Hell of a post Zero, well stated.

They Should be showing the championship games on NFLN this weekend or next though and it might be worth checking out again cuz Formo's right, the Vikes had a lot to do with beating themselves in that game.

"dingus" wrote:

Despite the many questionable calls (not using them as excuses because they shouldn't have even mattered if the Vikings did their job), the Vikings turned the ball over way too many times. I think 5. But put it on the ground 6 or 7 (my memory keeps telling me 7, but I'm not sure). The most they turned the ball over in any other game was 3. So judging from past recent performances, they beat themselves. They turned the ball over 2 more times than they had in their second most turnover prone game of that year.

The Saints had NOTHING to do with the botched handoff between Favre / AP. There wasn't a Saint close enough to touch either one of those guys. That's just ONE example of how the Vikings beat themselves that game. That was in the red zone too. That's a potential 7 point swing.

"Formo" wrote:

So the secret to beating Favre is to play really good pass coverage, and win the one on one battles up front? Yeah...a lot easier said than done. The Saints didn't unlock any secrets. They just executed very well.

"IronMan" wrote:

Yes, the point of most defense is to get to the QB and disrupt his rhythm. No one's saying the Saints unlocked any trade secrets or anything of that nature. I'm saying they sacrificed men deep for men up front to apply pressure. They took a risk in hoping they could get to Favre before he released the ball to an open receiver.

I just think more teams will use an extra backer or lineman to apply pressure on Brett. I think also, he's going to scorch many teams on that with short dump offs. I think it'll be successful a game or two, but you can't stop Brett with one flavor, he'll find a way to beat you.

Don't mention Capers, he's Favre's bitch, there's no denying it.

I don't remember the Saints/Vikings game fully, but I didn't get the impression the Vikings were beating themselves more than the Saints were beating them. The Saints were forcing the Vikings into making mistakes, which is what good teams do. You rattle their cage and pounce on the miscues.

I don't think there's really a blueprint to beating Brett. If you throw heavy blitz, he'll kill you with short passes. You use coverage, be it zone or bump, he'll find away to zip the ball in there.

If there's a "blueprint" to beating Brett, I think it's getting his team down by a score or two, and hit him hard over and over again to wear him down into getting frustrated and forcing passes.

"IronMan" wrote:

Guess I seem to take the whole beating yourself more of an excuse than reason. I'm not saying the Saints were more talented, but when a team forces you to make mistakes, and then capitalize on them, I thought that was the point of being an aggressive defense. Force your opponent to buckle and screw up.

I don't really remember the game too much, so I could be wrong. Maybe the Vikings OL was sacking Brett and the WR switching uniforms in the middle of the routes. 😛 Nah seriously, I just don't buy it.

I can't say I understood it when a fan says we beat ourselves, hell, even I've said it in the past, but really, what does that mean? How does a team beat itself?

Certain things I could understand, say missing a 30 some yard FG with limited pressure on the kicker. QB with plenty of time, has an open WR and throws it into coverage and intercepted. Fumbling the ball without anyone touching you. Etc, things of that nature, sure I get that, but I didn't see too many mistakes that weren't attributed to the Saints whipping the shit out of the Vikings in a way the Packers could only dream of doing.

Or is saying your team beat itself a way of saying they choked?


:shrug:

"dingus" wrote:

I could believe the Vikings gave away that game if it was a fluke for NO to get a pile of TOs. But it wasn't a fluke, they made their living off turnovers all year. If you watch the highlights of the game, every one of the turnovers except the bad exchange and the final int were forced. The exchange may have been forced a little by the penetration altering APs path. I didn't see it from a decent angle.

Favre also had a crappy but gutsy game. A 70 rating is bad for an all star. 61% completions, 2 ints and a fumble. Fairly close to his typical post season loss for the last 12 years.

AP didn't lose any fumbles unless you hang the exchange on him, then he gets one. Still less than Favre's 2 ints.

The thing NO did differently was not focusing on AP to the point of letting Favre have his way. Everything was contested. They didn't go for his fakes, didn't try and jump up and knock down a pass and didn't go for the ball. Just drive through him. AP got got his yards but for the most part was contained and frustrated.

"Dexter_Sinister" wrote: