nerdmann
10 years ago

I don't like how strict this philosophy is. It means there is more pressure put on young, inexperienced players to fill important gaps in our roster, and the "need" factor then becomes more in play on draft day. At least, it seems that way.

Will we pass on a top WR to fill a DL need this draft in R1? Maybe. Maybe not. Nab that WR and your DL need is still unaddressed going into the 2nd day of the draft. Now, you maybe reach on a day two player to fill a hole, hoping he will not only start, but be a difference maker, where you really need one.

There is risk with this philosophy that could make us miss out on top talent, both in FA and in the draft.

Originally Posted by: play2win 



For every Albert Haynesworth that Ted passes over, he signs a DuJuan Harris, Dez Moses, Sam Shields. Even an Erik Walden or a Harold Green. Part of the system is that you have great talent evaluators, who are capable of assessing value.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
10 years ago

I was being just a bit of a smart @ss. But there are times when it seems like the team fails to use every method available to them because they are a "draft and develop" team.

It is really impossible to have every spot on the roster filled with depth backing up all the starters. Sometimes it is better to have the drafted players backing up and one day taking the place of a UFA that they signed.

Then again I have wondered if GB is content with winning the division and being in the playoffs on a consistent basis or spending more money and being a serious contender for a SB.

I could live with a team that was in the SB every 5 years and then had to tear the team down and rebuilt making it back 5 years later over a team that went 11-5 or 10-6 every single year, year after year, only to lose in the playoffs in either round 1 or 2.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



I agree. I *hate* it when the team loses playoff games.

Especially at home. Remember when the Packers simply did not lose in the playoffs at home?

Actually, I wonder if there is some correlation between this overly (IMO) skewed reliance on draft-and-develop-the-potential approach and the Packers less than stellar "home field advantage" in the Thompson/McCarthy era.


And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
10 years ago

For every Albert Haynesworth that Ted passes over, he signs a DuJuan Harris, Dez Moses, Sam Shields. Even an Erik Walden or a Harold Green. Part of the system is that you have great talent evaluators, who are capable of assessing value.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



Except, in my opinion, with respect to the OL.

Take away the out-of-the-park-HR that was Josh Sitton, and this personnel department can only seem to find "potential" and "serviceable" on the OL.


And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Zero2Cool
10 years ago

Except, in my opinion, with respect to the OL.

Take away the out-of-the-park-HR that was Josh Sitton, and this personnel department can only seem to find "potential" and "serviceable" on the OL.

Originally Posted by: Wade 



I will continue to put blame on the OL coach instead of Ted Thompson. Packers have drafted a lot of OL over the years ... a lot.
UserPostedImage
steveishere
10 years ago


I could live with a team that was in the SB every 5 years and then had to tear the team down and rebuilt making it back 5 years later over a team that went 11-5 or 10-6 every single year, year after year, only to lose in the playoffs in either round 1 or 2.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



Except that isn't how it works and no you wouldn't be content with that anyways. Look at all of the people who are discontent now because we haven't won the Superbowl in just 2 years. The teams that have the best chance at winning the Superbowl are the ones that are more consistent with their roster and stay competitive year after year. It does take a lot of luck to get through a playoff run and win the Superbowl and trying to bet it all on 1 season every few years is the dumbest way to go about it.
play2win
10 years ago
Breno Giacomini would have been good to keep around. I do not understand how they could let a guy like that walk. He is exactly what we could use now. Started all 16 games at RT last year for the Seahawks. We could be switching Bulaga to LT and save a pick there.
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
10 years ago

Except that isn't how it works and no you wouldn't be content with that anyways. Look at all of the people who are discontent now because we haven't won the Superbowl in just 2 years. The teams that have the best chance at winning the Superbowl are the ones that are more consistent with their roster and stay competitive year after year. It does take a lot of luck to get through a playoff run and win the Superbowl and trying to bet it all on 1 season every few years is the dumbest way to go about it.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



Thank you for telling me how I feel. Until reading this I did not know. [palm]

I am content. Would I like a SB this year? Sure. Who wouldn't? Do I demand it or think that the team is a failure? No. Am I disappointed at the lack of effort to pick up QUALITY FAs to fill some of those needs? Sure I am.

Of course my "5 year plan" doesn't work exactly as I illustrated. It is only a hypothetical example. They need to go get the guys required to fill the gaps are there and stop trying to use bubble gum and duct tape. Waiting 2, 3 or 4 years for someone to grow up and fill a position only leads to more holes elsewhere during that time period.

Once again you totally miss the point. I am not saying go "Phillie" and grab 12 high priced FAs this year then sit back and dismantle the team next year. I said pick up a QUALITY player or two to fill a gap. (every team has them.) Become a playoff winning caliber team not a team that only wins against weak competition during the season then folds when the pressure is on. In my example I am saying if the worse case scenario is that you end up with 4 off years and one SB winning championship year and that cycle repeats every 5 years WITH CHAMPIONSHIPS the fans would except it. even you. In reality why would a team totally fall apart? It wouldn't.
UserPostedImage
Zero2Cool
10 years ago

I said pick up a QUALITY player or two to fill a gap. (every team has them.)

Originally Posted by: wpr 



Problem with that is the Packers aren't a player or two away from being a certain Super Bowl contender. They can't afford to gamble over paying for tier 2 talent with a tier 1 salary because they have quite a few players to re-sign themselves. It's easier to groom a new to NFL player to your methods and teachings than it is to grab a player that's been in a different system for X years. You then have to break them of their habits.

I don't think free agency yields enough reward for the risk.


UserPostedImage
play2win
10 years ago

Problem with that is the Packers aren't a player or two away from being a certain Super Bowl contender. They can't afford to gamble over paying for tier 2 talent with a tier 1 salary because they have quite a few players to re-sign themselves. It's easier to groom a new to NFL player to your methods and teachings than it is to grab a player that's been in a different system for X years. You then have to break them of their habits.

I don't think free agency yields enough reward for the risk.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



I don't think he is saying they are only one or two players away from winning a Championship, just that one or two FAs of high quality can help you to get there, taking pressure off of key areas that you normally fill with draft picks. For instance, we had a couple of scenarios where we had high calibre DTs, DEs, RBs and Ss looking for a new team this offseason. We didn't really play, so they went elsewhere. I would have loved to get one of them, maybe two of them, to allow a bit more freedom this draft, insuring our roster was truly complete.

We have so many holes, some bigger than others at some real need positions on this roster. One or two FA signings could have helped. They still may.
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
10 years ago

Breno Giacomini would have been good to keep around. I do not understand how they could let a guy like that walk. He is exactly what we could use now. Started all 16 games at RT last year for the Seahawks. We could be switching Bulaga to LT and save a pick there.

Originally Posted by: play2win 



Methinks you may be committing the Daryl Colledge fallacy here. Colledge has started how many games in his career. How many games has he looked, for GB or for St. Louis, like a *good* starter.

Seattle looked good last year. How good did Giacomini look? Did he look more like Daryn Colledge in his "prime," or did he look more like, oh, I dunno, Steve Hutchinson or Alan Faneca in theirs.

Or, perhaps a better example, how much did he look like a Sitton and how much did he look like Colledge?

(As an aside, I don't think Bulaga has proved himself an exception to the general level of mediocrity in the Thompson/McCarthy/Campen era just yet. He might. The "potential" argument still has enough oomph it it for me to be cautiously optimistic. But he's not where we need a RT, much less a LT, to be just yet.)


And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Fan Shout
dfosterf (6h) : For the record, I enjoy Beast and Mucky drafts
Zero2Cool (13h) : Haha
Mucky Tundra (14h) : No time for talking! Back to work beast!
beast (14h) : You saw only 4,201 of my mocks? 🥺 I think that means you missed more than half of them 😢
dfosterf (18h) : Does anyone know what Lambeau field improvements got put on hold? My guess would be for the 2025 draft
Zero2Cool (20h) : It's like listen, you made 4,201 mocks, no shit.
Zero2Cool (20h) : Cuz during the draft "I had them mocked there!" as if it's amazing.
Zero2Cool (20h) : They're fun to do once in awhile. It's people who think they are "content" that annoy me.
dfosterf (20h) : Against tbd
dfosterf (20h) : Answer to your question is yes, it's a Thursday, will be the Chiefs aga
dfosterf (20h) : Luckily for all concerned, I don't post them. I did one, but that was like 25 mocks ago
Zero2Cool (20h) : NFL 2024 gonna start Sept 5th isn't it???
Zero2Cool (20h) : Ugh... kids these days!
dfosterf (20h) : I'm gonna go do some more mock draft hell instead 🤪
Zero2Cool (20h) : Did we do one of those prediction threads yet for 2024 season?
dfosterf (21h) : In my city, they are playing the nimby game, in order to keep some railroad tracks vs. 2 professional sports teams and a concert venue.
dfosterf (21h) : And/Or a city council, of which I haven't seen a good one in a very long time
dfosterf (21h) : That sounds like a Mayor, not a city.
buckeyepackfan (26-Mar) : Packers halt scheduled 80mil upgrade of stadium until lease agreement talks are restarted
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : City of Green Bay puts Packers' Lambeau Field lease talks on hold
buckeyepackfan (26-Mar) : Packers 1 of 3 teams to vote no on new kickoff rule.
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Packers sign another Kicker
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Lengthy explanation at PFF if you click the link
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Kickoff rules officially changed.ngthy explan
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : lol
Cheesey (26-Mar) : 2009? No thanks! One open heart surgery is enough!
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Good for you!
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Yes. That's the one.
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Is that "Lady Dugan" per chance?
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Crystal?
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Please refresh my memory
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Alan posts. Crystal back in my life. It's 2009 all over again! Lol
Mucky Tundra (26-Mar) : BAH GAWD! THAT'S CHEESEYS MUSIC!
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Gutekunst said early stages of Jordan Love contract being discussed.
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Shouldn't be penalized cuz official screwed up
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Yeah, challenge until you are incorrect twice.
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Fining them is the goal, per the people who made the rule anyway.
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Still waiting on the kickoff rule changes. Did hear yesterday that the touchback proposal will now be the 30 yard line, not the 35
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Probably speed of game issues with your proposal
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Hopefully the refs don't get in the habit of throwing flags on this
beast (25-Mar) : I think when it comes to Challenges should get two strikes, so unlimited challenges as long as they keep winning them, but 2 wrong then done
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Still subject to the fines etc
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Yes, I should have been more specific. Also, they are now saying it would be a 15 yard penalty. That makes more sense .
beast (25-Mar) : Simply fined in the week to follow
beast (25-Mar) : I agree with one NFL official, it'll probably be like some of the helmets hits, not really called by the refs on the field but simply fined
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Hip drop is not. Super confusing. Referees job is harder
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Swivel hip drop is banned
dfosterf (25-Mar) : The hip drop enforcement will be in the form of fines, etc. Not flags
dfosterf (25-Mar) : A major foul will be enforced on the offense if there are offsetting penalties in a change of possession situation
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Teams will receive a 3rd challenge if 1 was successful. Previously, it took 2
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2023 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 10 @ 3:25 PM
Bears
Sunday, Sep 17 @ 12:00 PM
Falcons
Sunday, Sep 24 @ 12:00 PM
SAINTS
Thursday, Sep 28 @ 7:15 PM
LIONS
Monday, Oct 9 @ 7:15 PM
Raiders
Sunday, Oct 22 @ 3:25 PM
Broncos
Sunday, Oct 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Nov 5 @ 12:00 PM
RAMS
Sunday, Nov 12 @ 12:00 PM
Steelers
Sunday, Nov 19 @ 12:00 PM
CHARGERS
Thursday, Nov 23 @ 11:30 AM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 3 @ 7:20 PM
CHIEFS
Monday, Dec 11 @ 7:15 PM
Giants
Sunday, Dec 17 @ 12:00 PM
BUCCANEERS
Sunday, Dec 24 @ 12:00 PM
Panthers
Sunday, Dec 31 @ 7:20 PM
Vikings
Sunday, Jan 7 @ 3:25 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Jan 14 @ 3:30 PM
Cowboys
Saturday, Jan 20 @ 7:15 PM
49ers
Recent Topics
6h / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

6h / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

6h / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

13h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

18h / Random Babble / Zero2Cool

27-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

26-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

26-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

26-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

25-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

25-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

24-Mar / Around The NFL / dhazer

24-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

24-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

22-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2024 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.