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Offline dfosterf  
#1 Posted : Monday, April 1, 2013 6:24:07 PM(UTC)
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Dom Capers on his job status to Mike:


If you bastards could keep us off the field awhile maybe we would be better on defense


This line continues to suck. We have zip squat in the running game, our QB runs for his life, gets blamed for trying to make a play, etc.


IT SUCKS! Wade & I have been trying to tell you for years that it sucks- many get that part- but you don't realize how important it is, imo


http://www.packers.com/t...3-434b-8aa0-e6b67c649639 why is he still a coach?


We'd have won more superbowls if it did not, imo
We cannot aspire to greatness without an outstanding
offensive line.

This line sucks. Do you get how important this is?

Ted don't get 'em in FA (Saturday, lol) so he drafts 'em...

SF49ers did it effortlessly.

NOW anyone figuring out why I'm hatin' on Ted a little, lol?



WE NEED AN OFFENSIVE LINE THAT MATTERS. Get it? AHHHHHHHHH! Howlin' at the moon, yet again, lol

Message modified by user Monday, April 1, 2013 6:59:40 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

UserPostedImage
damn skippy I'm an owner. I currently own a full .00001924537805515393 % of the Green Bay Packers.



Offline Laser Gunns  
#2 Posted : Monday, April 1, 2013 7:25:40 PM(UTC)
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Line is not as big of problem as they are made out to be, 2 solid guards and a RT is pretty good. Saturday was a bust, no doubt. And Newhouse is not exactly tony moll, or Alan barbre.

Incompetent RBs, and McCarthy's play calling, are what is killing us.


MintBaconDrivel

Dec, 11, 2012 - FOREVER!
Offline dfosterf  
#3 Posted : Monday, April 1, 2013 7:39:14 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: RajiRoar Go to Quoted Post
Line is not as big of problem as they are made out to be, 2 solid guards and a RT is pretty good. Saturday was a bust, no doubt. And Newhouse is not exactly tony moll, or Alan barbre.

Incompetent RBs, and McCarthy's play calling, are what is killing us.


Show me the hole that the incompetent backs should have ran through the last 4 years. I submit that there has been no hole. Mike McCarthy is pulling a Dick Cheney. He will re-invent the friggin' hole he says he has, and he don't even have that.
UserPostedImage
damn skippy I'm an owner. I currently own a full .00001924537805515393 % of the Green Bay Packers.



Offline Zero2Cool  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, April 2, 2013 5:07:11 AM(UTC)
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lol dfosterf saying he read your stuff ... dude can't read ... hilarious April Fool's joke!!
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Offline play2win  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, April 2, 2013 5:07:32 AM(UTC)
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Our OL play has been at the very least suspect over the last few years. Especially last year. I believe it has WAY more to do with a poor C in Saturday and a HC who treats the running game as secondary in importance.

Make the run a more important part of your offense, just even out the pass/run ATT and even WITH Saturday we would have shown better. I think this is more on the coaching than anything. EDS to C or a new C altogether will be a huge improvement.

Really though, our greatest problem here is McCarthy.
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macbob on 4/3/2013(UTC)
Offline Laser Gunns  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, April 2, 2013 2:55:24 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dfosterf Go to Quoted Post
Show me the hole that the incompetent backs should have ran through the last 4 years. I submit that there has been no hole. Mike McCarthy is pulling a Dick Cheney. He will re-invent the friggin' hole he says he has, and he don't even have that.


Because finding 1 hole will prove me right?

Too easy. We have all seen the ignored cutback lanes. Do we have a mauler line? No. But there are plenty of oppourtunies that are left on the field.

Ryan Grant, Deshawn Wynn, Brandon Jackson, old Ahman Green, vernand Morency, James Starks, Alex Green, Cedric Benson.

Good list huh? There are the guys who (off the top of my head) we have started since 07.

How many of there guys are even on an NFL roster right now? I believe Jackson has had 1 lost season to IR, and not much else.

GB has devalued the RB position to the point where they believe that they can have sucsess by plugging in anybody they can put a uniform on. Which is not the case.
With the WR core losing depth, and the Oline being banged up, and our D full of holes, I'd like to see our picks spent elsewhere but at some point if we want to have a respectable running game we will need to invest in that position.



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Offline nerdmann  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, April 3, 2013 12:33:44 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: RajiRoar Go to Quoted Post
Because finding 1 hole will prove me right?

Too easy. We have all seen the ignored cutback lanes. Do we have a mauler line? No. But there are plenty of oppourtunies that are left on the field.

Ryan Grant, Deshawn Wynn, Brandon Jackson, old Ahman Green, vernand Morency, James Starks, Alex Green, Cedric Benson.

Good list huh? There are the guys who (off the top of my head) we have started since 07.

How many of there guys are even on an NFL roster right now? I believe Jackson has had 1 lost season to IR, and not much else.

GB has devalued the RB position to the point where they believe that they can have sucsess by plugging in anybody they can put a uniform on. Which is not the case.
With the WR core losing depth, and the Oline being banged up, and our D full of holes, I'd like to see our picks spent elsewhere but at some point if we want to have a respectable running game we will need to invest in that position.



Cedric Benson seemed like he was getting what was there every time. Starks was pretty good too. He could get to the corner.

As for Green, I thought he was learning to be patient playing off his blockers and to take what was there. My impression was that he learned alot from CedBen. Earlier in the season it seemed like he was trying to hit a home run on every play. He could still develop.

Starks too. He's a tall back, so he needs to run lower behind his pads in order to stay healthy.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline Wade  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, April 3, 2013 7:57:56 AM(UTC)
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Newhouse: Improving. But average. Potential for ...??
Lang: Plateaued. Daryn Colledge II. Average.
Dietrich-Smith: Plateaued. Jason Spitz II. Average.
Sitton: All pro.
Bulaga: Improving. But average. Potential there.

Backups:
Barclay: Improving. Below average with some potential.
Sherrod: Who knows?
Datko: Who knows? Just a guy at this point.
Van Roten: Who knows? Just a guy at this point.
Hughes: Who? Who knows?
Gerhart: Who? Who knows?

Have I missed someone?

This is good enough?????

Seriously????

You need more than average + potential in your starters. Average is for back-ups.

Everyone raves about Thompson in the draft. To me, there are three parts to Thompson in the draft:

Skill positions: A. Above average as a GM. Well above average, even.
Defensive front 7: B-. Average as a GM. Some home runs (Matthews), some potential-but-inconsistent (Raji), some not-bad, not-great (Hawk), some guys that are just guys.
Offensive line: C-. Below average as a GM. One ginormous home-run (Sitton).

If you look at just at what he's done at WR and QB, Thompson is Stan Musial. If you look just at what he's done at OL, he's Dave Kingman.





And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Offline Zero2Cool  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, April 3, 2013 8:03:59 AM(UTC)
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Packers haven't been back to the Super Bowl since Daryn Colledge was mistakenly not re-signed. Ted Thompson, my glare is aimed in your direction!
"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything." - Nikola Tesla

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thanks Post received 1 applause.
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Offline DakotaT  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, April 3, 2013 10:19:35 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dfosterf Go to Quoted Post


This line sucks. Do you get how important this is?

Ted don't get 'em in FA (Saturday, lol) so he drafts 'em...

SF49ers did it effortlessly.

NOW anyone figuring out why I'm hatin' on Ted a little, lol?



WE NEED AN OFFENSIVE LINE THAT MATTERS. Get it? AHHHHHHHHH! Howlin' at the moon, yet again, lol


Socrates, didn't San Francisco get most of their line with top 15 draft picks - if they did this effortlessly, then must have been dog shit for a long time. Your comparison is horrible but I agree with what you said. We've taken Bulaga and Sherrod with first rounders recently - it's unfair to say Ted Thompson isn't trying. I would like to see an interior O-lineman taken with a top pick preferable at center and who is very intelligent.
UserPostedImage
thanks Post received 2 applause.
QCHuskerFan on 4/3/2013(UTC), Rockmolder on 4/3/2013(UTC)
Offline QCHuskerFan  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, April 3, 2013 10:30:32 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
Packers haven't been back to the Super Bowl since Daryn Colledge was mistakenly not re-signed. Ted Thompson, my glare is aimed in your direction!


Made me laugh!!!!! Laughing
Offline Pack93z  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, April 3, 2013 11:00:20 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
Packers haven't been back to the Super Bowl since Daryn Colledge was mistakenly not re-signed. Ted Thompson, my glare is aimed in your direction!


You really must miss seeing Mrs. Colledge at the YMCA.. UserPostedImage
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

UserPostedImage
Offline Wade  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, April 3, 2013 1:32:11 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
Socrates, didn't San Francisco get most of their line with top 15 draft picks - if they did this effortlessly, then must have been dog shit for a long time. Your comparison is horrible but I agree with what you said. We've taken Bulaga and Sherrod with first rounders recently - it's unfair to say Ted Thompson isn't trying. I would like to see an interior O-lineman taken with a top pick preferable at center and who is very intelligent.


Trying isn't enough.

If you're going to have a personnel strategy that emphasizes draft to the extent that Ted's does you have to remember Mr. Miyagi:

"Try? There is no "try". Do. Or do not."

And Ted hasn't done the do.

Daryn Colledge was a 2nd round pick, too. But outside of of our fearless PH leader, whose affair with Mrs. Colledge must be on again, does anyone really think this was a winning pick?

Ted has drafted a lot of OL over his GB years. He's had one, count 'em, one, unquestionable success (Sitton). Bulaga and Sherrod have shown they have the potential....but so, ahem, did Colledge, Spitz, and Moll.



And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Offline Zero2Cool  
#14 Posted : Wednesday, April 3, 2013 1:46:32 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Wade Go to Quoted Post
Ted has drafted a lot of OL over his GB years. He's had one, count 'em, one, unquestionable success (Sitton). Bulaga and Sherrod have shown they have the potential....but so, ahem, did Colledge, Spitz, and Moll.


Ted Thompson has completed "Do".
OL Coach has completed "Do Not".

If you give someone 12 guns and they miss the target 20 yards away, you going to continue giving more guns or get someone who knows how to aim them better?
"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything." - Nikola Tesla

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Offline QCHuskerFan  
#15 Posted : Wednesday, April 3, 2013 2:08:31 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
Ted Thompson has completed "Do".
OL Coach has completed "Do Not".

If you give someone 12 guns and they miss the target 20 yards away, you going to continue giving more guns or get someone who knows how to aim them better?


Isn't the real answer bigger magazines?
Offline JustJeff  
#16 Posted : Friday, April 5, 2013 6:29:14 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dfosterf Go to Quoted Post
Show me the hole that the incompetent backs should have ran through the last 4 years. I submit that there has been no hole. Mike McCarthy is pulling a Dick Cheney. He will re-invent the friggin' hole he says he has, and he don't even have that.


This is not my work. It is from a member in my home forum. It is the perfect example of how NOT to run a stretch play. Enjoy.

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
UserPostedImage
Trips left against Nickel defense. DJ Williams motions from the left and looks like he's going to go across. Goes to H when no one motions with him.
UserPostedImage
See him at H and Crabtree lined up at WR.
UserPostedImage
Land and Sitton go for the DTs while Crabtree blocks down on the man on him. Bulaga and Williams pull right. Saturday and Newhouse go to backer. 4 players in the box no accounted for yet. Really only 3 because that backside DE isn't going to do anything.
UserPostedImage
The pitch is off and everyone is looking for a block or hit their mark already. Jones comes into the screen as the last player on the right. Safety looks like he's in position to make the play.
UserPostedImage
Bulaga takes out an unblocked defender (#4), Crabtree is still on his block, looks like Williams will go after defender #3 and Green will have the safety in open field.
UserPostedImage
And here we go.
UserPostedImage
Williams keeps pushing and there is a possible cutback lane for Green.
UserPostedImage
Williams has his guy and free Saturday can try to make a play on the S.
UserPostedImage
He gets him, Williams on block, and Crabtree on block still but defender #2 (non-playside backer) is free and is in position to make play.
UserPostedImage
And he gets him.


UserPostedImage
Offline Pack93z  
#17 Posted : Friday, April 5, 2013 6:34:32 AM(UTC)
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JustJeff... to me, that is more the edge blockers fault for not sealing than it is the backs fault on that example. Williams allowed the defender the get outside his shoulder and hold edge contain. This forces the back to stay flat and wait for something as a cutback lane to form.. poorly executed blocking. My opinion from those angles.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

UserPostedImage
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Offline JustJeff  
#18 Posted : Friday, April 5, 2013 6:42:04 AM(UTC)
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Williams keeps pushing and there is a possible cutback lane for Green.

This is a perfect example of how Brandon Jackson ran the stretch and why he never developed into a bell cow back he could have been.

Guys who got by with speed in college sometimes find it hard to learn to be patient. When we run an outside stretch, Green has to be more patient, has to read his blocks better and - most importantly - has to have the vision to see the cutback lanes. That is the bread-and-butter of the zbs. You take your short gains, but when a cutback presents itself, plant the foot and go.

On this play, Williams is engaged and has inside position, driving the LB toward the sideline. Crabtree has the inside sealed. Green's read at this point is to cut it back inside. If Green took it inside if Williams he has open field vs a safety who is eight yards high and inside. This was a HUGE play that didn't happen.
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Offline Pack93z  
#19 Posted : Friday, April 5, 2013 6:54:07 AM(UTC)
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Pop ahead to frames in these stills.. that cutback lane was filled.. this is not a great example of a missed opportunity by a back.. if anything it illustrates:

*A line that gets pushed back at the point of attack
* Poor edge blocking by the Packers
* And yes, a back that was too patient and didn't cut it up and take the minimal gain that might have been there.

UserPostedImage
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

UserPostedImage
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Offline JustJeff  
#20 Posted : Friday, April 5, 2013 7:13:08 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
Pop ahead to frames in these stills.. that cutback lane was filled.. this is not a great example of a missed opportunity by a back.. if anything it illustrates:

*A line that gets pushed back at the point of attack
* Poor edge blocking by the Packers
* And yes, a back that was too patient and didn't cut it up and take the minimal gain that might have been there.

UserPostedImage

That still shows that Green has discovered he isn't getting to the edge. At that point, he's sitting high with his weight back, of course the hole is filled. Jeff freakin' Saturday is outside by then Laughing

UserPostedImage
Williams has not yet engaged. The linebacker is two yards upfield. Williams correctly moves upfield. If he aims for an outside seal, he surrenders his inside shoulder. By the time he gets on the linebacker, he takes him the only angle he can. If you want to fault Williams for being outrun, I can agree. However, he executed a block that gave Green a seam, which Green didn't have the patience to see, much less take.

What is most telling in the stills is Green's gate. He's full throttle for the edge from the start. Great backs have a habit of running 3/4 speed while using their eyes and explode into the hole as it opens. Vision is everything.

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Offline Pack93z  
#21 Posted : Friday, April 5, 2013 7:15:25 AM(UTC)
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The attached image is where the play is truly broken down.. forces the back to make a major cut and really preventing the back from exploiting the edge quicker.. then Williams can't keep the edge and allows flow inside and over the top to close the play down.

There is no way that defender should have gotten that far up field.. again failure this is not a good example of a back blowing a play.. it was littered with problems from the snap. The back had to use vital time and vision just to avoid the immediate penetration into the backfield.
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I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline Pack93z  
#22 Posted : Friday, April 5, 2013 7:23:12 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: JustJeff Go to Quoted Post
That still shows that Green has discovered he isn't getting to the edge. At that point, he's sitting high with his weight back, of course the hole is filled. Jeff freakin' Saturday is outside by then Laughing

UserPostedImage
Williams has not yet engaged. The linebacker is two yards upfield. Williams correctly moves upfield. If he aims for an outside seal, he surrenders his inside shoulder. By the time he gets on the linebacker, he takes him the only angle he can. If you want to fault Williams for being outrun, I can agree. However, he executed a block that gave Green a seam, which Green didn't have the patience to see, much less take.

What is most telling in the stills is Green's gate. He's full throttle for the edge from the start. Great backs have a habit of running 3/4 speed while using their eyes and explode into the hole as it opens. Vision is everything.



If Williams holds the edge even then.. Green still can run off this outside shoulder and still have a one on one with the safety along the sideline.. but Williams fails to hold the edge.. forcing Green to break off momentum and start looking for a cutback.. again, I think he should have cut it up and taken what he could get, maybe a small gain. But again, properly blocked the Packers had the numbers and matchups to make that play pop off the edge.. piss poor execution (or very possibly communication in blocking pickups prior to the snap) in blocking that prevented the edge from being obtained.

That is how I see it from these angles.

Message modified by user Friday, April 5, 2013 7:40:39 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline nerdmann  
#23 Posted : Friday, April 5, 2013 10:08:03 AM(UTC)
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Green was learning to see those things better as the season went on imo. He was learning from Cedric.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#24 Posted : Friday, April 5, 2013 12:25:20 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: JustJeff Go to Quoted Post
This is not my work. It is from a member in my home forum. It is the perfect example of how NOT to run a stretch play. Enjoy.





Biggest problem with this play is that is never should have been run against that defensive formation. If that play was to get blocked correctly, it would leave DJ leading for Green at an unblocked FS. The problem is the MLB (#3) is already lined up play side of Saturday who would be responsible for blocking him. There is no way without a major mistake by the MLB, that Saturday or ANY C would be able to beat that MLB to the point of attack.

The result of that is DJ ends up having to block a LB instead of the safety as designed. DJ is not pushing his block outside. The defender is taking DJ outside to block the edge and force the cutback. Crabtree actually does a pretty good job considering his is single blocking a DE. But that DE is able to play off the block to make the play on the cutback.

I can't blame this on the Line or RB. The play was dead before it started. The play should have been checked to something else. The perfect play against it would have been to fake the toss and roll Rodgers out, have Jones come down like he did to block, only release upfield running past the crashing FS. With nobody behind him for help.
The world needs ditch diggers to Danny!!!
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Offline wpr  
#25 Posted : Friday, April 5, 2013 12:44:04 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
Biggest problem with this play is that is never should have been run against that defensive formation. If that play was to get blocked correctly, it would leave DJ leading for Green at an unblocked FS. The problem is the MLB (#3) is already lined up play side of Saturday who would be responsible for blocking him. There is no way without a major mistake by the MLB, that Saturday or ANY C would be able to beat that MLB to the point of attack.

The result of that is DJ ends up having to block a LB instead of the safety as designed. DJ is not pushing his block outside. The defender is taking DJ outside to block the edge and force the cutback. Crabtree actually does a pretty good job considering his is single blocking a DE. But that DE is able to play off the block to make the play on the cutback.

I can't blame this on the Line or RB. The play was dead before it started. The play should have been checked to something else. The perfect play against it would have been to fake the toss and roll Rodgers out, have Jones come down like he did to block, only release upfield running past the crashing FS. With nobody behind him for help.


WHAT!!!??? And be accused of being a stat whore trying to break Favre's records? Weeeee!!

There is no way Aaron Rodgers is falling for that trap. Not talking
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