experts, as long as they are not political lackeys, place their years of study and deserved status on the line when they publicly address an issue. In some cases, they place their carrier and reputation on the line to present what is not always the "popular" view.

    Is the "snowflakes" reference a racial slur? It's not just a one way street you know.

    I agree that America has placed too much trust in other countries to supply goods and services. This can place us behind the 8 ball in an emergency like we are seeing now. Too much of the manufacture of potential life/death items must be imported from foreign nations. Nations that are some of our rival/enemies have the control of these critical supplies/machines. I'd like to see a national bipartisan commission to identify critical medical/military items and mandate that if America does not already make it here, that selected businesses can quickly switch over to at home production. Otherwise in a war or other unforeseen crisis we could be placed in the bad position of our enemies cutting off such critical supplies. We can't depend on medicines made in India or gunpowder from South America or China for our electronics. We must have a greater ability to independently make it in the USA.

    Many in the media have their own bias and try to slant the news to fit their spin on things. However this is not 100% true for all media. Common sense must come into play as what is/is not the truth is evaluated. A video of a statement/event/or other must stand as hard evidence that can't be denied to suit a political or personal need after the fact.

    Last, can we allow others to place innocent citizens at risk because they "need" to go to the beach or party with 40 or 50 mostly unknown strangers. As Covid-19 continues to spread, do we relax our vigilance as the weather warms up or because we are tired of staying at home. What businesses are safe to reopen, and what precautions need to be in place? What businesses are too dangerous to reopen until a cure/vaccine is certified? These and other similar questions will require careful consideration as we move forward.


    UserPostedImage
    KRK
    • KRK
    • Veteran Member Topic Starter
    3 years ago

    Experts, as long as they are not political lackeys, place their years of study and deserved status on the line when they publicly address an issue. In some cases, they place their career and reputation on the line to present what is not always the "popular" view.

    Originally Posted by: Smokey 

    And in some cases, they have an agenda. Question everything.

    Is the "snowflakes" reference a racial slur? It's not just a one way street you know.

    Originally Posted by: Smokey 

    No...it refers to those in our society, including many millennials, who are too convinced of their own status as special and unique people to be able (or bothered) to handle the normal trials and travails of regular adult life. The idea behind the term is that they are told they are special way to often, just like a snowflake is unique. But they seem to be as fragile as a snowflake if you challenge their opinions or when they encounter stress.

    I agree that America has placed too much trust in other countries to supply goods and services. This can place us behind the 8 ball in an emergency like we are seeing now. Too much of the manufacture of potential life/death items must be imported from foreign nations. Nations that are some of our rival/enemies have the control of these critical supplies/machines. I'd like to see a national bipartisan commission to identify critical medical/military items and mandate that if America does not already make it here, that selected businesses can quickly switch over to at home production. Otherwise in a war or other unforeseen crisis we could be placed in the bad position of our enemies cutting off such critical supplies. We can't depend on medicines made in India or gunpowder from South America or China for our electronics. We must have a greater ability to independently make it in the USA.

    Originally Posted by: Smokey 

    AMEN. I would like to see tax incentives for the people who make these items, or would invest in those companies...not grants, but tax incentive so that the private sector deploys capital.

    Many in the media have their own bias and try to slant the news to fit their spin on things. However this is not 100% true for all media. Common sense must come into play as what is/is not the truth is evaluated. A video of a statement/event/or other must stand as hard evidence that can't be denied to suit a political or personal need after the fact.

    Originally Posted by: Smokey 

    Video evidence is the best....totally agree.

    Last, can we allow others to place innocent citizens at risk because they "need" to go to the beach or party with 40 or 50 mostly unknown strangers. As Covid-19 continues to spread, do we relax our vigilance as the weather warms up or because we are tired of staying at home. What businesses are safe to reopen, and what precautions need to be in place? What businesses are too dangerous to reopen until a cure/vaccine is certified? These and other similar questions will require careful consideration as we move forward.

    Originally Posted by: Smokey 

    Actually, some of the questions may never have answers. And there are other questions that need to be addressed:[*]why do we continue to ignore the science.
    [*]lockdowns do not prevent the spread of the virus the simply slow it down. Just yesterday, NY announced that over 60% of the new cases were people in lockdown. [*]a health person under the age of 60 has less that a .5% chance of dying from this virus....why should they be locked down?
    [*]A vaccine may never come....and most flu vaccines are less than 70% effective[*]We have to remember, the intent of the lockdown was not to prevent the spread, it was to prevent our health care system from being overwhelmed.[*]if we don't open up...safely with distancing and masks, etc....there wont be a health care system...they are going broke[*]By the way, the beach may be the safest place on the planet to be. The half life of the virus is 1.5 minutes in the sun, heat, and humidity compared to 18 hours indoors. Going to the beach and being safe or not mutually exclusive.[*]Who are we to tell healthy, low risk people (or anyone else for that matter) to abandon their freedoms and not support their families...Our healthcare concerns do not preempt their constitutional rights.[*]Cancer patients, heart patients and others are dying from the lack of treatment. Our collective cure many be worse than the disease.[*] Herd immunity is the only real answer. Shelter the at risk, and open it up. Return To Normalcy may be the key to overcoming Covid-19 [*]The government cannot continue to print money and go into further debt. That is the most selfish thing our generation can do the next generations.
    In Luce tua Videmus Lucem KRK
    Cheesey
    3 years ago
    “Snowflakes” has nothing to do with race.
    Well....KRK answered everything quite well.
    I am in the “high risk” category. I’m over 60, have heart disease, diabetes and asthma. When I go to the store, I wear a mask. I go for long walks.
    I have always kept active since my open heart surgery 11 years ago. I think that has helped me remain strong. A lot of us “older” people don’t exercise much, and it makes them more likely to get sick.
    I’ve seen more people walking around my neighborhood the last 2 months then I’ve seen in the last 5 years.
    UserPostedImage
    Smokey
    3 years ago
    "A vaccine may never come....and most flu vaccines are less than 70% effective
    We have to remember, the intent of the lockdown was not to prevent the spread, it was to prevent our health care system from being overwhelmed.
    if we don't open up...safely with distancing and masks, etc....there wont be a health care system...they are going broke
    By the way, the beach may be the safest place on the planet to be. The half life of the virus is 1.5 minutes in the sun, heat, and humidity compared to 18 hours indoors. Going to the beach and being safe or not mutually exclusive.
    Who are we to tell healthy, low risk people (or anyone else for that matter) to abandon their freedoms and not support their families...Our healthcare concerns do not preempt their constitutional rights.
    Herd immunity is the only real answer. Shelter the at risk, and open it up. Return To Normalcy may be the key to overcoming Covid-19 "



    KRK, have you put in the study and dedication to earn a degree in Science or Medicine? Saying,
    "the intent of the lockdown was not to prevent the spread, it was to prevent our health care system from being overwhelmed.", is crap. Your President and the State Governors would never consider shutting down their economies, placing people out of work, home schooling their youth, and canceling major annual events without solid reason. This is not a normal circumstance and it has caused Governors to invoke emergency conditions that are not lightly considered. They know that in the absence of a cure or vaccine, the best way to fight the spread Covid-19 at this time is limit it's spread. As for those you stated that were infected in spite of Social distancing, I say they must have been infected outside of their home or through someone else that transferred it. They could not have been 100% isolated.

    In the future, a vaccine or other medical may put this viral killer to rest. My crystal ball has yet to magically show me any future miracles. If you or others wish to place yourself at greater risk, I don't care. What I do care about is those "exercising their constitutional freedoms" infecting the innocent around you.

    Our Federal, State, and local governments are truly aware of the hardships that out of work family supporters and all the rest are facing at this trying time. It's why government assistance, food banks, and scores of others have rallied to feed, house, and otherwise render assistance as best they can. We can't expect that during this pandemic that many are going to less well off than others. This is not a war in the traditional sense, but a war it is. Shame on those that selfishly put others in unwarranted danger because they are tired of staying at home.
    UserPostedImage
    KRK
    • KRK
    • Veteran Member Topic Starter
    3 years ago

    KRK, have you put in the study and dedication to earn a degree in Science or Medicine? Saying, "the intent of the lockdown was not to prevent the spread, it was to prevent our health care system from being overwhelmed.", is crap.

    Originally Posted by: Smokey 

    No, but I have a fully functional brain and have listened and read numerous studies from Dr. on both sides of the debate. Did you listen to Dr Fauci at any of the briefings? 'Not overwhelming the system' was clearly the major reason for the shutdown. Did you think it was just going to go away?

    Your President and the State Governors would never consider shutting down their economies, placing people out of work, home schooling their youth, and canceling major annual events without solid reason. This is not a normal circumstance and it has caused Governors to invoke emergency conditions that are not lightly considered.

    Originally Posted by: Smokey 

    For some yes...for some they crave the power and are just not following the science. Whitmer in Michigan is a perfect example...she is a power hungry buffoon. Most of the state does not need to be shut down. You can buy dope, get an abortion, or go buy a lotto ticket but can't go to church, but seeds, get cancer treatment or go fishing. Hardly 'solid reasoning'

    They know that in the absence of a cure or vaccine, the best way to fight the spread Covid-19 at this time is limit it's spread.

    Originally Posted by: Smokey 

    False. The long term solution is herd immunity. Isolate the 'high-risk' and let the low risk patients get back to work with reasonable precautions.

    As for those you stated that were infected in spite of Social distancing, I say they must have been infected outside of their home or through someone else that transferred it. They could not have been 100% isolated.

    Originally Posted by: Smokey 

    How do you know they didn't isolate? Were you in New York? Did you see them? The point is you can't 100% isolate. Do you think maybe the virus may have been on deliveries?

    In the future, a vaccine or other medical may put this viral killer to rest. My crystal ball has yet to magically show me any future miracles. If you or others wish to place yourself at greater risk, I don't care. What I do care about is those "exercising their constitutional freedoms" infecting the innocent around you.

    Originally Posted by: Smokey 

    I hope for cures both prophetically and vaccines. But yes....our health concerns should have a lower priority to other peoples' constitutional rights. If we want to isolate, that is our choice.

    Our Federal, State, and local governments are truly aware of the hardships that out of work family supporters and all the rest are facing at this trying time. It's why government assistance, food banks, and scores of others have rallied to feed, house, and otherwise render assistance as best they can. We can't expect that during this pandemic that many are going to less well off than others. This is not a war in the traditional sense, but a war it is.

    Originally Posted by: Smokey 

    Yes it is....and in any war, there are difference of opinion on how to fight, or whether to surrender.

    Shame on those that selfishly put others in unwarranted danger

    Originally Posted by: Smokey 

    Agreed.
    And shame on those who want to tell other people how to live their lives. Shame on those who have fixed guaranteed incomes who engage in moral narcissism and preach to people who have to work to support their families to stay home, even though those people have only a .5% of dying from the virus...if they even contract it.
    In Luce tua Videmus Lucem KRK
    Cheesey
    3 years ago
    Thank you KRK for your well thought out posts. You always have valid points and word them well.

    Hopefully we can all get back to some kind of “normal” soon.
    In history there have been many diseases that were devastating, yet God hasn’t allowed mankind to be completely killed off. We will get through this one as well.
    UserPostedImage
    Zero2Cool
    3 years ago

    If we want to isolate, that is our choice.

    Originally Posted by: KRK 



    Unfortunately, for some of us, it's a choice between continuing our income vs isolating. Not all employers are willing to let you work from home. My current employer (leaving for new job next week) is telling people they have to return to work in phases. And the amount of hoops and inconveniences that are presented is astonishing. I can understand having those who cannot work from home as efficiently as in the office -- definitely. There are many who have an adequate if not better situation at home than at work and get more done. I'm one of the fortunate few who has a profession that many work remote.

    When it comes to this COVID-19 stuff, I really do not know what to believe or trust. I personally couldn't care less if I get it, but then that means I could be a carry for my family and friends. That is where my worry is at. I have a young daughter who has respiratory issues and rather than put her in day care, I chose to stay at home and have her with me. It was probably a good decision too because last week we found out a parent of a child at the day care tested positive for COVID-19.

    I just wish they'd find some way to have a cure for this quick. I don't care if it's jumping jacks while saying the bears don't really suck after all. Okay, actually, I would rather COVID-19 than say that outloud.
    UserPostedImage
    Cheesey
    3 years ago
    That’s one of the problems. Trying to find a cure fast.
    They have to jump through hoops. All the testing to make sure the cure doesn’t have adverse effects.
    By the time they get through with the trials, many more people will have died.
    UserPostedImage
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