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wpr  
#1 Posted : Monday, January 28, 2013 8:36:03 PM(UTC)
Quote:
The offensive line was one of the weak links of the 2012 Green Bay Packers. The stats back it up.

The Packers gave up the second-most sacks in the NFL — 51. Only the 5-11 Arizona Cardinals gave up more (58). The Packers were also 26th in yards per rush, at 3.4.

So who were the culprits?

Well, it’s hard to track offensive line production on running plays, but it’s pretty easy to track it in two other areas — sacks allowed and penalties.

And you know we’re always happy to point fingers. Hell, the Packers coaching staff doesn’t do it. Someone has to.

The Packers had seven guys start games on the offensive line in 2012. Only two guys started every game — Marshall Newhouse and Josh Sitton.

For those who didn’t start all 16, we took their stats and averaged them out over a 16-game schedule. Here’s who won and who lost.

Most sacks allowed (16 games)

Don Barclay (14)
T.J. Lang (12)
Marshall Newhouse (10)

Fewest sacks allowed (16 games)

Josh Sitton (2.5)
Jeff Saturday (4)
Evan Dietrich-Smith (5)

Most penalties (16 games)

Evan Dietrich-Smith (13)
Don Barclay (12)
Bryan Bulaga (9)

Fewest penalties (16 games)

Jeff Saturday (1)
Marshall Newhouse (3)
T.J. Lang (4)

Here’s each guy’s individual line.

Marshall Newhouse
16 starts, 10 sacks allowed, 3 penalties

Don Barclay
4 starts, 3.5 sacks allowed, 3 penalties
16 starts, 14 sacks, 12 penalties (projected)

Bryan Bulaga
9 starts, 5 sacks, 5 penalties
16 starts, 9 sacks, 9 penalties (projected)

Evan Dietrich-Smith
6 starts, 2 sacks, 5 penalties
16 starts, 5 sacks, 13 penalties (projected)

T.J. Lang
15 starts, 11 sacks, 4 penalties
16 starts, 12 sacks, 4 penalties (projected)

Jeff Saturday
14 starts, 3.5 sacks, 1 penalty
16 starts, 4 sacks, 1 penalty (projected)

Josh Sitton
16 starts, 2.5 sacks, 6 penalties

What does all of this tell us?

Well, No. 1, it’s fair to say Josh Sitton is the Packers best offensive lineman. It’s also fair to say Don Barclay is easily overwhelmed in pass protection.

That’s not a surprise, considering he was an undrafted rookie thrust into the starting lineup. What surprised all of us was that he was a road grader in the running game, which is something we’re obviously not measuring here. Does that make up for his inadequacies in pass protection? Unfortunately, no.

Also fair — T.J. Lang, Bryan Bulaga, Marshall Newhouse and Evan Dietrich-Smith have some areas to improve in. Or maybe a better assessment is this. The Packers need to bring in some new talent on the offensive line.

It’s not hard to see that the left side of the Packers offensive line didn’t play well in 2012. Of the team’s 51 sacks surrendered, 25 were given up by Newhouse and Lang — the team’s starting left tackle and guard.

Those positions should be priorities for the Packers to address this offseason. Will they? We’re going to say it’s doubtful.

The team is still counting on former first-round pick Derek Sherrod to compete for a spot. There’s also been talk of moving Bulaga back to left tackle (although he wasn’t much better than Newhouse in 2012). Then there’s the fact the Packers gave Lang a contract extension last offseason.

That doesn’t bode well for an influx of new talent. Besides, you know the Packers love the status quo more than anything else.
link
RajiRoar  
#2 Posted : Monday, January 28, 2013 9:01:16 PM(UTC)
AT LEAST half of the sacks are Rodgers' fault.. He holds the ball way too damn long.

Aaron Rodgers and Mike McCarthy do not help the line much at all.
Rockmolder  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, January 29, 2013 4:33:37 AM(UTC)
Would be fair if we could get a breakdown of when Lang gave up those sacks, hurries and hits. His games at RT were awful, further acknowledging the fact that he's a guard. I actually thought he did a pretty decent job at that spot.

Barclay is what he is. A pretty decent run blocker with some glaring holes in his pass protection.

Newhouse was/is an athletic project. I think that he can still get better and be an effective LT, but yes, he does still get beaten by the better pass rushers at this point in his career. I don't know if he'll ever become an elite LT, I don't think so, but he's servicable.

We should hope that Sherrod comes back strong. He's not that much different from Newhouse, but just a tad bigger, a tad more talented. I feel that, with some development, he'll surpass Newhouse.

Problem his, he'll need some playing time and he might not, from the get go, play on Newhouse's level, so we'll have to hope he'll actually see the field at all next season.
DakotaT  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, January 29, 2013 4:57:10 AM(UTC)
The only offensive lineman that has an automatic starting job is Sitton going into training camp. I would say we have a lot of weaknesses on our offensive line. But, when you take into account the amount of times the Packers go empty to get 5 wide out on the field - our line is put in a tough position.
Zero2Cool  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, January 29, 2013 6:40:47 AM(UTC)
RajiRoar said: Go to Quoted Post
AT LEAST half of the sacks are Rodgers' fault.. He holds the ball way too damn long.

Aaron Rodgers and Mike McCarthy do not help the line much at all.


9 out of 51 is half? Where did you get your public education at, North Dakota?
wpr  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, January 29, 2013 6:48:35 AM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
9 out of 51 is half? Where did you get your public education at, North Dakota?


I miss vr. Crying
PackerTraxx  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, January 29, 2013 7:26:03 AM(UTC)
The first thing that comes to my mind is that the numbers are skewed because the sacks usually come from the edge not the center of the line. So, as an example, Barclay with 14 may have actually done much better than Lang with 12. Without knowing who they're actually assigned to block it's impossible to tell.
DakotaT  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, January 29, 2013 7:54:41 AM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
9 out of 51 is half? Where did you get your public education at, North Dakota?


http://www.google.com/ur...mp;bvm=bv.41524429,d.b2I


Sorry Dumbass, ND ranks higher than any of the home states of the usual supects that denigrate me.
wpr  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, January 29, 2013 8:15:03 AM(UTC)
PackerTraxx said: Go to Quoted Post
The first thing that comes to my mind is that the numbers are skewed because the sacks usually come from the edge not the center of the line. So, as an example, Barclay with 14 may have actually done much better than Lang with 12. Without knowing who they're actually assigned to block it's impossible to tell.


Yep. Hard to tell. Were there stunts or twists that didn't get picked up? Was there 2 guys coming over OT? One to the inside and one to the outside? Was the RB/TE suppose to assist and he wasn't there?

Raw numbers don't mean a whole lot without the reviewing each play. Glad that is not my job.
olds70supreme  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, January 29, 2013 3:28:08 PM(UTC)
Also, this article only compares the Packers O-linemen, than draws the conclusion that they need new guys because some did worse than others. John Madden and I would be willing to go out on a limb (a fairly stout one though) and say that that is true of most any football team ever/anywhere. In short, it doesn't mean much if it isn't comparing them to other linemen in the league. Not to say the conclusion is wrong (because it may very well be correct), just that the method of reaching it isn't.
wpr  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, January 29, 2013 4:24:10 PM(UTC)
olds70supreme said: Go to Quoted Post
Also, this article only compares the Packers O-linemen, than draws the conclusion that they need new guys because some did worse than others. John Madden and I would be willing to go out on a limb (a fairly stout one though) and say that that is true of most any football team ever/anywhere. In short, it doesn't mean much if it isn't comparing them to other linemen in the league. Not to say the conclusion is wrong (because it may very well be correct), just that the method of reaching it isn't.


some of problems with amateur columnists. They don't typically have all the resources they need to substantiate their claims. Nor are they always as articulate as we would like them to be.

I usually pass up posting these kinds of articles but since we have been discussing the OL and draft needs I thought I would toss this one onto the pile.
porky88  
#12 Posted : Tuesday, January 29, 2013 5:39:31 PM(UTC)
This seems to place only an emphasis on pass protection and penalties. What about run blocking? Being a good pass protector does not equate to run blocking. The two aren't mutually exclusive. For example, Jeff Saturday was a bad run blocker this year. He couldn't get to the next level because he didn't move well. That's among the reasons they made the move to EDS. These figures paint a much brighter picture of Saturday.

There's no doubt Green Bay needs to improve the talent on the offensive line, but based on history, they have three starters that are competent or capable of playing at a high level. Those are T.J. Lang, Josh Sitton, and Bryan Bulaga. The latter was rock solid in 2011, and better than advertised this season with the exception of the Seattle game. That game leads to an inflated 16-game projection. Takeaway that game and Bulaga has a reasonable projection for a right tackle.

Identify the weakness and correct it. The weak link is center and especially left tackle. Many grade Newhouse on a curve for reasons that confuse me. In this offense, though, left tackle is the second most important position. That problem needs to be rectified.
Dulak  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, January 30, 2013 2:32:14 AM(UTC)
PackerTraxx said: Go to Quoted Post
The first thing that comes to my mind is that the numbers are skewed because the sacks usually come from the edge not the center of the line. So, as an example, Barclay with 14 may have actually done much better than Lang with 12. Without knowing who they're actually assigned to block it's impossible to tell.


ya I thought the same thing - most prime time rushers are those on the outside; really good DEs or OLBs - and those guys are all taking on a tackle (usually). Not that I dont think our Oline needs a look at.

Also as some has suggested we (rodgers) needs more practice at the quick drop off and not holding the ball too long ...

and maybe a better RB might help keep the teams off him a bit. Someone bigger that can block and can also run.
olds70supreme  
#14 Posted : Wednesday, January 30, 2013 6:36:47 AM(UTC)
Quote:
some of problems with amateur columnists. They don't typically have all the resources they need to substantiate their claims. Nor are they always as articulate as we would like them to be.

I usually pass up posting these kinds of articles but since we have been discussing the OL and draft needs I thought I would toss this one onto the pile.


Yeah, who am I kidding? I'll read anything and everything remotely Packer related from the end of the season until the start of the next.
nerdmann  
#15 Posted : Saturday, February 2, 2013 11:00:40 AM(UTC)
We're stacked at the position imo.

LT: Sherrod, Datko
LG: Lang, Barclay, Van Roten, EDS
C: Player to be acquired, Lang, EDS
RG: Sitton, Barclay. Van Roten, EDS
LT: Bulaga, Newhouse
wpr  
#16 Posted : Saturday, February 2, 2013 11:22:27 AM(UTC)
nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
We're stacked at the position imo.

LT: Sherrod, Newhouse, Datko- PS
LG: Lang, Barclay, EDS, Van Roten-PS
C: EDS, Player to be drafted, Lang
RG: Sitton, Barclay, EDS, Van Roten-PS
RT: Bulaga, Barclay, Newhouse


pretty close. I fixed it for you. Including having only one side listed as "LT" [grin1]
Wade  
#17 Posted : Saturday, February 9, 2013 10:06:16 AM(UTC)
nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
We're stacked at the position imo.

LT: Sherrod, Datko
LG: Lang, Barclay, Van Roten, EDS
C: Player to be acquired, Lang, EDS
RG: Sitton, Barclay. Van Roten, EDS
LT: Bulaga, Newhouse


Say whut?

Sitton is a stud.
Beyond that...

We're still operating primarily on the "potential" theory. The same thing that led people to say we were fine with false-start-Cliffie, that Lang had the potential to play OT, that Mrs. Colledge and Mark Spitz were going to be good enough, etc.

We have one stud, and a bunch of guys that are serviceable on their good days and are young enough that may have potential to develop into more.

We're stacked only in the poker sense of being short-stacked.

And we're hoping we can still beat Brunson, Moneymaker, and Ungar.

The only reason I"m not calling "OL OL OL" in my usual way is that, unfortunately, GB also has pretty serious needs on both DL and LB, too.

Wade  
#18 Posted : Saturday, February 9, 2013 10:07:11 AM(UTC)
Wade said: Go to Quoted Post
Say whut?

Sitton is a stud.
Beyond that...

We're still operating primarily on the "potential" theory. The same thing that led people to say we were fine with false-start-Cliffie, that Lang had the potential to play OT, that Mrs. Colledge and Mark Spitz were going to be good enough, etc.

We have one stud, and a bunch of guys that are serviceable on their good days and are young enough that may have potential to develop into more.

We're stacked only in the poker sense of being short-stacked.

And we're hoping we have undeveloped stars that will be able to beat Brunson, Moneymaker, and Ungar.

The only reason I"m not calling "OL OL OL" in my usual way is that, unfortunately, GB also has pretty serious needs on both DL and LB, too.



wpr  
#19 Posted : Saturday, February 9, 2013 11:59:27 AM(UTC)
Wade said: Go to Quoted Post


quoting your self with nothing new to add is a sign of sickness. [grin1]
DakotaT  
#20 Posted : Saturday, February 9, 2013 12:23:19 PM(UTC)
wpr said: Go to Quoted Post
quoting your self with nothing new to add is a sign of sickness. [grin1]


What's worse is when all he does is jazzes up what I said in another thread in the first place. [grin1] If I wanted to do creative writing, I'd make money at it, not waste it on my numbnut buddies.
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