Pack93z
10 years ago

Of course.. "Sources"... I am tired of nameless sources.. MLB.. if you want to minimize the damages.. then truly get out in front of this and release the documents and announce the rest of the suspensions.. otherwise the jokers in the media are going to continue with the nameless "sources".


ESPN's T.J. Quinn has tweeted that "sources tell OTL (Outside the Lines) Braun relationship with Bosch began in summer '11 months before testing positive. RB was on PED regimen for high-end clients."

Quinn, of course, is referring to Brewers leftfielder Ryan Braun and former Biogenesis clinic operator Tony Bosch, who apparently provided overwhelming evidence to Major League Baseball that Braun bought performance-enhancing drugs from him.

Faced with that evidence, Braun on Monday accepted a season-ending suspension that covered the final 65 games of the season. That announcement came with a vague apology by Braun acknowledging he made "mistakes" but did not mention PED use.

So, OTL's sources tell them that Braun began his relationship with Bosch in the summer of 2011. It was in October of that year, at the start of the playoffs, that Braun tested positive for elevated levels of synthetic testosterone. He had that drug test overturned on appeal on a chain-of-custody issue that MLB considered a technicality.

While stopping short of saying the evidence showed Braun bought synthetic testosterone from Bosch, Quinn supplied a copy of a Biogenesis document  that he says sources indicate was written by Bosch for "PEDs for clients like Braun and A-Rod." A-Rod, of course, is New York Yankees third baseman Alex Rodriguez. And the specific PEDs referred to here are testosterone troches.

Testosterone troches are lozenges that you can place under your tongue to induce synthetic testosterone into your system. The document produced by OTL goes to the detail of saying they were "mint or cherry-flavored."

Troches are but one way to elevate your testosterone levels without receiving an injection. You can also apply synthetic testosterone topically with creams and gels applied to your skin. With these methods, the synthetic testosterone can cycle in and out of your body quickly, meaning a drug test likely would have to be taken very soon to be detected.

JSOnline  wrote:




Oh by the way.. on Rodgers being tied into this.. just more fodder for the media to toy with... albeit it seems that Rodgers misjudged the word of his friend.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"

To me it does... why.. because if he carried out his statements last spring training with full knowledge that he was guilty all along, my opinion is 65 games is not enough. He didn't just say that he was innocent, he openly and defiantly challenged the integrity of others openly, the testing process and the game itself.

I see no reason that MLB doesn't release their findings in this.. let the facts present themselves. Asked for no less from day one.. and MLB has said that is what they were doing with this investigation. Well then.. present them so we the direct and indirect fund source of the game to know the facts.

In such a public game in which we openly talk about their contracts, events in the ball players lives.. then why not show us the ugly side of the game. How the cheats cheated... or what exactly what they are guilty of.

Could it also prove not to be as damning to Braun.. possibly but doubtful. But the next time I see him play ball in Miller Park.. I certainly want to know the facts of his guilt.

Originally Posted by: Pack93z 



I understand. In this country we tend to expect our judicial system to be opaque.

I think MLB was set to give him more than 65 games but the legal hassle would have drawn it out longer so they opted for a plea bargain arraignment. He does 65 games and drops his defense. They don't bust him for more.

A 1 1/2 suspension or even a lifetime ban would not help the Brewers at all other than to recover some of the money they have tied up.
UserPostedImage
Pack93z
10 years ago

I understand. In this country we tend to expect our judicial system to be opaque.

I think MLB was set to give him more than 65 games but the legal hassle would have drawn it out longer so they opted for a plea bargain arraignment. He does 65 games and drops his defense. They don't bust him for more.

A 1 1/2 suspension or even a lifetime ban would not help the Brewers at all other than to recover some of the money they have tied up.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



Not worried about the Brewers overall.. I am really only concerned with Braun. Personally, I would have to believe there are more athletes bending the allowed rules verse not. Just with the attitude Braun displayed after the overturned appeal while possibly knowing he was dirty... that there is even worse than Clemens, Mcgwire and Palmeiro denials.

Basically.. he has a lot more statements of apology to go to right the mistakes.. at bear minimum. First is the tester he basically ran over.. and that should be publicly as well as privately. Then we should be talking about financial considerations in damages.

But again.. let us see those documents and proof so we can make those judgments for ourselves and stop having to read the drivel from the likes of ESPN and unnamed sources.

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
texaspackerbacker
10 years ago
What I've seen no mention of, and it kinda bothers me, is that there were at least 20, I've heard as many as 32 names implicated, some apparently with stronger evidence for doing worse things than Braun - Alex Rodriguez at the top of that list. But for some odd reason, maybe the fact that he is from a small market instead of New York City or whatever, he gets the penalty. Now I will allow for the possibility that they are just taking their time to get around to all of them, but they better NOT just leave it as is.

The other thing that seems pretty shitty is so many people piling on to Braun. I suppose not all Packer fans are automatically Brewer fans too, but come on! He is one of our own; He is paying the price for some kind of wrongdoing; Yeah, it's relatively light NOT COMPARED TO OTHER PEOPLE, but compared to what it might have been - THAT'S A GOOD THING for Brewer fans; for Wisconsin sports fans in general.

Also, there seems to be an automatic assumption that the thing he was not punished for last season is the thing he is now being punished for - and therefore he lied. Maybe ....... but if innocent until proven guilty applies basically half the sports world and a good share of the rest of the world - a lot of pretty bad people who go unpunished or get off lightly by accepting a deal for less when the evidence is shaky, then why is OUR star player thrown under the bus?

I say again, let him serve his time in peace, and then come back and finish out a great career in Milwaukee - and be damn thankful he isn't just another elitist asshole who feels the need to skip out to the east coast or west coast or where the hell ever.
Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
dhpackr
10 years ago

Just with the attitude Braun displayed after the overturned appeal while possibly knowing he was dirty... that there is even worse than Clemens, Mcgwire and Palmeiro denials.

Basically.. he has a lot more statements of apology to go to right the mistakes.. at bear minimum. First is the tester he basically ran over.. and that should be publicly as well as privately. Then we should be talking about financial considerations in damages.

But again.. let us see those documents and proof so we can make those judgments for ourselves and stop having to read the drivel from the likes of ESPN and unnamed sources.

Originally Posted by: Pack93z 



I hate to have to write it, but your concerns happened. He knew he was dirty, won a weak appeal, then made some f'd up statements concerning how his piss was handled.

You're right, the guy he blamed for handling his urine, should sue Braun in court.

Just keep in mind also, you want to see documents for a failed drug test. Think about that for a moment....

To me, this is a person's medical records...Can that be made public? Not sure that is possible.


So if you meet me Have some courtesy, Have some sympathy, and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse, Or I'll lay your soul to waste
Pack93z
10 years ago



Just keep in mind also, you want to see documents for a failed drug test. Think about that for a moment....

To me, this is a person's medical records...Can that be made public? Not sure that is possible.

Originally Posted by: dhpackr 



No I don't want to see the results of a failed drug test.. that has been made public already, although it should not have been made public prior to the appeal. I agree there.

What I want to see is the proof they obtained from the Biogensis investigation.. what exactly was uncovered there as it pertains to Ryan Braun. If he was a client from the middle of 2011 like "reported" or was it prior to that. Did they have records of deliveries to Braun. The slam dunk I want to see is that they sent him PED's, have a UPS/Delivery record of it.

At that point.. Braun has no more rope whatsoever. I want the I's dotted and the T's crossed.. and at that point, I will share your complete and utter disgust for the man. Sorry if I don't trust MLB completely.. all I want to see is the complete and unbiased truth of fact. Not opinion or unnamed source.

Additionally.. if all this is true.. then MLB should never have offered up a positive statement that Braun "accepted" his guilt. No... no he didn't until he had no choice. Basically the union made it clear.. if you are guilty, they will not defend you.. by the way, it is about time the union took that stance. Hopefully more unions do the same.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Zero2Cool
10 years ago
Ryan Braun claims that if we knew the truth, we'd understand. Why not just tell everyone the truth? Is the truth more embarrassing than being called a cheater, or worse, a liar? I'm of the belief that sports should use PED's to help with injuries and do so with proper education. PED's are a GOOD thing when used in moderation. That's the dark cloud no one wants to see through. It can help you recover from injury quicker and more effectively. So did Ryan bruise his vagina and use PED's to repair a tear?

I can't think of anything I'd rather be labeled as that are worse than a cheater or liar.

Braun's 2012 numbers prove 2011 wasn't some PED inflated season.

As for this topic ... Braun definitely owes Rodgers an explanation of some kind.

Aaron Rodgers tweets
[list]
  • MLB and cable sports tried to sully the reputation of an innocent man. Picked the wrong guy to mess with. Truth will set u free #exonerated

  • When its guilty until proven innocent, all u need are the facts. #howsthecrowmlb

  • I'll let my buddy take it from here. All u idiots talking about technicality open up for some crow too.

  • ...let the people hear the truth. Should get interesting. #exonerated #shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh[/list]


  • I also believe Ryan Braun winning his appeal really pissed the MLB off and look no further into the wording of his suspension. 15 games for appealing the positive test? MLB hasn't specifically stated what Braun did wrong either. It's like someone being thrown in jail for "break the law". I also wouldn't be surprised of Rodgers tweets and how strong they were, and coming from the NFL MVP and recent Super Bowl MVP that the "egg on face" MLB felt was quite thick.

    You remember the arbitrator in the Braun appeal? MLB fires longtime arbitrator Shyam Das, a post he'd held since 1999.


    The more facts I read about this, the more it feels like Braun grew tired of the whole ordeal and didn't want his family, friends or teammates to be distracted by the whole 'will he or won't he' saga.

     zN6md8J.png You have insufficient rights to see the content.
    UserPostedImage
    Pack93z
    10 years ago



    The more facts I read about this, the more it feels like Braun grew tired of the whole ordeal and didn't want his family, friends or teammates to be distracted by the whole 'will he or won't he' saga.

    Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



    This is precisely why I want the facts laid out for the public.. to end any gray area to the issue. Let us the fans, the ultimate driving force of the game, to actually know the truth.. fully. And then let us decide how to cheer, boo or disown him.

    Just lay it out there.. and end it.

    I also realize, as apparently the press cannot, is that Braun, MLB, and the players association might be withholding this information until all players have been dealt with in the Biogenesis issue has been dealt with.

    I will be extremely disappointed if they don't release it full in the end.
    "The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
    wpr
    • wpr
    • Preferred Member
    10 years ago

    This is precisely why I want the facts laid out for the public.. to end any gray area to the issue. Let us the fans, the ultimate driving force of the game, to actually know the truth.. fully. And then let us decide how to cheer, boo or disown him.

    Just lay it out there.. and end it.

    I also realize, as apparently the press cannot, is that Braun, MLB, and the players association might be withholding this information until all players have been dealt with in the Biogenesis issue has been dealt with.

    I will be extremely disappointed if they don't release it full in the end.

    Originally Posted by: Pack93z 



    I have been wondering if the Freedom of Information Act would apply at all. I decided it did not.
    UserPostedImage
    Pack93z
    10 years ago



    "The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
    Fan Shout
    dfosterf (9h) : For the record, I enjoy Beast and Mucky drafts
    Zero2Cool (16h) : Haha
    Mucky Tundra (17h) : No time for talking! Back to work beast!
    beast (17h) : You saw only 4,201 of my mocks? 🥺 I think that means you missed more than half of them 😢
    dfosterf (21h) : Does anyone know what Lambeau field improvements got put on hold? My guess would be for the 2025 draft
    Zero2Cool (23h) : It's like listen, you made 4,201 mocks, no shit.
    Zero2Cool (23h) : Cuz during the draft "I had them mocked there!" as if it's amazing.
    Zero2Cool (23h) : They're fun to do once in awhile. It's people who think they are "content" that annoy me.
    dfosterf (23h) : Against tbd
    dfosterf (23h) : Answer to your question is yes, it's a Thursday, will be the Chiefs aga
    dfosterf (23h) : Luckily for all concerned, I don't post them. I did one, but that was like 25 mocks ago
    Zero2Cool (23h) : NFL 2024 gonna start Sept 5th isn't it???
    Zero2Cool (23h) : Ugh... kids these days!
    dfosterf (23h) : I'm gonna go do some more mock draft hell instead 🤪
    Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : Did we do one of those prediction threads yet for 2024 season?
    dfosterf (27-Mar) : In my city, they are playing the nimby game, in order to keep some railroad tracks vs. 2 professional sports teams and a concert venue.
    dfosterf (27-Mar) : And/Or a city council, of which I haven't seen a good one in a very long time
    dfosterf (27-Mar) : That sounds like a Mayor, not a city.
    buckeyepackfan (26-Mar) : Packers halt scheduled 80mil upgrade of stadium until lease agreement talks are restarted
    Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : City of Green Bay puts Packers' Lambeau Field lease talks on hold
    buckeyepackfan (26-Mar) : Packers 1 of 3 teams to vote no on new kickoff rule.
    Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Packers sign another Kicker
    dfosterf (26-Mar) : Lengthy explanation at PFF if you click the link
    dfosterf (26-Mar) : Kickoff rules officially changed.ngthy explan
    Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : lol
    Cheesey (26-Mar) : 2009? No thanks! One open heart surgery is enough!
    dfosterf (26-Mar) : Good for you!
    Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Yes. That's the one.
    dfosterf (26-Mar) : Is that "Lady Dugan" per chance?
    dfosterf (26-Mar) : Crystal?
    dfosterf (26-Mar) : Please refresh my memory
    Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Alan posts. Crystal back in my life. It's 2009 all over again! Lol
    Mucky Tundra (26-Mar) : BAH GAWD! THAT'S CHEESEYS MUSIC!
    Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Gutekunst said early stages of Jordan Love contract being discussed.
    Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Shouldn't be penalized cuz official screwed up
    Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Yeah, challenge until you are incorrect twice.
    Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Fining them is the goal, per the people who made the rule anyway.
    dfosterf (25-Mar) : Still waiting on the kickoff rule changes. Did hear yesterday that the touchback proposal will now be the 30 yard line, not the 35
    dfosterf (25-Mar) : Probably speed of game issues with your proposal
    dfosterf (25-Mar) : Hopefully the refs don't get in the habit of throwing flags on this
    beast (25-Mar) : I think when it comes to Challenges should get two strikes, so unlimited challenges as long as they keep winning them, but 2 wrong then done
    dfosterf (25-Mar) : Still subject to the fines etc
    dfosterf (25-Mar) : Yes, I should have been more specific. Also, they are now saying it would be a 15 yard penalty. That makes more sense .
    beast (25-Mar) : Simply fined in the week to follow
    beast (25-Mar) : I agree with one NFL official, it'll probably be like some of the helmets hits, not really called by the refs on the field but simply fined
    Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Hip drop is not. Super confusing. Referees job is harder
    Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Swivel hip drop is banned
    dfosterf (25-Mar) : The hip drop enforcement will be in the form of fines, etc. Not flags
    dfosterf (25-Mar) : A major foul will be enforced on the offense if there are offsetting penalties in a change of possession situation
    dfosterf (25-Mar) : Teams will receive a 3rd challenge if 1 was successful. Previously, it took 2
    Please sign in to use Fan Shout
    2023 Packers Schedule
    Sunday, Sep 10 @ 3:25 PM
    Bears
    Sunday, Sep 17 @ 12:00 PM
    Falcons
    Sunday, Sep 24 @ 12:00 PM
    SAINTS
    Thursday, Sep 28 @ 7:15 PM
    LIONS
    Monday, Oct 9 @ 7:15 PM
    Raiders
    Sunday, Oct 22 @ 3:25 PM
    Broncos
    Sunday, Oct 29 @ 12:00 PM
    VIKINGS
    Sunday, Nov 5 @ 12:00 PM
    RAMS
    Sunday, Nov 12 @ 12:00 PM
    Steelers
    Sunday, Nov 19 @ 12:00 PM
    CHARGERS
    Thursday, Nov 23 @ 11:30 AM
    Lions
    Sunday, Dec 3 @ 7:20 PM
    CHIEFS
    Monday, Dec 11 @ 7:15 PM
    Giants
    Sunday, Dec 17 @ 12:00 PM
    BUCCANEERS
    Sunday, Dec 24 @ 12:00 PM
    Panthers
    Sunday, Dec 31 @ 7:20 PM
    Vikings
    Sunday, Jan 7 @ 3:25 PM
    BEARS
    Sunday, Jan 14 @ 3:30 PM
    Cowboys
    Saturday, Jan 20 @ 7:15 PM
    49ers
    Recent Topics
    9h / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

    9h / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

    10h / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

    16h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

    21h / Random Babble / Zero2Cool

    27-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    26-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    26-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    26-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

    25-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

    25-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

    24-Mar / Around The NFL / dhazer

    24-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    24-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    22-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    Headlines
    Copyright © 2006 - 2024 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.