Zero2Cool
10 months ago
I saw a lot of rumblings about rebuilding vs not rebuilding vs retooling vs whatever. So let's debate semantics!!

In your words, what is rebuilding?

And also, what is the consensus understanding of a rebuild?

I kind of think a team that is rebuilding is one that has a new front office and/or coaching staff. Followed by eating a lot of salary cap in the current year vs kicking the can down the road. Trades all their veterans for draft picks.

I'm not sure the Packers fall into that category. I think the Packers were kind of going "all in" for a few years and now are back to status quo. They drafted a QB to take over the reigns and he sat for three years. Now he's getting his chance. So, relative to the last few seasons, I can see how some might look at the Packers as rebuilding. I guess I could be wrong because I don't really know what rebuilding truly means.
UserPostedImage
10 months ago
I think your interpretation is correct.

With the existing coaching staff and front office and a plug in quarterback that they had planned to plug-in, this is clearly more of a reload.
Go Packers!!!!
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
10 months ago
A rebuild is "trying" to lose. The team has little to no valuable assets. They only keep the ones they simply can't get rid of. They look for the top draft picks, then trade them for additonal draft picks. 
Just look at d(umb)a bares and you see.
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beast
10 months ago

A rebuild is "trying" to lose. The team has little to no valuable assets. They only keep the ones they simply can't get rid of. They look for the top draft picks, then trade them for additonal draft picks. 
Just look at d(umb)a bares and you see.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



I strongly disagree, I call what you described Tanking. The bares tanked leaving their roster bare to get the #1 draft pick.


​​​​​​Rebuilding is when simply hitting the restart button like the Packers currently are doing, they're refreshing their offense and rebuilding their cap space. They're not trying to use, but restarting with a new QB, lots of newish weapons from the last two years and possibly a restart on scheme going more towards LaFleaur's wide zone scheme by getting rid of the Rodgers hybrid part of the scheme that he kept from Mike McCarthy scheme.


Now, it might be considered a minor rebuild, compared to the deep rebuild the Lions did... but still rebuilding the depth charts and cap space and building for the future, and not the now.


Retooling is what the Chiefs did... you're going for the playoffs and Super Bowl, but changing pieces like Tyreek Hill out for new pieces like J. Smith-Schuster and MVS.

 
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earthquake
10 months ago
Yeah, I have to agree with beast here. What we're currently seeing I would classify as a rebuild. Not tanking to get the #1 pick or whatever. But the signs of a rebuild are pretty clear to me:
1. Trading the best two players on the team the past two years for draft capital
2. Not signing significant free agents this year and letting a few significant ones go the past couple of years - freeing up cap space for future years and absorbing the cap hit they've been putting off with contract restructures. This year it's quite clear that they're trying to clear $ from the books and get some comp picks in 2024.
3. Completely revamping the WR and TE positions

Sure, there isn't a new GM and coaching staff in place, but I don't think that is required for a rebuild. If anything, I think the Packers intended to start the rebuild sooner - new coaching staff in 2019, new QB in 2021 or so, but then Rodgers was playing too well for them to fully commit to the transition plan. Two straight MVP seasons will do that. 

But yeah, I don't think you can really "retool" after a losing season where you miss the playoffs. If that's the case the Bears and Lions are "retooling" practically every year.

All that said, I don't think a rebuild means the Packers necessarily will be bad this year. If they have done this well, they could be competitive this year. This largely depends on how brightly Jordan Love shines when the lights turn on.

I also think the Packers have enough core players that are young (Love, Watson, Gary, Runyan, Tom, Dillion, Walker) or in their prime (Jenkins, Clark, Alexander, Douglas, Campbell) that they can rebuild without completely starting over.
blank
Zero2Cool
10 months ago
So the Packers are rebuilding but not by their choice? Let's keep in mind Adams wanted to leave. Rodgers wanted to leave. Let's also keep in mind that thing that limits how much money you can spend, salary cap.

What I'm reading is people stretching things to fit this "rebuild" narrative. The more stretching I see, the less I think the Packers are rebuilding. 

I mean, is it really smart to over pay for free agents when you got a first year starting QB? Especially when you're strapped for cash? And are the Packers ever really aggressive in free agency? I think 2019 they spent big. 

Maybe the Packers are perpetual rebuilding team? 🤷‍♂️ Maybe that's why one Super Bowl in last 10-12 seasons? 
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beast
10 months ago

So the Packers are rebuilding but not by their choice? Let's keep in mind Adams wanted to leave. Rodgers wanted to leave. Let's also keep in mind that thing that limits how much money you can spend, salary cap.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 


​​​​​​Rebuilding is never any teams preferred choice... it's only done because something has to be reset, and you just brought up many of the items that needed to be reset, QB, WR, and Salary Cap. 

​​​​​

What I'm reading is people stretching things to fit this "rebuild" narrative. The more stretching I see, the less I think the Packers are rebuilding. 

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 

And you talk about me not being able to accept other people viewpoints... no one is stretching a word, they just have a different believe of the words meaning and usage. 

You asked, we answered, you don't our answers and you criticize them... be overly anal about the unimportant semantics if you wish... but the reality is that they've clearly attempted to rebuild the offense OL depth over past years and the WRs and TEs the last two years. 


​​​​​​
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nerdmann
10 months ago
Rebuilding is better than spiraling downward. But I don't think we ever spiraled downward. We hot a new QB. Restocked some offensive weapons. 

You need a constant, steady turnover, new younger guys arriving, old broken down guys leaving. Otherwise you end up like Joe Gibbs, retiring as coach after a long and immense talent cycle, in which guys retired but were not replaced. 
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
10 months ago
With all due respect, we are not rebuilding.

If we were you would see Bakhtiari gone,  Alexander traded, PSmith gone.

We are involuntarily reloading.
Go Packers!!!!
beast
10 months ago

With all due respect, we are not rebuilding.

If we were you would see Bakhtiari gone,  Alexander traded, PSmith gone.

We are involuntarily reloading.

Originally Posted by: Martha Careful 



Sounds we're all on the same page, just different semantics for similar things.

As what you and others are describing as rebuilding, myself and others call tanking or a full rebuild. And what myself and others are describing as rebuilding, you and others are called reloading. Just a disagreement of semantics, no one disagreeing in what's going on.

And Packers did see a lot of their vets go... it's just that they were free agents, which might of been planned by Gute.

And a number of fans have at one point or another suggested Bakhtiari and P. Smith to be gone.... I wanted them to trade Bakhtiari to the Jets if they could get another 1st round pick out of it (but Jets probably didn't have the cap space).

But the Offensive weapons have been completely rebuilt the last two years.
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Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (5m) : Former #Packers TE Josiah Deguara is signing a 1-year deal with the Jaguars, per source.
Zero2Cool (1h) : They do not do it for "content sake".
dfosterf (11h) : For the record, I enjoy Beast and Mucky drafts
Zero2Cool (18h) : Haha
Mucky Tundra (19h) : No time for talking! Back to work beast!
beast (19h) : You saw only 4,201 of my mocks? 🥺 I think that means you missed more than half of them 😢
dfosterf (23h) : Does anyone know what Lambeau field improvements got put on hold? My guess would be for the 2025 draft
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : It's like listen, you made 4,201 mocks, no shit.
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : Cuz during the draft "I had them mocked there!" as if it's amazing.
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : They're fun to do once in awhile. It's people who think they are "content" that annoy me.
dfosterf (27-Mar) : Against tbd
dfosterf (27-Mar) : Answer to your question is yes, it's a Thursday, will be the Chiefs aga
dfosterf (27-Mar) : Luckily for all concerned, I don't post them. I did one, but that was like 25 mocks ago
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : NFL 2024 gonna start Sept 5th isn't it???
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : Ugh... kids these days!
dfosterf (27-Mar) : I'm gonna go do some more mock draft hell instead 🤪
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : Did we do one of those prediction threads yet for 2024 season?
dfosterf (27-Mar) : In my city, they are playing the nimby game, in order to keep some railroad tracks vs. 2 professional sports teams and a concert venue.
dfosterf (27-Mar) : And/Or a city council, of which I haven't seen a good one in a very long time
dfosterf (27-Mar) : That sounds like a Mayor, not a city.
buckeyepackfan (26-Mar) : Packers halt scheduled 80mil upgrade of stadium until lease agreement talks are restarted
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : City of Green Bay puts Packers' Lambeau Field lease talks on hold
buckeyepackfan (26-Mar) : Packers 1 of 3 teams to vote no on new kickoff rule.
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Packers sign another Kicker
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Lengthy explanation at PFF if you click the link
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Kickoff rules officially changed.ngthy explan
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : lol
Cheesey (26-Mar) : 2009? No thanks! One open heart surgery is enough!
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Good for you!
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Yes. That's the one.
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Is that "Lady Dugan" per chance?
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Crystal?
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Please refresh my memory
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Alan posts. Crystal back in my life. It's 2009 all over again! Lol
Mucky Tundra (26-Mar) : BAH GAWD! THAT'S CHEESEYS MUSIC!
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Gutekunst said early stages of Jordan Love contract being discussed.
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Shouldn't be penalized cuz official screwed up
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Yeah, challenge until you are incorrect twice.
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Fining them is the goal, per the people who made the rule anyway.
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Still waiting on the kickoff rule changes. Did hear yesterday that the touchback proposal will now be the 30 yard line, not the 35
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Probably speed of game issues with your proposal
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Hopefully the refs don't get in the habit of throwing flags on this
beast (25-Mar) : I think when it comes to Challenges should get two strikes, so unlimited challenges as long as they keep winning them, but 2 wrong then done
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Still subject to the fines etc
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Yes, I should have been more specific. Also, they are now saying it would be a 15 yard penalty. That makes more sense .
beast (25-Mar) : Simply fined in the week to follow
beast (25-Mar) : I agree with one NFL official, it'll probably be like some of the helmets hits, not really called by the refs on the field but simply fined
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Hip drop is not. Super confusing. Referees job is harder
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Swivel hip drop is banned
dfosterf (25-Mar) : The hip drop enforcement will be in the form of fines, etc. Not flags
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