Porforis
10 years ago

Come on now you know what I was saying. I'm obviously talking about players with the same ability level not the same build. Don't be dense.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



In which case your defense would be exactly like Hawk: A little above okay but from game to game, roughly the same level of okay. We've certainly had years with much-less-than-okay defense in green bay in the last decade plus.
steveishere
10 years ago

In which case your defense would be exactly like Hawk: A little above okay but from game to game, roughly the same level of okay. We've certainly had years with much-less-than-okay defense in green bay in the last decade plus.

Originally Posted by: Porforis 



average at best at every position does not = an overall average defense. That is a bad defense.
nerdmann
10 years ago
The problem with Hawk is he won't juice.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Yerko
10 years ago
I've liked Hawk and I have enjoyed watching him play as a Packer. He isn't flashy and very few times will he make that play that shoots your ass of your couch, but he is a solid player nonetheless. He makes few mistakes, is a leader of the defense and is a sound veteran who doesn't get injured (<- this is odd playing for the Packers).

He has been cut just so he can come back to take a pay cut. I respect the crap out of that because I am sure he can make a little more money playing elsewhere (some may disagree), but he wants to be a part of this Packers team.

RotoWorld says:

The immediate pay cut is $1.85 million in 2013, and Hawk's 2014-2015 salaries were slashed by $2.45 million and $2.85 million, respectively. In exchange, the Packers guaranteed $2.21 million of Hawk's new 2013 base salary ($3.6 million). Hawk, 29, graded out as Pro Football Focus' No. 20 inside linebacker in 2012. He was adequate against the run but a liability versus the pass.



I don't care for the article and saying that, I didn't even read it all. The title alone blows chunks because I don't see how you can say someone is struggling when they are constantly leading the team (or close to the top) in tackles each year. That's a big part of his job, no?

It could be worse.
UserPostedImage
buckeyepackfan
10 years ago

I say it's completely fair to compare Hawk to what we coulda and shoulda got with the 5th pick in the draft - NOT to what some low round pick did or could do, many of which have actually out-performed Hawk anyway. I'm on record as favoring Vernon Davis instead of Hawk - the big controversy at the time he was drafted, and even though Davis has been kind of up and down, I'd still take his career over Hawk. Furthermore, if we hadn't gotten Hawk, there's a strong chance we would have somebody a LOT better in that position now.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



The grass is always greener!!!

All these supertstars you said we could have brought in, how many have played every game but 2 in the last 8 years?

How many have switched positions multiple times because the team needed them to?

How many of these "superstars" are knowlegable enough to switch positions?

How many of these "superstars" you wanted would have stayed in Green Bay, when Ted Thompson would not have offered the "Big money" contract that they thought they deserved?

How many of these "superstars" would have allowed Ted Thompson to cut them one day then resign them the next day to help THE TEAM with the salary cap?

How many of these "superstars" would have taken a pay cut, and not whined and cried about it all the way to the bank?

Hell Bishop refused a pay cut and look what happened to him.

Ted Thompson has had at least 2 chances to cut AJ Hawk without hurting The Packers as a whole, salary cap wise, both times he decided the BEST MAN for the job was AJ Hawk.

Not to hurt your feelings, but I'll take Ted Thompsons decision making over yours everyday.

YEP THE GRASS IS ALWAYS GREENER ON THE OTHER SIDE!!!!

1. Barnett, Nick LB Oregon State 2003-10 107
2. Barrington, Sam LB South Florida 2013 1
3. Bishop, Desmond LB California 2007-11 69
4. Briggs, Diyral LB Bowling Green 2010 5
5. Chillar, Brandon LB UCLA 2008-10 34
6. Diggs, Na'il LB Ohio State 2000-05 84
7. Francois, Robert LB Boston College 2010-13 35
8. Havner, Spencer TE/LB UCLA 2008-10 21
9. Hawk, A.J. LB Ohio State 2006-12 110
10. Hodge, Abdul LB Iowa 2006 8
11. Jones, Brad LB Colorado 2009-13 51
12. Kampman, Aaron DE/LB Iowa 2002-09 112
13. Lansanah, Danny LB Connecticut 2008 5
14. Lattimore, Jamari LB Middle Tennessee State 2011-13 23
15. Leake, John LB Clemson 2005 3
16. Lenon, Paris LB Richmond 2002-05 64
17. Manning, Roy LB Michigan 2005 15
18. Manning, Terrell LB North Carolina State 2012 5
19. Matthews, Clay LB Southern California 2009-13 58
20. Moses, Dezman LB Tulane 2012 16
21. Mulumba, Andy LB Eastern Michigan 2013 1
22. Obiozor, Cyril LB Texas A&M 2009 5
23. Palmer, Nate LB Illinois State 2013 1
24. Perry, Nick LB Southern California 2012-13 6
25. Poppinga, Brady LB Brigham Young 2005-10 81
26. Simpkins, Maurice LB Coastal Carolina 2010 2
27. Smith, D.J. LB Appalachian State 2011-12 22
28. So'oto, Vic LB Brigham Young 2011-12 8
29. Taylor, Ben LB Virginia Tech 2006 10
30. Thomas, Robert LB UCLA 2005 10
31. Thompson, Jeremy DE/LB Wake Forest 2008-09 15
32. Walden, Erik LB Middle Tennessee State 2010-12 40
33. White, Tracy LB Howard 2006-08 32
34. Wilhelm, Matt LB Ohio State 2010 7
35. Williams, D.J. LB Arkansas 2011-12 26
36. Zombo, Frank LB Central Michigan 2010-12 25
I was addicted to The Hokey Pokey, but I turned myself around!
GermanGilbert
10 years ago

I say it's completely fair to compare Hawk to what we coulda and shoulda got with the 5th pick in the draft - NOT to what some low round pick did or could do, many of which have actually out-performed Hawk anyway.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



This is the list of the picks in the 2006 Draft from #5 AJ Hawk to the next Packers pick at #46 Daryn Colledge. And now please tell me which of the guys would have been a better pick.

6. San Francisco - Vernon Davis, TE Maryland
7. Oakland - Michael Huff, DB Texas
8. Buffalo - Donte Whitner, S Ohio State
9. Detroit - Ernie Sims, LB Florida State
10. Arizona - Matt Leinart, QB USC
11. Denver (from St. Louis) - Jay Cutler, QB Vanderbilt
12. Baltimore (from Cleveland) - Haloti Ngata, DT Oregon
13. Cleveland (from Baltimore) - Kamerion Wimbley, DE/OLB Florida State
14. Philadelphia - Broderick Bunkley, DT Florida State
15. St. Louis (from Atlanta through Denver) - Tye Hill, Cb Clemson
16. Miami - Jason Allen, DB Tennessee
17. Minnesota - Chad Greenway, LB Iowa
18. Dallas - Bobby Carpenter, LB Ohio State
19. San Diego - Antonio Cromartie, CB Florida State
20. Kansas City - Tamba Hali, DE Penn State
21. New England - Laurence Maroney, RB Minnesota
22. San Francisco (from Washington through Denver) - Manny Lawson, DE/OLB North Carolina State
23. Tampa Bay - Davin Joseph, G Oklahoma
24. Cincinnati - Johnathan Joseph, CB South Carolina
25. Pittsburgh (from N.Y. Giants) - Santonio Holmes, WR Ohio State
26. Buffalo (from Chicago) - John McCargo, DT North Carolina State
27. Carolina - DeAngelo Williams, RB Memphis
28. Jacksonville - Marcedes Lewis, TE UCLA
29. NY Jets (from Denver through Atlanta) - Nick Mangold, C Ohio State
30. Indianapolis - Joseph Addai, RB LSU
31. Seattle - Kelly Jennings, CB Miami (FL)
32. N.Y. Giants (from Pittsburgh) - Mathias Kiwanuka, DE Boston College

Round Two
1. (33) Houston - DeMeco Ryans, LB Alabama
2. (34) Cleveland (from New Orleans) - D'Qwell Jackson, LB Maryland
3. (35) Washington (from New York Jets) - Rocky McIntosh, LB Miami (FL)
4. (36) New England (from Green Bay) - Chad Jackson, WR Florida
5. (37) Atlanta (from San Francisco through Denver through Green Bay) - Jimmy Williams, CB Virginia Tech
6. (38) Oakland - Thomas Howard, OLB UTEP
7. (39) Philadelphia (from Tennessee) - Winston Justice, OT USC
8. (40) Detroit - Daniel Bullocks, S Nebraska
9. (41) Arizona - Deuce Lutui, OG USC
10. (42) Chicago (from Buffalo) - Danieal Manning, DB Abilene Christian
11. (43) New Orleans (from Cleveland) - Roman Harper, S Alabama
12. (44) N.Y. Giants (from Baltimore) - Sinorice Moss, WR Miami (FL)
13. (45) Tennessee (from Philadelphia) - LenDale White, RB USC




IMO I'd take D'Quell Jackson over Hawk. But that's the only one. There are few players which I consider the same level, but most of these guys were outperformed by Hawk in any meaning.

For me Hawk is rock solid, he's the leading tackler this season and stayed here for 8 years. I'm happy to have him.
blank
nerdmann
10 years ago
Vernon Davis.

Haloti Ngata.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
GermanGilbert
10 years ago

Vernon Davis.

Haloti Ngata.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



Vernon Davis: 1 very good, 2 mediocre to good season, 8 in total. 😳
Haloti Ngata: Good, but averall not significant better than Hawk, at least IMO.

I'd take some of the other guys I considered the same level like Hawk over those two anytime.
blank
buckeyepackfan
10 years ago

Vernon Davis.

Haloti Ngata.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



2005 Ted signs Ryan Pickett...Pickett of Ngata?

No question in my mind.

TE's on Packer roster 2006 Bubba Franks and Donald Lee 2 proven vets, David Martin was an early version of Jermicheal Finley, the size of a TE with the speed of a WR, his only problem, he couldn't stay healthy, no room for Vernon Davis.




I was addicted to The Hokey Pokey, but I turned myself around!
DoddPower
10 years ago
6. San Francisco - Vernon Davis, TE Maryland
8. Buffalo - Donte Whitner, S Ohio State
12. Baltimore (from Cleveland) - Haloti Ngata, DT Oregon ***
17. Minnesota - Chad Greenway, LB Iowa
19. San Diego - Antonio Cromartie, CB Florida State
20. Kansas City - Tamba Hali, DE Penn State
22. San Francisco (from Washington through Denver) - Manny Lawson, DE/OLB North Carolina State

29. NY Jets (from Denver through Atlanta) - Nick Mangold, C Ohio State


Round Two

7. (39) Philadelphia (from Tennessee) - Winston Justice, OT USC


I would say all of the above guys would have been worth considering and possibly better picks than Hawk. That is complete hindsight, but what else can one do at this point? There could have been some nice value there, even if a trade down was involved and scooped up a few more picks. Ngata is not even a question. He's basically a truly elite player that an elite defense can build around. If you don't think Ngata is a great player, I don't think you are watching him enough, at least when reasonably healthy. I actually like Manny Lawson a lot. 6'5 LBer, fast. I can't really say Hawk is MUCH better than him. Nick Mangold would have been a rock for the Packers and would still be for a notorious weak offensive line. Many of us can imagine what an improved offensive line could do for this team. Hali is a great pass rusher who likely impacts the games more than Hawk. Cromartie has become a borderline shutdown corner despite kind of being a head case. He's fast as hell and is a great player to have on your team. Greenway is every bit as solid as Hawk, and very likely better. Justice may be a stretch and I'd rather have Hawk, but still worth some consideration.

Either way, in hindsight, there was potential to get some great value, potentially a substantially better player, and a similar player in many scenarios and potentially extra picks. It's interesting to think about. Ultimately, I'm OK with Hawk, but I think the Packers defense would have been and would still be totally different with somone like Ngata. The best thing Hawk has going for him is his availability, which is a great asset. He can be counted on to give what he offers, even if what he offers isn't elite. That's worth a lot. But from a production standpoint, similar production can generally be gotten from Brad Jones and Desmond Bishops of the world, which puts things in perspective a bit.

But still, I certainly don't mind to have Hawk on my favorite team!
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