Pack93z
  • Pack93z
  • Select Member Topic Starter
11 years ago
It isn't a horrible idea, but there are a couple concerns I would have with it.

1. It would favor passing oriented teams verses run oriented team a bit.

2. What would happen on a defensive penalty that was less than 15 yards but generated a first down. Defensive holding would come to mind. Would it result in a first down and retain possession? It would be just another play that we get to watch the offensive players beg for a flag. Any Flag.


What I do like about it is:

1. It eliminates probably the most ridiculous play in football.. the onside kick.

2. It will reduce the risk to the players overall with probably the most dangerous play in the game with the most high impact collisions.

Sean Gregory of TIME writes that one of the options being considered for replacing kickoffs entails giving the ball to the team that would have been kicking off at its own 30, automatically facing a fourth down and 15 yards to go. The team can then choose to punt or go for it, via fake punt or otherwise.

"PFTalk" wrote:


"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Porforis
11 years ago
Not a fan at all.

1. Why change? What reason is so important to justify making such a huge change to the way the game has been played since the beginning?
2. Nobody's going to go for it, and on the rare occasion that they will, you're replacing one trick "ridiculous play" with another.

You should be glad that NSD isn't here anymore to pull his statistics out of him bum saying that kickoffs are not particularly dangerous as compared to other plays. I guess my fear is that we can make all the changes in the world to make the game safer and safer, but at some point you need at accept that this is a rough game where people get hurt. Should we prevent people from turning themselves into missiles and launching their head into someone else's? Sure. Should we prevent people from using others' facemasks as a tackle-handle? Of course. But this isn't a minor rule change, this is a fundamental change to special teams in general. As such, there's a much higher burden to prove that this change is NEEDED, and not that it will just prevent one or two injuries a year.
Pack93z
  • Pack93z
  • Select Member Topic Starter
11 years ago
From experience.. I can tell you.. it is the heaviest hits you will take on average game in and out.

But stats to support it.


While I don’t have access to the NFL’s data , I did find this study on high school athletes, entitled “Effects of Time in Competition, Phase of Play, and Field Location on Injury Severity in High School Football” by Ellen E. Yard. Some of the lowlights as it relates to injuries for high school football players:

32.7% of injuries on kickoffs and punts were “severe” (defined as 21 or more missed days), compared to 19.3% on other plays.
20.3% of injuries on kickoffs and punts were concussions, compared to 10.9% on other plays.




Look.. they don't get any more traditional in the aspects of the game than I. Ask ZombieSlayer. lol.

But the risk vs reward of the kickoff isn't there with 10 guys running full speed smashing into other guys going in the opposite direction at varying speed. Law of physics will tell you there are more high speed hits in that single play (even in touchbacks) than the remainder of the plays on the field. Full speed contact that is.

This option, you still have the return element involved.. just you will not have as much full speed contact involved.

I remember all the worry about the kickoff placement change.. it will ruin the game. Really.. has anyone really noticed? Removing this play from the game, an ever evolving game, really isn't that big of a deal other than to maybe 2 to 3 players on the roster that make their living on this aspect of the game. And most of those will be retained for the punt returns.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Pack93z
  • Pack93z
  • Select Member Topic Starter
11 years ago
One more note on this.. I present this argument with the aspect that the game is under fire from lawsuits and safety concerns.

The game has changed and will continue to change with concussion being the primary focus. I would rather lose a play like this than them continuing to march down the road of fines and taking more and more contact out of the game.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
yooperfan
11 years ago
Well, we could have just flag football with no helmets or pads.
I,m quite sure the incidence of injury would diminish markedly.

Seems like we are headed that way anyway.
Pack93z
  • Pack93z
  • Select Member Topic Starter
11 years ago



Seems like we are headed that way anyway.

Originally Posted by: yooperfan 



That is kind of the attitude I accepted late in the 2010 season, besides being still pissed about the CBA.. I also accepted that the game I fell in love with as a child will be changing over the course of this decade due to liability lawsuits.

The NFL, regardless of how they present it, is trying to show that they are changing and that player safety is the priority. We all know money is the priority.. and player safety is directly tied to that cash cow.

Hence the over reactions to hits and blocks.. they are in a time crunch to show change.

My point here is this.. if they are going to change the game, I would rather this aspect change than further watering down the aggressive nature of the game.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
PackFanWithTwins
11 years ago
This is really getting old. They are trying to take the hits out of the game, because players file lawsuits, yet the players are the ones who don't want to remove the hits from the game in the first place. I say, ask the players. Do you want the hitting removed for your own safety, or do you want to risk it. this isn't 50 years ago where they can play dumb and say we didn't know.


The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
Pack93z
  • Pack93z
  • Select Member Topic Starter
11 years ago

This is really getting old. They are trying to take the hits out of the game, because players file lawsuits, yet the players are the ones who don't want to remove the hits from the game in the first place. I say, ask the players. Do you want the hitting removed for your own safety, or do you want to risk it. this isn't 50 years ago where they can play dumb and say we didn't know.

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 



Agreed.. Lawyers will be the death of all things good on the face of this earth.


"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Porforis
11 years ago
I guess I'm just less quick to accept that this is the way it has to be. It probably is, but it doesn't mean that I need to settle for the lesser of two evils - I still have some hope that the Players Union and past players stop pretending that they never knew that playing football could cause long-term damage, sign a waiver saying that any injuries sustained during a game are not the responsibility of the NFL and rattle off all known immediate and delayed physical issues associated with football, give the players and union a few goodies and call it a day.

Regardless of what the end results might turn out to be, this isn't about player safety and it isn't about what's good for the game. This is about political games, and both sides (NFL and players/union) need to grow up and find a more acceptable solution than turning the game upside down and inside out.
Pack93z
  • Pack93z
  • Select Member Topic Starter
11 years ago

I guess I'm just less quick to accept that this is the way it has to be.

Originally Posted by: Porforis 



I had the same hope prior to the lockout.. that failed. I continually watch players hold out in the second year of contracts for more pay. We see owners and the league office screw fans out of seats sold.

Time after time we see money put before the game.

This time.. it is a cash grab by players of the past.. looking for a cut of the pie the NFL has become. Just like the owners and to a degree the league itself.. they give two shits about the game itself as the priority. It is and will be going forward about the money.

It is all relative to society.

Much like the cost of living raise the Wisconsin Representatives want to give themselves as the rest of the working population hasn't seen that in a couple years. Money is truly the root of the problem.

Quick to change.. not really.. this has been increasing year in and out. Just don't see it changing.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Fan Shout
dfosterf (5h) : For the record, I enjoy Beast and Mucky drafts
Zero2Cool (12h) : Haha
Mucky Tundra (13h) : No time for talking! Back to work beast!
beast (13h) : You saw only 4,201 of my mocks? 🥺 I think that means you missed more than half of them 😢
dfosterf (17h) : Does anyone know what Lambeau field improvements got put on hold? My guess would be for the 2025 draft
Zero2Cool (19h) : It's like listen, you made 4,201 mocks, no shit.
Zero2Cool (19h) : Cuz during the draft "I had them mocked there!" as if it's amazing.
Zero2Cool (19h) : They're fun to do once in awhile. It's people who think they are "content" that annoy me.
dfosterf (19h) : Against tbd
dfosterf (19h) : Answer to your question is yes, it's a Thursday, will be the Chiefs aga
dfosterf (19h) : Luckily for all concerned, I don't post them. I did one, but that was like 25 mocks ago
Zero2Cool (19h) : NFL 2024 gonna start Sept 5th isn't it???
Zero2Cool (19h) : Ugh... kids these days!
dfosterf (19h) : I'm gonna go do some more mock draft hell instead 🤪
Zero2Cool (19h) : Did we do one of those prediction threads yet for 2024 season?
dfosterf (20h) : In my city, they are playing the nimby game, in order to keep some railroad tracks vs. 2 professional sports teams and a concert venue.
dfosterf (20h) : And/Or a city council, of which I haven't seen a good one in a very long time
dfosterf (20h) : That sounds like a Mayor, not a city.
buckeyepackfan (26-Mar) : Packers halt scheduled 80mil upgrade of stadium until lease agreement talks are restarted
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : City of Green Bay puts Packers' Lambeau Field lease talks on hold
buckeyepackfan (26-Mar) : Packers 1 of 3 teams to vote no on new kickoff rule.
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Packers sign another Kicker
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Lengthy explanation at PFF if you click the link
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Kickoff rules officially changed.ngthy explan
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : lol
Cheesey (26-Mar) : 2009? No thanks! One open heart surgery is enough!
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Good for you!
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Yes. That's the one.
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Is that "Lady Dugan" per chance?
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Crystal?
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Please refresh my memory
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Alan posts. Crystal back in my life. It's 2009 all over again! Lol
Mucky Tundra (26-Mar) : BAH GAWD! THAT'S CHEESEYS MUSIC!
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Gutekunst said early stages of Jordan Love contract being discussed.
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Shouldn't be penalized cuz official screwed up
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Yeah, challenge until you are incorrect twice.
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Fining them is the goal, per the people who made the rule anyway.
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Still waiting on the kickoff rule changes. Did hear yesterday that the touchback proposal will now be the 30 yard line, not the 35
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Probably speed of game issues with your proposal
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Hopefully the refs don't get in the habit of throwing flags on this
beast (25-Mar) : I think when it comes to Challenges should get two strikes, so unlimited challenges as long as they keep winning them, but 2 wrong then done
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Still subject to the fines etc
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Yes, I should have been more specific. Also, they are now saying it would be a 15 yard penalty. That makes more sense .
beast (25-Mar) : Simply fined in the week to follow
beast (25-Mar) : I agree with one NFL official, it'll probably be like some of the helmets hits, not really called by the refs on the field but simply fined
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Hip drop is not. Super confusing. Referees job is harder
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Swivel hip drop is banned
dfosterf (25-Mar) : The hip drop enforcement will be in the form of fines, etc. Not flags
dfosterf (25-Mar) : A major foul will be enforced on the offense if there are offsetting penalties in a change of possession situation
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Teams will receive a 3rd challenge if 1 was successful. Previously, it took 2
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2023 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 10 @ 3:25 PM
Bears
Sunday, Sep 17 @ 12:00 PM
Falcons
Sunday, Sep 24 @ 12:00 PM
SAINTS
Thursday, Sep 28 @ 7:15 PM
LIONS
Monday, Oct 9 @ 7:15 PM
Raiders
Sunday, Oct 22 @ 3:25 PM
Broncos
Sunday, Oct 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Nov 5 @ 12:00 PM
RAMS
Sunday, Nov 12 @ 12:00 PM
Steelers
Sunday, Nov 19 @ 12:00 PM
CHARGERS
Thursday, Nov 23 @ 11:30 AM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 3 @ 7:20 PM
CHIEFS
Monday, Dec 11 @ 7:15 PM
Giants
Sunday, Dec 17 @ 12:00 PM
BUCCANEERS
Sunday, Dec 24 @ 12:00 PM
Panthers
Sunday, Dec 31 @ 7:20 PM
Vikings
Sunday, Jan 7 @ 3:25 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Jan 14 @ 3:30 PM
Cowboys
Saturday, Jan 20 @ 7:15 PM
49ers
Recent Topics
5h / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

5h / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

5h / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

12h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

17h / Random Babble / Zero2Cool

27-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

26-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

26-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

26-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

25-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

25-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

24-Mar / Around The NFL / dhazer

24-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

24-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

22-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2024 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.