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buckeyepackfan  
#21 Posted : Wednesday, June 19, 2013 3:02:12 PM(UTC)


ESPN reporting Bishop will visit with K.C tomorrow.

dhazer  
#22 Posted : Wednesday, June 19, 2013 7:03:11 PM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
Hey for you buddy, anytime! :) I am with you on the NFC North being a very solid division, probably the second most difficult to win in the NFL. I think Detroit will win a few games people expect them to lose, same with the Vikings. The Bears could surprise some. I'm a little worried with not hearing anything about them. Kinda like your kids, when they quiet, you get nervous, lol.

I'm back in Green Bay (as of Jan 2012, thanks for paying attention) so we already get all the games for your know what. :P



Detroit added a starting caliber RB thus we forget and like I said if their defense stops being stupid they will be strong. And for the person saying minnesota don't have a mlb and a DE cmon please like we have any of them? Our defense is just plain bad as it has been except for one year since Capers took over. Sure we drafted RB's but when did we get an o-line that can block?

BTW Kevin I was referring to the Monday and Thursday games for others.

I think we will sneak by and win the division but it wouldn't surprise me if one of the others beat us out.
Zero2Cool  
#23 Posted : Wednesday, June 19, 2013 7:22:09 PM(UTC)
dhazer said: Go to Quoted Post
Detroit added a starting caliber RB thus we forget and like I said if their defense stops being stupid they will be strong. And for the person saying minnesota don't have a mlb and a DE cmon please like we have any of them? Our defense is just plain bad as it has been except for one year since Capers took over. Sure we drafted RB's but when did we get an o-line that can block?

BTW Kevin I was referring to the Monday and Thursday games for others.

I think we will sneak by and win the division but it wouldn't surprise me if one of the others beat us out.


Who is forgetting about Reggie Bush? Does he add a solid dimension to their Megatron focused offense? Yes.

I think they will be solid opponents, as is every divisional game ... I just don't put NFC North better than NFC West. Can't do it. Won't do it.
go.pack.go.  
#24 Posted : Wednesday, June 19, 2013 8:03:35 PM(UTC)
I'm not sure how I feel about our inside linebacker position outside of AJ Hawk. Brad Jones is decent, but I don't know if I really like him all that much as a starter. He didn't do too bad filling in last year. But who is behind him? Nobody that has proven themselves...
Rockmolder  
#25 Posted : Thursday, June 20, 2013 8:37:56 AM(UTC)
Let me go ahead and play a little Devil's advocate in this thread, because the optimism is getting way out of hand here.

Dexter_Sinister said: Go to Quoted Post
Must be you. Because I don't think so.

I like the opponents wasting roster spots for old washed up players and overpriced overrated FAs.

There is a reason the Bears have had 5 #1 Draft picks in the last 8 years. Wasting the few they have left on project guys and specialty role players. Like Long and McClellin.

Cutler is a mediocre QB with a big arm. He has a crappy rating over 10 yards. What good is a big arm if you can't hit the broad side of a barn. From the inside. He cost them 2 firsts and a huge cap hit. They could have used 1 to draft a mediocre QB and been ahead by a 1st round pick.

Marshall is inefficient. He cost them 2 thirds and a huge cap hit. He is 40% of their passing game. That is more than Jones and Cobb together are for the Packers. While Jones and Cobb put up 22 TDs, Marshall only put up 11.

Bert Facre didn't do much for the Vikings. In 2009, they had the 2nd easiest schedule in Viking history. In 2010, they had a tough schedule. When the real Facre showed up.

Greg is a great guy and a great player. I hope he does well and stays healthy. But it has been years since he has.
I hope that Bishop goes to the Vikings. We could use another slow defender in coverage for our offense to face.

As far as the Vikings draft picks, I think they were 2 for 3. They wasted a lot of picks for a project WR who runs crappy routes and has questionable hands. Fast, stupid and can't catch. Sounds like Hester.


The Bears' drafting has been awful the last few years and Long is a project, maybe even a reach at 20, but they had one of the best drafts in the league after that 1st rounder.

If Long does pan out, everyone will be calling them geniusses. Especially if guys like Bostic, Greene and Washington work out the way they should.

Cutler isn't a great QB, he's nowhere near the elite level, but I wouldn't call him mediocre, either. He's just a guy who needs a supporting cast. He's just like Palmer, not going to carry a team, but when you put the pieces in place, they produce.

Don't forget that it's not that long ago when people wondered whether Rodgers or Cutler was the superior QB.

Marshall was expensive, but how much would two 2nd rounders really net you? Certainly not something of equal talent. I agree that they have a lot of money tied up in players like Marshall and Peppers, but Marshall's an amazing receiver and superior to anyone who we have on the roster. That TD stat is nice, but that doesn't take into account his 118 catches and 1500 yards. Calvin Johnson had just 5 TDs, but that doesn't tell me anything by its own, really.

Favre did face a weak schedule with the Vikes that year, but he just played lights-out, as well. That game against the Saints wasn't against a weak team and the only reason they didn't won that, was because of Adrian "Butterfingers" Peterson. Favre threw a very, very bad pick at the end, but that would've been an easy win, had Peterson not fumbled 39 times in one game.

Greg was overpriced and overrated, but he is an improvement over anything they have and they will be more dangerous on offense for it.

I don't see how Cordarrelle Patterson would be a wasted pick. The guy had enough upside and talent to be a top 5 players, but he's raw. Taking a chance on him at 29 was a great choice. I wouldn't have minded if the Packers drafted him with their pick before that.

That said, I do think that the Packers are the team to beat, but the Bears, Vikes and Lions aren't as far behind as everyone here seems to think. Yes, they have holes, but so do we. There's not a single team in the league that doesn't have them. We'll see how it plays out, but we're not going to be running away with the division and I don't see us going 6-0 in the NFCN.
warhawk  
#26 Posted : Thursday, June 20, 2013 10:38:19 AM(UTC)
Rockmolder said: Go to Quoted Post
Let me go ahead and play a little Devil's advocate in this thread, because the optimism is getting way out of hand here.



The Bears' drafting has been awful the last few years and Long is a project, maybe even a reach at 20, but they had one of the best drafts in the league after that 1st rounder.

If Long does pan out, everyone will be calling them geniusses. Especially if guys like Bostic, Greene and Washington work out the way they should.

Cutler isn't a great QB, he's nowhere near the elite level, but I wouldn't call him mediocre, either. He's just a guy who needs a supporting cast. He's just like Palmer, not going to carry a team, but when you put the pieces in place, they produce.

Don't forget that it's not that long ago when people wondered whether Rodgers or Cutler was the superior QB.

Marshall was expensive, but how much would two 2nd rounders really net you? Certainly not something of equal talent. I agree that they have a lot of money tied up in players like Marshall and Peppers, but Marshall's an amazing receiver and superior to anyone who we have on the roster. That TD stat is nice, but that doesn't take into account his 118 catches and 1500 yards. Calvin Johnson had just 5 TDs, but that doesn't tell me anything by its own, really.

Favre did face a weak schedule with the Vikes that year, but he just played lights-out, as well. That game against the Saints wasn't against a weak team and the only reason they didn't won that, was because of Adrian "Butterfingers" Peterson. Favre threw a very, very bad pick at the end, but that would've been an easy win, had Peterson not fumbled 39 times in one game.

Greg was overpriced and overrated, but he is an improvement over anything they have and they will be more dangerous on offense for it.

I don't see how Cordarrelle Patterson would be a wasted pick. The guy had enough upside and talent to be a top 5 players, but he's raw. Taking a chance on him at 29 was a great choice. I wouldn't have minded if the Packers drafted him with their pick before that.

That said, I do think that the Packers are the team to beat, but the Bears, Vikes and Lions aren't as far behind as everyone here seems to think. Yes, they have holes, but so do we. There's not a single team in the league that doesn't have them. We'll see how it plays out, but we're not going to be running away with the division and I don't see us going 6-0 in the NFCN.


What will two 2nd rounders net you? Two starters or at the very least some quality depth. The factor most people don't consider is team depth. Sure, starting the season most teams look strong and maybe stronger than the previous year but the lineup by game 8 from game 1 is going to be very different.
Chicago screwed the pooch by not winning it all when they gave up all these picks to grab these guys that was supposed to carry the team. You start giving up #1's and 3's like that and your depth goes to hell.
Last years injury plague will be this years blessing as several guys were called on and got significant PT. Now some like Barclay and Moses among others may end up being backups again but they will be better than they were a year ago as well as the young DB's that were virtually thrown in the fire and responded, I thought, very well.
Adding Jones in and getting Perry back again means more depth there a well. I look forward to seeing Jones, Ragi, and Neal in there with Mathews blowing up from the outside. With outstanding depth at the CB position that carries over to the nickel packages I can see a defense that can avoid those three or four games that were a disaster last year.
It would be nice if for once we didn't lose important starters for the whole damn season. Injuries will happen, however, and I see the Packers withstanding that with the replacements in line because many will have had the opportunity in the past and will benefit from the experience.
Your either deep or your lucky. We got bounced by SF last year who had every OL starter for the entire season. Now that's not heard of and doesn't happen often. You can't bank on luck though and I think the Packers have it pretty well covered. The North as a whole may start out looking fairly even but I would say when reality sets in and guys go down and the IR list grows for all teams, IF the numbers are fairly equal, the Packers will prevail.





nerdmann  
#27 Posted : Thursday, June 20, 2013 11:02:56 AM(UTC)
warhawk said: Go to Quoted Post
What will two 2nd rounders net you? Two starters or at the very least some quality depth. The factor most people don't consider is team depth. Sure, starting the season most teams look strong and maybe stronger than the previous year but the lineup by game 8 from game 1 is going to be very different.
Chicago screwed the pooch by not winning it all when they gave up all these picks to grab these guys that was supposed to carry the team. You start giving up #1's and 3's like that and your depth goes to hell.
Last years injury plague will be this years blessing as several guys were called on and got significant PT. Now some like Barclay and Moses among others may end up being backups again but they will be better than they were a year ago as well as the young DB's that were virtually thrown in the fire and responded, I thought, very well.
Adding Jones in and getting Perry back again means more depth there a well. I look forward to seeing Jones, Ragi, and Neal in there with Mathews blowing up from the outside. With outstanding depth at the CB position that carries over to the nickel packages I can see a defense that can avoid those three or four games that were a disaster last year.
It would be nice if for once we didn't lose important starters for the whole damn season. Injuries will happen, however, and I see the Packers withstanding that with the replacements in line because many will have had the opportunity in the past and will benefit from the experience.
Your either deep or your lucky. We got bounced by SF last year who had every OL starter for the entire season. Now that's not heard of and doesn't happen often. You can't bank on luck though and I think the Packers have it pretty well covered. The North as a whole may start out looking fairly even but I would say when reality sets in and guys go down and the IR list grows for all teams, IF the numbers are fairly equal, the Packers will prevail.







Lovey Smith was making these trades to try to save his job for years. Julius Peppers, Jay Cutler, Brandon Marshall, etc.

Desperation moves that didn't pan out.
Zero2Cool  
#28 Posted : Thursday, June 20, 2013 11:09:24 AM(UTC)
nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
Lovey Smith was making these trades to try to save his job for years. Julius Peppers, Jay Cutler, Brandon Marshall, etc.

Desperation moves that didn't pan out.


What did they give up in trade for Julius Peppers and Brandon Marshall?

nerdmann  
#29 Posted : Thursday, June 20, 2013 11:18:10 AM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
What did they give up in trade for Julius Peppers and Brandon Marshall?



Fuck if I know, why were they free agents?

Point being, they were desperation moves. And they panned out as well as most desperation moves do.
Dexter_Sinister  
#30 Posted : Thursday, June 20, 2013 6:55:40 PM(UTC)
Rockmolder said: Go to Quoted Post
Let me go ahead and play a little Devil's advocate in this thread, because the optimism is getting way out of hand here.



The Bears' drafting has been awful the last few years and Long is a project, maybe even a reach at 20, but they had one of the best drafts in the league after that 1st rounder.

If Long does pan out, everyone will be calling them geniusses. Especially if guys like Bostic, Greene and Washington work out the way they should.

Cutler isn't a great QB, he's nowhere near the elite level, but I wouldn't call him mediocre, either. He's just a guy who needs a supporting cast. He's just like Palmer, not going to carry a team, but when you put the pieces in place, they produce.

Don't forget that it's not that long ago when people wondered whether Rodgers or Cutler was the superior QB.

Marshall was expensive, but how much would two 2nd rounders really net you? Certainly not something of equal talent. I agree that they have a lot of money tied up in players like Marshall and Peppers, but Marshall's an amazing receiver and superior to anyone who we have on the roster. That TD stat is nice, but that doesn't take into account his 118 catches and 1500 yards. Calvin Johnson had just 5 TDs, but that doesn't tell me anything by its own, really.

Favre did face a weak schedule with the Vikes that year, but he just played lights-out, as well. That game against the Saints wasn't against a weak team and the only reason they didn't won that, was because of Adrian "Butterfingers" Peterson. Favre threw a very, very bad pick at the end, but that would've been an easy win, had Peterson not fumbled 39 times in one game.

Greg was overpriced and overrated, but he is an improvement over anything they have and they will be more dangerous on offense for it.

I don't see how Cordarrelle Patterson would be a wasted pick. The guy had enough upside and talent to be a top 5 players, but he's raw. Taking a chance on him at 29 was a great choice. I wouldn't have minded if the Packers drafted him with their pick before that.

That said, I do think that the Packers are the team to beat, but the Bears, Vikes and Lions aren't as far behind as everyone here seems to think. Yes, they have holes, but so do we. There's not a single team in the league that doesn't have them. We'll see how it plays out, but we're not going to be running away with the division and I don't see us going 6-0 in the NFCN.


I have thought Cutler was a million dollar arm and a 10 cent head since he was in Denver. I said Rodgers had the potential to be best ever in '07. I have alwasy thought every one who said Cutler was great was wrong. His passer rating over 10 yards is horrible. He gets fooled and can't recover. He just isn't very good and the hype didn't make him better than he is. So I really don't care what people have though of him.

Marshall is exceptionally over rated. Probably the 40th best WR in the league if you go by per catch. He was 40% of the Bears passing offense. More than Jones and Cobb were together. Brandon only scored 11 TDs. Jones and Cobb scored 22. We have 3 WRs that out produce Marshall per catch. It is better to spread it around than to have a guy like Marshall getting 200 targets. If any of our WRs got 200 targets, they would break records. The difference is, Johnson averaged over 10 a year before last year. Marshall averaged about 6 while getting the same number of targets.

If I were the Bears, I would be most concerned about the Pass D without Urlacher. Specially against Rodgers.

They ranked Patterson for his running ability. Not his pass catching. He is a body catcher who runs bad routes. It hasn't worked for Hester. He may be a better return guy than WR. Project guys are not bad. First round project guys are a lot invested in a gamble. Specially for the number of draft picks they gave up. When their biggest issue is depth.

Favre didn't play lights out. He played extremely conservative during their win streak. He started taking over more late in the year, when they went 2-3 going into the playoffs. Favre was really lucky on dropped INTs to help build the mystique. The SF game had one right before the miracle pass. Favre hit a DB right between the numbers and he dropped it. Next play, game winner.

They really only played one healthy team over .500 and got smoked. The Packers were down to 5th string CBs. The Bengals had collapsed and were nothing like they were earlier in the year.

Peterson had 0 turnovers and Favre had 3. One of Peterson's fumbles was for a first down so it wasn't even a momentum breaker.
Dexter_Sinister  
#31 Posted : Thursday, June 20, 2013 7:01:12 PM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
What did they give up in trade for Julius Peppers and Brandon Marshall?



I think Peppers was a FA and Marshall was two 3rd round draft picks.
warhawk  
#32 Posted : Friday, June 21, 2013 9:48:35 AM(UTC)
They also gave up their 1st in '09 and ''10 plus a 3rd in '09 and received a 5th in the Cutler deal.
The loss of those picks, in part, perpetuated the need to get some of these other guys in there to help Cutler win.

With all the high end contracts and lack of picks they had to fill the balance of the roster with low end salary players that COULD have been picks that would have probably given them a stronger overall 53.
Dexter_Sinister  
#33 Posted : Friday, June 21, 2013 2:09:36 PM(UTC)
warhawk said: Go to Quoted Post
They also gave up their 1st in '09 and ''10 plus a 3rd in '09 and received a 5th in the Cutler deal.
The loss of those picks, in part, perpetuated the need to get some of these other guys in there to help Cutler win.

With all the high end contracts and lack of picks they had to fill the balance of the roster with low end salary players that COULD have been picks that would have probably given them a stronger overall 53.


This is also why we shouldn't chase big name FAs.

Stick with the nobodies.
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