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Offline Silentio  
#1 Posted : Monday, September 26, 2011 1:00:59 PM(UTC)
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We had a discussion about Finley's (non-)TD catch against the Panthers two weeks ago. Peter Kings weighs in this week in Monday Morning QB:

Read the article here

Emphasis mine. I am in total agreement with King here. The rule is able to be understood using reason, but in practice it is absurd. There has to be a creative way for the NFL to standardize catches in and around the end zone that makes sense to players, coaches, and fans alike.
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Zero2Cool on 9/27/2011(UTC)
Offline Zero2Cool  
#2 Posted : Monday, September 26, 2011 1:52:47 PM(UTC)
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There's a link in my signature, please read its contents.



I'm not sure what a catch is any more either. I know the rules, I know what the rules say, but the enforcement of the rules appears to vary.
Offline Greg C.  
#3 Posted : Monday, September 26, 2011 2:54:46 PM(UTC)
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I accept the rule about controlling the ball to the ground, but that variation on it doesn't make sense to me. If the receiver is already in the end zone, it's not a catch, but apparently if the receiver is falling into the end zone, it is a catch. I don't get it at all.
Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#4 Posted : Monday, September 26, 2011 2:59:16 PM(UTC)
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Well, it's because the ground can't cause a fumble, you see. Unless that ground is painted the goal line. Then it can.[duh]
Offline Silentio  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, September 27, 2011 1:50:07 PM(UTC)
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Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
There's a link in my signature, please read its contents.


Sorry about that, Zero. I’ll do better next time coach.
Offline Dexter_Sinister  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, September 27, 2011 2:42:53 PM(UTC)
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The thing that I am most disappointed with is there seems to be no delineation to the act of making a catch or to the act of going to the ground.

How far does the WR have to go before he goes to the ground before it is no longer the act of catching the ball. How far after hitting the ground does going to the ground last.

Calvin Johnson was actually getting up from the ground when he lost the ball.

Jennings lost the ball after getting his third step down out of bounds before going to the ground.

I watch when a WR took 2 steps out of bounds before hitting the ground, it was a catch before he hit the ground, but apparently if you go to the ground after making a catch getting both feet in bounds, taking two steps out of bound then hit the ground, the ground can cause an incompletion.

Where does the act of catching the ball end? My opinion is when possession is established by normal criteria. 2 feet down and a football related move. Which should include that 3rd step.

Going to the ground should end when your downward momentum is stopped. Either movement has stopped or the WR starts getting up without halting his momentum.
Offline Greg C.  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, September 27, 2011 3:33:00 PM(UTC)
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Dexter_Sinister said: Go to Quoted Post
The thing that I am most disappointed with is there seems to be no delineation to the act of making a catch or to the act of going to the ground.

How far does the WR have to go before he goes to the ground before it is no longer the act of catching the ball. How far after hitting the ground does going to the ground last.

Calvin Johnson was actually getting up from the ground when he lost the ball.

Jennings lost the ball after getting his third step down out of bounds before going to the ground.

I watch when a WR took 2 steps out of bounds before hitting the ground, it was a catch before he hit the ground, but apparently if you go to the ground after making a catch getting both feet in bounds, taking two steps out of bound then hit the ground, the ground can cause an incompletion.

Where does the act of catching the ball end? My opinion is when possession is established by normal criteria. 2 feet down and a football related move. Which should include that 3rd step.

Going to the ground should end when your downward momentum is stopped. Either movement has stopped or the WR starts getting up without halting his momentum.


What they are looking at is whether the impact of hitting the ground causes the ball to be jarred loose. Usually that happens instantly, but sometimes it slips out a moment afterwards, as was the case with the Calvin Johnson play. I do think it was the impact of hitting the ground that caused him to drop that ball. He pretended afterwards that he had dropped it on purpose, but I never believed him, and that would be a very stupid thing to do anyway.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, September 27, 2011 4:17:43 PM(UTC)
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Greg C. said: Go to Quoted Post
I accept the rule about controlling the ball to the ground, but that variation on it doesn't make sense to me. If the receiver is already in the end zone, it's not a catch, but apparently if the receiver is falling into the end zone, it is a catch. I don't get it at all.



<puts on tinfoil hat>

Whichever referee is paid the most by the receiving team gets the call in their favor.
Offline Dexter_Sinister  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, September 27, 2011 4:54:05 PM(UTC)
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Greg C. said: Go to Quoted Post
What they are looking at is whether the impact of hitting the ground causes the ball to be jarred loose. Usually that happens instantly, but sometimes it slips out a moment afterwards, as was the case with the Calvin Johnson play. I do think it was the impact of hitting the ground that caused him to drop that ball. He pretended afterwards that he had dropped it on purpose, but I never believed him, and that would be a very stupid thing to do anyway.

That isn't my issue. The ball survived impact, Calvin rolled over and got his butt off the ground before he swung the ball around and hit the ground causing him to lose control of it. He was on his way back up.

That is the issue to me.

The initial impact didn't do anything.

How long after making a catch does the WR have to control the ball in the endzone before the play is over. 3 steps, 4 or mabye 5. What is the cut off. If a WR gets both feet down, gets knocked down by contact, does 3 somersaults, goes out of bounds, hits the goal post, lands on his left side and then drops the ball, is that still the process of the catch? If so, I disagree and it is a stupid interpretation of a good rule. That is a little extreme but if they don't say when the process ends, it never ends.

If the WR established possession by normal criteria before going to the ground, the ground shouldn't cause an incompletion. If he gets both feet in, then steps out of bounds and goes down, it should be a completion. The process should end when possession is established.
Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, September 27, 2011 5:09:30 PM(UTC)
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I would say this is a catch.:-"

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