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dyeah_gb  
#1 Posted : Thursday, October 31, 2013 3:53:41 PM(UTC)
I was happy to jump on the "Campen sucks" bandwagon a few years back. This years performance so far indicates some kudos are in order maybe. Here is a list of my rambling train of thought:

1. The line has played pretty well even with the major starter injuries before the season.

2. We all recognize that a certain number of sacks in previous years under Rodgers were due to holding on to the ball too long rather than much to do with the line. This year, I am loving the quicker release on the pass.


3. Grant played with us under the zone blocking scheme and that really appears as a busted experiment. I haven't seen much discussion on this. Bringing in Lacy indicates we are going full tilt towards the traditional power running game.
Zero2Cool  
#2 Posted : Thursday, October 31, 2013 6:16:57 PM(UTC)
Broke clock is right twice a day.
wpr  
#3 Posted : Thursday, October 31, 2013 6:20:21 PM(UTC)
I wasn't all the way in the I hate Campen camp like i am not all the way into the give him a free pass camp.

The better results on the line are as you point out Rodgers quicker release and having a stud RB who keeps moving after first contact.
User is suspended until 4/29/2043 11:56:55 PM(UTC) texaspackerbacker  
#4 Posted : Thursday, October 31, 2013 7:02:09 PM(UTC)
I don't think Campen was necessarily the problem before, and I don't things are near as good as they should be now. The problem as I see it is mediocre personnel.

Aaron Rodgers makes up for a large part of the problem by moving so well, passing so well on the move, and running as needed. However, he virtually never gets the time to throw that most QBs get most of the time. The running game is a little bit better now because of Rodgers' passing and to some extent Lacy's ability, but we still can't just line up and run except when the opponent's D is thinking pass.

Maybe getting Bulaga and Sherrod back healthy will help, I don't know, but the fact is, our O Line STILL is far from the quality it ought to be.
DakotaT  
#5 Posted : Thursday, October 31, 2013 7:16:31 PM(UTC)
Our O'line is still a work in progress. To think that anybody not named Sitton can't be upgraded is foolishness. They are still a work in progress. They are playing a lot better than their pedestrian draft status would suggest they should be. For this, Campen should be applauded. Ted on the other might take some criticism - even if injuries aren't his fault.
buckeyepackfan  
#6 Posted : Thursday, October 31, 2013 7:34:48 PM(UTC)
http://espn.go.com/nfl/s...sort/rushingYardsPerGame

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http://espn.go.com/nfl/s...t/sacks/position/defense

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http://espn.go.com/nfl/s...g/sort/quarterbackRating

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DakotaT  
#7 Posted : Thursday, October 31, 2013 8:05:47 PM(UTC)
Buckeye, why are you always laughing at yourself.

Making an argument out of stats can lead to somebody calling you an idiot. Example - 2011 Packers, whose stats were off the charts, yet got beaten as if they were little girls in their own house by a bully that laughed at their stats.
buckeyepackfan  
#8 Posted : Thursday, October 31, 2013 8:17:26 PM(UTC)
DakotaT said: Go to Quoted Post
Buckeye, why are you always laughing at yourself.

Making an argument out of stats can lead to somebody calling you an idiot. Example - 2011 Packers, whose stats were off the charts, yet got beaten as if they were little girls in their own house by a bully that laughed at their stats.


2011 The Packers had the #32 rated defense in the league, it finally caught up to them in the playoffs.

Here's a FACT for you , that YOU will never understand.

All the individual talent in the world doesn't do a TEAM a damn bit of good, especially when it comes to an Offensive line.

Until you understand the word "chemistry" as applied to an NFL team, you will never get it, will never be satisfied, and will always be the the one making "idiotic" statements when it comes to your knowledge of football.

nerdmann  
#9 Posted : Thursday, October 31, 2013 8:56:40 PM(UTC)
dyeah_gb said: Go to Quoted Post
I was happy to jump on the Campen bandwagon sucks a few years back. This years performance so far indicates some kudos are in order maybe. Here is a list of my rambling train of thought:

1. The line has played pretty well even with the major starter injuries before the season.

2. We all recognize that a certain number of sacks in previous years under Rodgers were due to holding on to the ball too long rather than much to do with the line. This year, I am loving the quicker release on the pass.

3. Grant played with us under the zone blocking scheme and that really appears as a busted experiment. I haven't seen much discussion on this. Bringing in Lacy indicates we are going full tilt towards the traditional power running game.


The zone blocking bullshit has always sucked. The Broncos ran it well in the 90s, but it just flat out totally sucks shit here.

Earlier, Mike was asking Ted to get "smaller, quicker" offensive linemen. Remember Tony Moll? Glorified TEs. That was a total fiasco.

Nowadays, Ted has been allowed to get "bigger, stronger" guys.

Suddenly, we've got guys who can play. Go figure.

EDIT: Oh yeah, Campen. LOL. As far as I'm concerned none of this is due to him. But I don't give him credit for developing these guys. He's like Slocum, benefitting from Ted getting him good players.

I do blame him for Tretter breaking his ankle in the first Practice of his pro career, though.

As for Grant, it doesn't matter what type of system you run, if your RBs keeps running up the back of his blockers.
gbguy20  
#10 Posted : Friday, November 1, 2013 12:49:44 PM(UTC)
hasn't mccarthy been working with the oline a lot more than in previous years?
Bigbyfan  
#11 Posted : Friday, November 1, 2013 1:52:25 PM(UTC)
Only coach I "hate" is our Strength & Conditioning coach. Far too many injuries over his tenure for my liking.
DoddPower  
#12 Posted : Friday, November 1, 2013 3:23:17 PM(UTC)
I still think Campen is an average offensive line coach, at best, and has very often been much worse. I think the Packers could do better, with very little risk of doing worse.
User is suspended until 4/29/2043 11:56:55 PM(UTC) texaspackerbacker  
#13 Posted : Friday, November 1, 2013 4:32:05 PM(UTC)
Average, yeah - I just don't think an O Line coach makes that much difference, though. His job is teaching fundamentals of line blocking, and if a guy didn't have a pretty good grasp of that by the time he makes an NFL team, he probably wouldn't ever get that far.

The ZBS has always been a mystery to me. It was SO successful in Denver. Terrell Davis was just a 6th round pick; Maybe he was exceptional, but Olandis Gary and a couple of others who never could do anything elsewhere also came up big. And the linemen themselves didn't seem all that exceptional. It wasn't that foreign to Green Bay - the old sweep with Kramer and Thurston pulling was kinda a 60s version of the same thing. When the Packers installed the ZBS, I was really expecting something similar - super performance with mediocre personnel. Obviously it never happened, not for Campen, not for Jacodjinski - who was, I think, first generation away from Denver.

I always thought having bigger lineman would make for better pass blocking too. It seems like what the Packers have had the past few years is the worst of both worlds. Yet thanks to Aaron Rodgers, we still have had the best offense in football. How much better would it be if we really did have outstanding O Linemen?
Wade  
#14 Posted : Friday, November 1, 2013 5:37:31 PM(UTC)
texaspackerbacker said: Go to Quoted Post
Average, yeah - I just don't think an O Line coach makes that much difference, though. His job is teaching fundamentals of line blocking, and if a guy didn't have a pretty good grasp of that by the time he makes an NFL team, he probably wouldn't ever get that far.

The ZBS has always been a mystery to me. It was SO successful in Denver. Terrell Davis was just a 6th round pick; Maybe he was exceptional, but Olandis Gary and a couple of others who never could do anything elsewhere also came up big. And the linemen themselves didn't seem all that exceptional. It wasn't that foreign to Green Bay - the old sweep with Kramer and Thurston pulling was kinda a 60s version of the same thing. When the Packers installed the ZBS, I was really expecting something similar - super performance with mediocre personnel. Obviously it never happened, not for Campen, not for Jacodjinski - who was, I think, first generation away from Denver.

I always thought having bigger lineman would make for better pass blocking too. It seems like what the Packers have had the past few years is the worst of both worlds. Yet thanks to Aaron Rodgers, we still have had the best offense in football. How much better would it be if we really did have outstanding O Linemen?


The Broncos also combined the ZBS with stretching the rules as far as they could go with regard to cheap shot/cut block/chop block/low block blocking techniques. The Gibbs/Shanahan approach was the Evil Empire version of the ZBS.

IMO.


Tezzy  
#15 Posted : Friday, November 1, 2013 5:41:21 PM(UTC)
A much improved running game and better protection of Rodgers. The following link is an interesting set of data which I think shows that both the run game and pass pro are combined better this year. I won't attribute 100% of that to Campen, but I would also think it is unfair to not give him due credit considering the switch of Sitton to the left and the set of tackles he has to work with.

Unblocked Pressure
DoddPower  
#16 Posted : Saturday, November 2, 2013 3:34:02 PM(UTC)
Tezzy said: Go to Quoted Post
A much improved running game and better protection of Rodgers. The following link is an interesting set of data which I think shows that both the run game and pass pro are combined better this year. I won't attribute 100% of that to Campen, but I would also think it is unfair to not give him due credit considering the switch of Sitton to the left and the set of tackles he has to work with.

Unblocked Pressure


Of course he gets some credit, but he also get's a lot of credit for years of sub-par offensive line play, which keeps his overall average pretty low.

PackFanWithTwins  
#17 Posted : Monday, November 4, 2013 7:41:07 AM(UTC)
I never blamed Campen, and I also won't credit him. We are better blocking because we have committed to running the ball. When they talk about a RB getting going and getting better as the game goes on, it is not simply the RB, it is the Oline gets going and the defense wears down.

Sorry but Campen didn't just figure out how to coach. I think flipping Lang and Sitton has made a big difference in both run and pass blocking. I think we have also stopped looking downfield as much as we have in the past. They know we don't have the personnel to go vertical so we are depending on the shorter routes more which means (what a good many of us had been yelling in the past) Short routes, less time for defense to get pressure.
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