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Offline Yerko  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, September 10, 2013 1:09:50 PM(UTC)
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StoicFire said: Go to Quoted Post
I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet. We've seen one game so far this season. One. And it happened to be against one of the most dominant (particularly against the run) front sevens in the league. I mean seriously, it doesn't seem fair to criticize our run game too harshly just yet... I need more data.

I don't think we gain a ground game overnight either, but I expect to see gradual improvement as the season progresses. Barring injury, the line will build chemistry. I think Lacy will settle in as well. Personally I'm looking forward to the journey.


This is the second positive post I have seen from you today and you were told to wait until Thursday.

Go sit in the corner and put this dunce cap on. Smile
Vikings Dunce

Serious now, I agree with you to an extent. I am willing to give this group of guys a chance to build a chemistry together. The offensive line setting and the runningback is brand new and hasn't had the proper time to mesh. Add that to the fact that they played one of the most dominant rush defenses in the entire league and we should be happy a touchdown came out of it. San Fran only gave up 7 rushing touchdowns last season.

The other part of me does not think this offensive line is built for the run block. Lang and EDS are not good run blockers and I don't think ever were. Outside of Sitton, we don't really have anything close to a mauler of a run blocker. I can't make judgement on Bahktairi and Barclay just yet.
thanks Post received 1 applause.
SINCITYCHEEZE on 9/11/2013(UTC)
Offline yooperfan  
#12 Posted : Tuesday, September 10, 2013 1:18:19 PM(UTC)
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StoicFire said: Go to Quoted Post
I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet. We've seen one game so far this season. One. And it happened to be against one of the most dominant (particularly against the run) front sevens in the league. I mean seriously, it doesn't seem fair to criticize our run game too harshly just yet... I need more data.

I don't think we gain a ground game overnight either, but I expect to see gradual improvement as the season progresses. Barring injury, the line will build chemistry. I think Lacy will settle in as well. Personally I'm looking forward to the journey.


It is 1 game and it was against the mighty 49ers.
Don't expect too much. No.
What about the last 7 years of shitty offensive line play.
Once Clifton, Tauscher and Wells were gone, who were not drafted by TT, the collapse became complete.
Since McCarthy came on board the line has been a case of musical chairs every year.

Sitton made the Pro Bowl at right guard, hell lets make him the left guard. (ya I know we had to do something to keep Aaron Rodgers from getting sacked 51 times again this year)
I'm just disgusted that they cannot develop a quality offensive line.
It's not like this regime hasn't had enough time.

thanks Post received 1 applause.
Wade on 9/11/2013(UTC)
Offline StoicFire  
#13 Posted : Tuesday, September 10, 2013 1:49:57 PM(UTC)
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Yerko said: Go to Quoted Post
This is the second positive post I have seen from you today and you were told to wait until Thursday.

Go sit in the corner and put this dunce cap on. Smile
Vikings Dunce

.


That just may be the ultimate dunce cap... but I don't plan on ever wearing it!
I'm going to have to learn to turn my positivity down though. Oops.

yooperfan said: Go to Quoted Post
It is 1 game and it was against the mighty 49ers.
Don't expect too much. No.
What about the last 7 years of sh!tty offensive line play.
Once Clifton, Tauscher and Wells were gone, who were not drafted by TT, the collapse became complete.
Since McCarthy came on board the line has been a case of musical chairs every year.

Sitton made the Pro Bowl at right guard, hell lets make him the left guard. (ya I know we had to do something to keep Aaron Rodgers from getting sacked 51 times again this year)
I'm just disgusted that they cannot develop a quality offensive line.
It's not like this regime hasn't had enough time.



I think they assembled a really good young offensive line this year. I'm not a big proponent of making excuses, but with Bulaga at Tackle I think this would be a VERY strong line. I think injuries are generally what turns it into musical chairs, not really any fault in drafting and developing players.

We all need to recognize though, that this line was built for pass blocking. Everyone on it (except maybe Sitton?) was originally a Tackle. That is why I defend the fact that they run a zone-blocking scheme. Tackles are praised for their ability to move laterally and agilely, and that is exactly what is required to run a quality zone-blocking run offense. I think the O-line and running game will be at least decent once they get more reps. We'll see though.
User is suspended until 4/29/2043 11:56:55 PM(UTC) texaspackerbacker  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, September 10, 2013 1:52:05 PM(UTC)
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I really think that the Packers, despite our horribly lame O Line, could just let Aaron Rodgers pass it virtually every play, and still win 11 or 12 out of 16 games, even with our sub-par defense. (Hey, that's what happened last year - 11 or 12 depending on the Seattle game).

I'm not saying we SHOULD do that, just that it is a minimum - a starting point. We seem to have a better D this season, and of course, we have Lacy, and the O Line, who knows - they have no place to go but up, so we SHOULD do better than that baseline record of last season.

What we DON'T need is to FORCE the run. Just do what we have done the last three great seasons, and let the run happen naturally - this year with Lacy.

As for the idea of giving up or not on TT, MM, or even Campen, there has been a little bit of a bad luck factor - injuries mainly. I'm willing to give them another year or two before pulling the plug and blowing up the team [grin1]
Offline sschind  
#15 Posted : Tuesday, September 10, 2013 5:41:51 PM(UTC)
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yooperfan said: Go to Quoted Post


Sitton made the Pro Bowl at right guard, hell lets make him the left guard. (ya I know we had to do something to keep Aaron Rodgers from getting sacked 51 times again this year)
I'm just disgusted that they cannot develop a quality offensive line.
It's not like this regime hasn't had enough time.



They drafted OL in the first round two years in a row and those guys are hurt. I'm not using the injuries as an excuse as to why the line sucks, who knows it may suck even with them but you can't say Ted Thompson has ignored the position.

Offline Wade  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, September 11, 2013 8:42:50 AM(UTC)
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sschind said: Go to Quoted Post
They drafted OL in the first round two years in a row and those guys are hurt. I'm not using the injuries as an excuse as to why the line sucks, who knows it may suck even with them but you can't say Ted Thompson has ignored the position.



It isn't that he hasn't addressed the position. It is that he may not be good at assessing talent (or at picking people who assess talent) at OL positions. Arguably he's Hall-of-Fame quality at his ability to pick WRs. But, just as arguably, he's mediocre in his ability to pick OL.

If you're a .180 hitter, it doesn't matter how many times you try to swing the bat. You still aren't a major league outfielder.
Offline steveishere  
#17 Posted : Wednesday, September 11, 2013 9:00:43 AM(UTC)
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Wade said: Go to Quoted Post
It isn't that he hasn't addressed the position. It is that he may not be good at assessing talent (or at picking people who assess talent) at OL positions. Arguably he's Hall-of-Fame quality at his ability to pick WRs. But, just as arguably, he's mediocre in his ability to pick OL.

If you're a .180 hitter, it doesn't matter how many times you try to swing the bat. You still aren't a major league outfielder.


I cannot say I know of many teams who would have a better offensive line right now if they lost 2 starting tackles and would still have a back up as "good" as Newhouse on the bench.
Offline Pack93z  
#18 Posted : Wednesday, September 11, 2013 9:08:59 AM(UTC)
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Campen has proven over the course of his tenure here, that he simply cannot consistently and effectively develop talent.

Whom really has excelled in his hands? Sitton and ...............

Bulaga and Lang, based on the talent level coming out of college really should have become better than they currently are.

We have drafted 17 players in that time frame.. 3 in last two years, so lets remove them from the count. So out of 14 players.. 3 have or start for other teams.

Breno Giacomini Starts for the SeaHawks
Jamon Meredith Started over 10 games for the Bucs last season.
Colledge starts for the Cardinals.

We have developed no all pros in that time frame.. and 1 pro bowl berth from the group. And yearly we struggle in blitz pickups and establishing a running game consistently.

We hear about pad level and leverage way to often.. yet Campen continues to hold his position.

I gave up on Campen in 2008.. so this isn't a knee jerk reaction based on one game.. one season. This is a pattern.

Expecting a flip of the line and different results with the same position coach putting together the protection and blocking schemes is overtly optimistic in my opinion.

I miss the days of a competent offensive line coach that can actually develop not only players but units. We beg for offensive balance, but hamstring it with an ill prepared unit to provide it.

thanks Post received 5 applause.
yooperfan on 9/11/2013(UTC), Wade on 9/11/2013(UTC), nerdmann on 9/11/2013(UTC), wpr on 9/12/2013(UTC), Yerko on 9/12/2013(UTC)
Offline Dulak  
#19 Posted : Wednesday, September 11, 2013 9:31:52 AM(UTC)
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" Packers Need to Get the Running Game Going "

And we didnt see this 5 years ago? ...

and running vs san fran with our guys and our play calling = the game we had.

Now I dont know if its me or the teams we have faced or our players or what - but dont we know by now to run to the outside either with a run or a screen? ... even grant had much more success doing this then running into the mess on the inside.

If we keep doing what we have always done we will still get the 2 yards a carry like we always have.

Offline Wade  
#20 Posted : Wednesday, September 11, 2013 9:35:42 AM(UTC)
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steveishere said: Go to Quoted Post
I cannot say I know of many teams who would have a better offensive line right now if they lost 2 starting tackles and would still have a back up as "good" as Newhouse on the bench.


The point is that this is Thompson's NINTH year as the GM making decisions about the line.

It isn't just this year that he hasn't had an offensive line with major question marks. IT IS THE NINTH.

By the ninth year he shouldn't be dependent on not losing starters. Very few teams go an entire season without having to replace starter(s) on the OL.

Look. I was happy when I saw Daryn Colledge drafted. But he turned out to be, despite Zero's continued hero worship, nothing better than a servicable starter. A Newhouse-level guard if you will.

Before Bulaga got hurt, all we had was one "really good camp" to go on whether he actually would have worked as a starting LT. Frankly, given his inconsistency at RT, that's a pretty big leap of faith in my opinion.

And the leap of faith re: Sherrod is even better. Sure, he was a #1. So was Tony Mandarich. We have even less grounds for being certain of his success uninjured than we have for Bulaga right now.

Ted has had one home run on the OL since he got here. Sitton.

In nine years. Despite the attention you and others are right to point out he has given the positions in the draft. Nine years, one home run.

How many OLs do I think would have been better than GBs OL did they have Sherrod and Bulaga? Based on TT/MM/JC's track record in their time here -- no less than 20 with a fair bet that it would be 25 or more.

Before 2010 I was increasingly disenchanted with TT. But 2010 convinced me that he should be the GM for a very long time.

But I still think "assessing OL talent" is his Achilles heel. If I were Mark Murphy, I'd be asking him when he's going to shake up the team's scout/personnel people with regard to how they do OL evaluation.



thanks Post received 1 applause.
wpr on 9/12/2013(UTC)
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