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Offline MintBaconDrivel  
#1 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 6:03:40 AM(UTC)
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LombardiAve wrote:
The Green Bay Packers defense has struggled the last few weeks — that's putting it lightly — even though they have the talent to be a lot better. The Packers' defense started out strong during the first half of the season, but tackling issues have been one of the biggest issues for the team the
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Offline wpr  
#2 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 6:30:03 AM(UTC)
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I can live with handing Capers his release. I don't see it coming until after the season. His time was up a cou[le of years ago.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#3 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 6:34:12 AM(UTC)
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Online Mucky Tundra  
#4 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 6:37:05 AM(UTC)
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I can live with Capers being handed his walking papers. It seems like over the past 2-3 years when this team REALLY needed a defensive stop/big play/something created from nothing from the booth it hasn't happened.
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Offline play2win  
#5 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 6:54:34 AM(UTC)
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To me, this seems a bit premature. We are currently 21st in run D, 12th in pass D, and 12th in scoring D. That is through a lot of adversity due to injury.

If Mike McCarthy can simply close the deal on some of these teams by pounding the football, we might be able to steal a few wins with Rodgers on the mend. McCarthy has to stop treating 2nd and 3rd string QBs like he does his NFL MVP. Run the damn football and score some points. You have THREE 100 yd/game rushers on your roster!

Last week Wallace threw the game away, this week Tolzien threw it away. FAR more passing than there should have been, opening us up to disaster, and two losses.

McCarthy is demoralizing his own team with all of these impossible pass plays. I mean, c'mon. Your 2nd and 3rd stringers are not going to complete 70% of those like he is mistakenly imagining.

Out goes the defense again, heads down….

Trust me, I am not liking what I am seeing on D, but I am not liking what I am seeing on O more.
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#6 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 7:36:09 AM(UTC)
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Is another coach going to keep our DBs from losing the WR or a ball bouncing up into the WR hands? Sorry but the defense played pretty well. Three TDs on long plays, one being a fluke. Three plays accounting for 130 of 228 passing yards. We still need a FS to replace Collins.
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Offline play2win  
#7 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 7:41:34 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post

We still need a FS to replace Collins.


That's the biggie right there PackFanWithTwins! A need that we had going into this season, as well as last season. Maybe, maybe, Sean Richardson gets a look now that he is cleared to play. I'm not going to hold my breath, but, it is possible the kid could do something positive back there.

This is one of the reasons why I wanted Ted to bring in a veteran S in FA or via trade.

I agree with you too, that we just witnessed two consecutive weeks of fluke plays that killed us. Both McCown and Foles were throwing up prayers that became receptions and scores.
Offline cheeseheads123  
#8 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 8:03:45 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
To me, this seems a bit premature. We are currently 21st in run D, 12th in pass D, and 12th in scoring D. That is through a lot of adversity due to injury.

If Mike McCarthy can simply close the deal on some of these teams by pounding the football, we might be able to steal a few wins with Rodgers on the mend. McCarthy has to stop treating 2nd and 3rd string QBs like he does his NFL MVP. Run the damn football and score some points. You have THREE 100 yd/game rushers on your roster!

Last week Wallace threw the game away, this week Tolzien threw it away. FAR more passing than there should have been, opening us up to disaster, and two losses.

McCarthy is demoralizing his own team with all of these impossible pass plays. I mean, c'mon. Your 2nd and 3rd stringers are not going to complete 70% of those like he is mistakenly imagining.

Out goes the defense again, heads down….

Trust me, I am not liking what I am seeing on D, but I am not liking what I am seeing on O more.


Running the ball was not working this week especially when the Packers fell behind.
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Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#9 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 8:06:43 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: cheeseheads123 Go to Quoted Post
Running the ball was not working this week especially when the Packers fell behind.


I think not being able to run, had more to do with having Lang a C, Taylor at G and Newhouse at T.
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Offline play2win  
#10 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 8:12:37 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: cheeseheads123 Go to Quoted Post
Running the ball was not working this week especially when the Packers fell behind.


Yeah, but 3rd and 3 from the 5? Give the RB the ROCK!

3rd and 1 from the 24? Give the RB the ROCK!

3rd and 2 from the 17? Give the RB the ROCK!

1st and goal from the 9? You don't pass 3 times!!!

McCarthy laid a lot of pressure on his 3rd string QB calling THOSE plays. Jonathan Franklin rushed for over 100 yds against CIN, and has not really seen the field since on O. I do not get that.

Lacy has the most success running the ball to the left side of our OL. That was still in tact if I'm not mistaken. Why not keep running? Eventually they bust for a big gain.

44 pass attempts? Really?
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#11 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 8:19:53 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
Yeah, but 3rd and 3 from the 5? Give the RB the ROCK!

3rd and 1 from the 24? Give the RB the ROCK!

3rd and 2 from the 17? Give the RB the ROCK!

1st and goal from the 9? You don't pass 3 times!!!

McCarthy laid a lot of pressure on his 3rd string QB calling THOSE plays. Jonathan Franklin rushed for over 100 yds against CIN, and has not really seen the field since on O. I do not get that.

Lacy has the most success running the ball to the left side of our OL. That was still in tact if I'm not mistaken. Why not keep running? Eventually they bust for a big gain.

44 pass attempts? Really?


Even running to the left is extremely difficult when the C->right are on backups. We ran good last week, until we lost Lang. we ran this week until the Line got shifted around again.

Continuity and Oline blocking is far more important than which back has the rock.
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Online texaspackerbacker  
#12 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 8:24:37 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
Yeah, but 3rd and 3 from the 5? Give the RB the ROCK!

3rd and 1 from the 24? Give the RB the ROCK!

3rd and 2 from the 17? Give the RB the ROCK!

1st and goal from the 9? You don't pass 3 times!!!

McCarthy laid a lot of pressure on his 3rd string QB calling THOSE plays. Jonathan Franklin rushed for over 100 yds against CIN, and has not really seen the field since on O. I do not get that.

Lacy has the most success running the ball to the left side of our OL. That was still in tact if I'm not mistaken. Why not keep running? Eventually they bust for a big gain.

44 pass attempts? Really?


First of all, what does this have to do with the topic - fire Capers or not?

Have you never heard of taking what the defense gives you? With wallace and even with Tolzien to some extent, the Eagles D was stacked to stop the run. After Lacy's early success, they adjusted even more that way.

1st and Goal at the Nine? If it was Aaron Rodgers, hell yeah I want to see three passes.

Jonathan Franklin basically found a hole for one big gain. Other than that, he has showed practically no vision and a tendency to fumble. Lacy and Starks are not just a little bit better, they are a LOT better.

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Offline wpr  
#13 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 8:27:01 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
Is another coach going to keep our DBs from losing the WR or a ball bouncing up into the WR hands? Sorry but the defense played pretty well. Three TDs on long plays, one being a fluke. Three plays accounting for 130 of 228 passing yards. We still need a FS to replace Collins.


You can try and rationalize it all you want but giving up 200 yards rushing with a 5.5 avg per carry is NOT "the defense played pretty well." That is a crappy job. The only reason the passing yards were not more is because they didn't need to throw the ball.

Saying it was just 3 plays reminds me of Bart Starr when he was coach. He went to the stockholders meeting and said something to the effect that if 6 plays had gone their way they wouldn't have been a 6-10 team they would have been 12-4. (I don't remember their record but I know he picked 6 plays from 6 different games.) Anyone can do that but it fails to take into account what happens after those plays. It fails to take into consideration that the OTHER team can say the very same thing.

So Philly wouldn't have scored in 3 giant plays but it doesn't mean they still wouldn't have scored at all.

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Offline Zero2Cool  
#14 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 8:29:42 AM(UTC)
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Defense was horrible and that's an understatement. Defense had TWO blatant facemask penalties ignored by the officials in addition to failing to keep contain on the back end. They couldn't stop a 9 minute plus drive to give the offense another chance.

Fluke plays aren't fluke if they happen from week to week.

When you can't get off the field on 3rd down, you're going to lose more games than win. Especially when you can't get turnovers.
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Offline play2win  
#15 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 8:32:59 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post

1st and Goal at the Nine? If it was Aaron Rodgers, hell yeah I want to see three passes.



That's the problem. It wasn't Aaron Rodgers back there, but that's the way McCarthy called the game, as if he were still back there.

The whole point texaspackerbacker is coming away from these drives with ZERO points or a token FG is demoralizing to your own D, and the whole team for that matter.

We needed 3 yards, 1 yard, and 2 yards to keep those drives alive, and we passed every time with our 3rd string QB. That seems foolish to me. 1st and goal from the 9? and we don't even run? Wow. Even moreso. All deep in scoring territory. 3 out of 4 in the red zone. Foolish.

D stunk.

O stunk.
Offline cheeseheads123  
#16 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 8:36:16 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
Yeah, but 3rd and 3 from the 5? Give the RB the ROCK!

3rd and 1 from the 24? Give the RB the ROCK!

3rd and 2 from the 17? Give the RB the ROCK!

1st and goal from the 9? You don't pass 3 times!!!

McCarthy laid a lot of pressure on his 3rd string QB calling THOSE plays. Jonathan Franklin rushed for over 100 yds against CIN, and has not really seen the field since on O. I do not get that.

Lacy has the most success running the ball to the left side of our OL. That was still in tact if I'm not mistaken. Why not keep running? Eventually they bust for a big gain.

44 pass attempts? Really?
Yeah, i agree it should of been a run every 3rd and short. But other than that i didn't have too much of a problem with the play calling. I think it was more about how the game played out that put the pressure on Tolzien. The missed field goals, the eagles quick scores, injuries to the OL, the inability to run the ball, etc.

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Offline luigis  
#17 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 8:36:49 AM(UTC)
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I agree and I can see Kevin Greene as our new DC.
Whitt and Perry should be fired too.
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Online texaspackerbacker  
#18 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 8:39:48 AM(UTC)
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The problem is NOT Capers. The problem is shoddy personnel - Thank you Ted Thompson.

The Packers simply are not capable of consistently manning up and playing basic defense. They NEED all those tricks and blitz packages, whatever. Do the "fire Capers" crowd not remember the days of whatshisname - Sanders? or the guy who came before him - that there was so-o-o-o much whining and complaining about because they featured bland defenses? Even then, the Packers lacked that basic toughness.

The problem is players like Raji and Brad Jones at the top of the list. Pickett is only even borderline if you compare him to Raji. Nick Perry hopefully will show something when healthy, but yesterday he was awful. Palmer was pathetic. Datone Jones and Neal improved from total crap to barely adequate yesterday, Clay Matthews wasn't himself playing one-armed. Our DBs have seemed to fail, but I suspect they are being asked to do too much with all the blitzing - necessary blitzing. Just the same, I saw Burnett mess up a few times, and the other Safeties mostly didn't even get close enough to see them mess up on TV. I used to criticize A. J. Hawk - justifiably, but he has really turned it around this season - all the way to where he is an average LB now.
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Offline play2win  
#19 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 8:42:19 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: cheeseheads123 Go to Quoted Post
Yeah, i agree it should of been a run every 3rd and short. But other than that i didn't have too much of a problem with the play calling. I think it was more about how the game played out that put the pressure on Tolzien. The missed field goals, the eagles quick scores, injuries to the OL, the inability to run the ball, etc.



Yeah, that's pretty much what I was driving at chesseheads123. Those were crucial points in the game, and each one McCarthy chose to pass instead of run.

What does that do to the confidence of your RBs and OL? Wow. Certainly not a confidence "builder."

Why not get Raji in the backfield on one or two of those as a lead blocker? We could have easily scored two more TDs that way….
Offline cheeseheads123  
#20 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 8:44:52 AM(UTC)
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Lovie Smith anyone? Flapper
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Online texaspackerbacker  
#21 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 8:51:27 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
That's the problem. It wasn't Aaron Rodgers back there, but that's the way McCarthy called the game, as if he were still back there.

The whole point texaspackerbacker is coming away from these drives with ZERO points or a token FG is demoralizing to your own D, and the whole team for that matter.

We needed 3 yards, 1 yard, and 2 yards to keep those drives alive, and we passed every time with our 3rd string QB. That seems foolish to me. 1st and goal from the 9? and we don't even run? Wow. Even moreso. All deep in scoring territory. 3 out of 4 in the red zone. Foolish.

D stunk.

O stunk.


The O stunk because Rodgers was not there to make up for the woefully bad O Line. As I said, I'm sure McCarthy would say his playcalls were because of what the Eagles D was doing.

The D stunk, yes, but WHY? That is the reason for this thread. I say we would be even worse off without Capers' tricks and blitzes.

The culprit in ALL of this - O and D both stinking is TED THOMPSON!

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Offline nerdmann  
#22 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 9:02:35 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: cheeseheads123 Go to Quoted Post
Lovie Smith anyone? Flapper


No bullshit. But he probly wants a HC gig.
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Offline nerdmann  
#23 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 9:07:54 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
The problem is NOT Capers. The problem is shoddy personnel - Thank you Ted Thompson.

The Packers simply are not capable of consistently manning up and playing basic defense. They NEED all those tricks and blitz packages, whatever. Do the "fire Capers" crowd not remember the days of whatshisname - Sanders? or the guy who came before him - that there was so-o-o-o much whining and complaining about because they featured bland defenses? Even then, the Packers lacked that basic toughness.

The problem is players like Raji and Brad Jones at the top of the list. Pickett is only even borderline if you compare him to Raji. Nick Perry hopefully will show something when healthy, but yesterday he was awful. Palmer was pathetic. Datone Jones and Neal improved from total crap to barely adequate yesterday, Clay Matthews wasn't himself playing one-armed. Our DBs have seemed to fail, but I suspect they are being asked to do too much with all the blitzing - necessary blitzing. Just the same, I saw Burnett mess up a few times, and the other Safeties mostly didn't even get close enough to see them mess up on TV. I used to criticize A. J. Hawk - justifiably, but he has really turned it around this season - all the way to where he is an average LB now.


We've got what, 6 first round picks on defense? A number of 2-3's?

Capers can do it with smoke and mirrors, but he's been exposed the last two weeks. BADLY.

Now he's got Clay back, so he should be back up to relatively full strength.

Capers track record is that the middle of the field goes uncovered and also, the team shits itself on a regular basis. The defense hasn't shown up ready to play for 60 either of the last two weeks.

Btw, Brad Jones had plenty of free agent interest, although I like Lattimore just as much if not more. And as for Datone, dude had TWO sacks yesterday. Sounds like the ankle is getting better.
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Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#24 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 10:15:04 AM(UTC)
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If you want to call for Capers head, what should have done different? Be more aggressive, less aggressive, blitz more, blitz difference, play coverage more or less? What? Before Capers, there was an outcry for a change in philosophy to be more aggressive.

Our problem seems more to be players failure than coaching.
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Offline luigis  
#25 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 10:26:48 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
If you want to call for Capers head, what should have done different? Be more aggressive, less aggressive, blitz more, blitz difference, play coverage more or less? What? Before Capers, there was an outcry for a change in philosophy to be more aggressive.

Our problem seems more to be players failure than coaching.


I wouldn't put the defense in nickel when the Eagles were planning to run the clock.
I wouldn't put Matthews to play with one arm.
I wouldn't put MD Jennings on the field at all.
I would have double covered Boldin after his first 51 catches.
I wouldn't call a prevent-zone in 4th and miles.
I would have changed the scheme after the first 871 yards of Kapernick.
I would have covered Calvin Johnson (oh wait, that's from the future)

Capers needs to go, seriously.

Luis
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