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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#1 Posted : Sunday, November 24, 2013 6:57:19 PM(UTC)
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I don't participate in chat during the game, because I type too slow and miss too much of the game. However, I did read a lot of it. At the low points, I saw a LOT of complaining and negativity about our D, and to only slightly lesser extent, about the O Line - the last drive of regulation especially.

I have been saying all along, Ted Thompson is to blame for the overall weakness of this team other than Aaron Rodgers. When Rodgers was playing, the D was just as bad. The O Line also NEVER gave Rodgers decent time to throw, and was more cold than hot on run blocking also - especially those times when run plays were expected.

I know there is blame for McCarthy's playcalling, Capers' defense, injuries, etc., but I say the primary problem is personnel. I was just wondering how many previous Thompson defenders are ready to criticize him for the way he has built the team.
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Offline DakotaT  
#2 Posted : Sunday, November 24, 2013 7:09:33 PM(UTC)
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I really don't think personnel is that bad. When you have two of the top 15 players in the league, that's pretty darn good. I think a major cleansing of coaching and complete overhaul of the training staff is warranted.
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Offline gbguy20  
#3 Posted : Sunday, November 24, 2013 7:15:25 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
I really don't think personnel is that bad. When you have two of the top 15 players in the league, that's pretty darn good. I think a major cleansing of coaching and complete overhaul of the training staff is warranted.


In this case, who do we get rid of? Either give our OC the play calling, or bring in an OC who can call the plays? Get rid of our damn offensive line coach, FINALLY! Get rid of our defensive backs coach? Get rid of our defensive line coach? Get rid of Capers? Get rid of our strength and condition coach? Bring on a full time yoga instructor and make it mandatory for players?

?
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Offline nerdmann  
#4 Posted : Sunday, November 24, 2013 7:16:38 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
I don't participate in chat during the game, because I type too slow and miss too much of the game. However, I did read a lot of it. At the low points, I saw a LOT of complaining and negativity about our D, and to only slightly lesser extent, about the O Line - the last drive of regulation especially.

I have been saying all along, Ted Thompson is to blame for the overall weakness of this team other than Aaron Rodgers. When Rodgers was playing, the D was just as bad. The O Line also NEVER gave Rodgers decent time to throw, and was more cold than hot on run blocking also - especially those times when run plays were expected.

I know there is blame for McCarthy's playcalling, Capers' defense, injuries, etc., but I say the primary problem is personnel. I was just wondering how many previous Thompson defenders are ready to criticize him for the way he has built the team.


I agree. Ted Thompson is responsible for the fact that we are even remotely in contention right now. lol

My god man, how many starters are we down? 16? lol

And we're like .5 games back.
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Offline DakotaT  
#5 Posted : Sunday, November 24, 2013 7:31:00 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: gbguy20 Go to Quoted Post
In this case, who do we get rid of? Either give our OC the play calling, or bring in an OC who can call the plays? Get rid of our damn offensive line coach, FINALLY! Get rid of our defensive backs coach? Get rid of our defensive line coach? Get rid of Capers? Get rid of our strength and condition coach? Bring on a full time yoga instructor and make it mandatory for players?

?


Uhm, OK! I'd be happy with Capers and Campen to start with.
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Offline Bigbyfan  
#6 Posted : Sunday, November 24, 2013 8:16:05 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
Uhm, OK! I'd be happy with Capers and Campen to start with.


Include the Strength & Conditioning and we're set.
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Offline blueleopard  
#7 Posted : Sunday, November 24, 2013 8:25:54 PM(UTC)
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Ted Thompson can be to blame in regards to us not having a quarterback out there.

Other than that, you're just mad. Calm down.
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Offline Gaycandybacon  
#8 Posted : Sunday, November 24, 2013 8:47:13 PM(UTC)
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I honestly want to get rid of Capers and get more vets on defense. Our team will be better with those 2 components. When we had players like Woodson and Colins our defense was rolling. We need some veteran presence in the secondary. Tramon Williams and Burnett is our only ones and I don't think they're the greatest leaders in the world. We need a defensive scheme that take away what a team does best and stick with something. Not get away from anything.

Get rid of Hawk and Tramon. I love these guys.. I liked what they did for this organization. They both helped us win a superbowl, but sometimes you just need sacrifice some people and bring in some fresh talent. I would also really encourage we get rid of Hawk. Now the guy is an iron man, and like Tramon he is someone I wouldn't be disappointed in resigning. BUT I think it's time we make a change. We need a playmaker in the middle of the field. Something a great defense needs. Look at guys like Luke Kuechly, Patrick Willis, Bobby Wagner, hell when Jon Beason came to the Giants this year it made their defense 10 times better. Hawk isn't getting it done.

I say we give Raji one last chance with a Franchise tag.

Move Hyde to Saftey and draft a Saftey with a high draft pick or pick up a vet Safety in FA

Draft a Middle Linebacker with a high draft pick or sign a vet in FA to sure up the Middle Linebacking core with Brad Jones, Jamari Lattimore, and Sam Barrington

And last but not least Draft a backup Passrushing OLB with a fairly high pick or (again..) pick one up in FA. This defense will be back to form with all these pieces.

Perry and Matthews have been missing time. So this can move Neal back to the D-Line and actually get someone that can come in for a game or 2 and be effective, plus it gives some rotation with Perry/Matthews here and there.


I'm sorry but I think Ted needs to bring in a Veteran in at one of these positions. I get the draft first mentality, but we need a reliable guy either in the middle of the field or the backend of the field that get these guys in position and have the defense rally behind them.






Offline beast  
#9 Posted : Sunday, November 24, 2013 9:00:07 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
I know there is blame for McCarthy's playcalling, Capers' defense, injuries, etc., but I say the primary problem is personnel. I was just wondering how many previous Thompson defenders are ready to criticize him for the way he has built the team.


I agree part of the problem has been personally (like why didn't we upgrade Walden a lot sooner and why don't we try to upgrade OLB more? ... it's one of the most, if not the most important position on defense in a 3-4 and we got a DL (Neal and D.Jones) who weren't expecting to play LB playing a ton there, in part because they haven't drafted many OLBers.

Same can probably be said about Saftey BUT honestly I didn't like this year's Safety class, a lot of good SS, but the Packers don't like SS, they perfer two FS, and FS that can hit hard.


BUT most of the other personal are because of injuries.

OL has been pretty good this year, and with fully healthy Bulaga and Sherrod it would of been even better. Van Roten was also lost from the inside.

Finley and Cobb were top X factors... gone.

On defense Shields has been injuries, Hayward has been injuried, most of the OLB have been injuried, Worthy, Jolly and Pickett have been injured.
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Offline blueleopard  
#10 Posted : Sunday, November 24, 2013 9:14:56 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Gaycandybacon Go to Quoted Post


Get rid of Hawk





You've gotta be fucking kidding me.
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Offline Gaycandybacon  
#11 Posted : Sunday, November 24, 2013 9:24:47 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: blueleopard Go to Quoted Post
You've gotta be f*cking kidding me.


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Offline rabidgopher04  
#12 Posted : Sunday, November 24, 2013 9:28:04 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Gaycandybacon Go to Quoted Post
I honestly want to get rid of Capers and get more vets on defense. Our team will be better with those 2 components. When we had players like Woodson and Colins our defense was rolling. We need some veteran presence in the secondary. Tramon Williams and Burnett is our only ones and I don't think they're the greatest leaders in the world. We need a defensive scheme that take away what a team does best and stick with something. Not get away from anything.

Get rid of Hawk and Tramon. I love these guys.. I liked what they did for this organization. They both helped us win a superbowl, but sometimes you just need sacrifice some people and bring in some fresh talent. I would also really encourage we get rid of Hawk. Now the guy is an iron man, and like Tramon he is someone I wouldn't be disappointed in resigning. BUT I think it's time we make a change. We need a playmaker in the middle of the field. Something a great defense needs. Look at guys like Luke Kuechly, Patrick Willis, Bobby Wagner, hell when Jon Beason came to the Giants this year it made their defense 10 times better. Hawk isn't getting it done.

I say we give Raji one last chance with a Franchise tag.

Move Hyde to Saftey and draft a Saftey with a high draft pick or pick up a vet Safety in FA

Draft a Middle Linebacker with a high draft pick or sign a vet in FA to sure up the Middle Linebacking core with Brad Jones, Jamari Lattimore, and Sam Barrington

And last but not least Draft a backup Passrushing OLB with a fairly high pick or (again..) pick one up in FA. This defense will be back to form with all these pieces.

Perry and Matthews have been missing time. So this can move Neal back to the D-Line and actually get someone that can come in for a game or 2 and be effective, plus it gives some rotation with Perry/Matthews here and there.


I'm sorry but I think Ted needs to bring in a Veteran in at one of these positions. I get the draft first mentality, but we need a reliable guy either in the middle of the field or the backend of the field that get these guys in position and have the defense rally behind them.


So...you want to get rid of Capers and get more veteran players. You then reference Collins and Woodson (who were both veterans playing for Capers when they were at their best). Then you claim we should get rid of Hawk (who is a veteran) for fresh talent. WHAT?!

Think
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Offline DakotaT  
#13 Posted : Sunday, November 24, 2013 9:34:15 PM(UTC)
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Apparently you guys missed that whiff Hawk had on a sure sack on 3rd down that would have forced a punt instead of leading to a touchdown. Kind of sums up his whole career in GB. I'm all for improving the play at inside linebacker, but we never seem to be able to draft that position very well. Before Hawk it was Barnett never making the big plays.
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Offline DarkaneRules  
#14 Posted : Sunday, November 24, 2013 9:35:56 PM(UTC)
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Falcons got some vets and look where they are. Ted hasn't hit on all of them no, but he is a good GM and I see no reason to let him go.
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Offline Gaycandybacon  
#15 Posted : Sunday, November 24, 2013 9:42:07 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: rabidgopher04 Go to Quoted Post
So...you want to get rid of Capers and get more veteran players. You then reference Collins and Woodson (who were both veterans playing for Capers when they were at their best). Then you claim we should get rid of Hawk (who is a veteran) for fresh talent. WHAT?!

Think


I get what you're saying.. But they made our defense run. Since they left Dom has lost it. And what has happened these past 3 years on our defense, I think it's pretty evident what needs to happen. We need a change at defensive coordinator. A fresh mind. Simple as that. I mean what do you want? We don't have a Woodson or Colins, and Capers hasn't put together a good enough scheme to win without them.

Offline beast  
#16 Posted : Sunday, November 24, 2013 9:48:08 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DarkaneRules Go to Quoted Post
Ted hasn't hit on all of them no, but he is a good GM and I see no reason to let him go.


Like you said Ted Thompson has miss on some (but all GM have swung and missed badly).


The only reasons I see to let Ted Thompson go (vs. other GMs out there) is

1) Ted Thompson hired the "best man" for the job, instead of the "best coach" for the job. Would of been interesting to see what Sean Payton would of been able to do with all these weapons.

Then again, Sean Payton has a couple of scandal with the Saints including bountygate and another one envovling him stealing pain meds and invovled with the cover-up which the NFL and Saints were able to sweep under the rug for the most part.



2) Ted Thompson (nor the rest of the Packers) haven't gotten anyone to stop all these injuries.

Then again, I don't know what they could do to stop them... but other teams seem to have less most years... so there is something different? ... right? wrong?
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Offline Gaycandybacon  
#17 Posted : Sunday, November 24, 2013 9:53:56 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
Apparently you guys missed that whiff Hawk had on a sure sack on 3rd down that would have forced a punt instead of leading to a touchdown. Kind of sums up his whole career in GB. I'm all for improving the play at inside linebacker, but we never seem to be able to draft that position very well. Before Hawk it was Barnett never making the big plays.


I just think we need a playmaker in the middle of our defense. To me a great defense needs that. Imagine our defense with a Luke Kuechly at the helm. Obviously we're not gonna just pick a Kuechly up off the street, but we need to make a change somehow.

We can play with Hawk, but it's just gonna be the same play over and over again from that part of the defense. Average. I want a guy who can help us take the ball away from the opposing team, not just make sure tackles once in a while. I need to give him credit earlier this season the guy played well, but down the stretch now he just isn't getting it done. No one is on our defense now.

Idk I just think we need a spark of some kind from the Middle Linebacker position next year, and for as good as Hawk has been with us I think we need to move on.
Offline steveishere  
#18 Posted : Sunday, November 24, 2013 9:56:45 PM(UTC)
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I don't agree with "moving on" from a player just for the sake of doing it. If someone better steps up and takes their job then yeah that's great move on but getting rid of someone just for the sake of trying someone new is how you end up with a Derek Frost.
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Offline Gaycandybacon  
#19 Posted : Sunday, November 24, 2013 10:13:52 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
I don't agree with "moving on" from a player just for the sake of doing it. If someone better steps up and takes their job then yeah that's great move on but getting rid of someone just for the sake of trying someone new is how you end up with a Derek Frost.


Teams do that all the time. I mean do we just keep those guys and hope for the best? Sometimes change is good. I just think we need a bolt on the defense. Maybe bringing in other guys will spark that bolt. It doesn't hurt when you got nothing to lose. Whether it be a change at LB or not, I don't see how it would hurt if we tried something like this if we aren't having success at all on a certain part of the team.
Offline steveishere  
#20 Posted : Sunday, November 24, 2013 10:22:22 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Gaycandybacon Go to Quoted Post
Teams do that all the time. I mean do we just keep those guys and hope for the best? Sometimes change is good. I just think we need a bolt on the defense. Maybe bringing in other guys will spark that bolt. It doesn't hurt when you got nothing to lose. Whether it be a change at LB or not, I don't see how it would hurt if we tried something like this if we aren't having success at all on a certain part of the team.


Better than straight getting rid of them and hoping for the best. It may have been done successfully before but that doesn't mean it's good business to pre replace someone when you don't have their replacement yet. Unless they are highly over paid it makes no sense to just drop a starter and go with some random unknown replacement. You can bring in a "replacement" player without cutting the starter. If he wins the job then good if not then good thing you didn't cut the starter.
Offline cheeseheads123  
#21 Posted : Sunday, November 24, 2013 10:50:04 PM(UTC)
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These are the kind of threads you will enjoy looking back at next off season after the Packers win 9 in a row
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Offline Gaycandybacon  
#22 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 1:42:04 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
Better than straight getting rid of them and hoping for the best. It may have been done successfully before but that doesn't mean it's good business to pre replace someone when you don't have their replacement yet. Unless they are highly over paid it makes no sense to just drop a starter and go with some random unknown replacement. You can bring in a "replacement" player without cutting the starter. If he wins the job then good if not then good thing you didn't cut the starter.


I'm all for that. I'm sure Ted will do everything to keep Hawk.

Depends how this season ends. If they get desperate they could do it. Hawk is indeed cheap because he took a pay cut, so that would make him valuable to keep. Though I don't wanna replace Hawk because it's been successful before, I would do it because there is possible improvement from him which imo there can be a huge improvement from him. But that's just me.

Say Hawk gets replaced as a starter in the preseason. Would it be in the best interest to release him or use him as a backup? I was kind of thinking about this before this season. Because I thought Bishop was coming back, use him in the back up role with Bishop and Brad Jones starting. We could do that next year but with someone else. Don't know if Hawk would be pushed back to a backup role though, like what happened to Double D.
Offline play2win  
#23 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 7:00:27 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: cheeseheads123 Go to Quoted Post
These are the kind of threads you will enjoy looking back at next off season after the Packers win 9 in a row


It is really very interesting. I'm a big Ted Thompson fan, overall. However, I do think he holds too rigidly to his draft and develop mantra. What we had in 2010 was a team that featured the top S in the NFL at the time in Collins, one of the top DL in the NFL in Jenkins in terms of versatility and overall impact, and one of the best players ever to grace a secondary in Woodson. To date, all of those positions are still vacant, and those lost players have not been replaced with like ability.

This points to the real value of Aaron Rodgers. Rodgers has kept us in games, helped us to win many of them, despite these losses in personnel. Now, we have spent weeks throwing lesser talents out there at QB, far lesser talents, and we have gone 0-3-1. Couple this with the players lost to injury, and this Packers team we are running out there is not looking like a very good team.

I do think Hawk, while he has lost some weight, and improved his speed, seems to be taking a step or two backwards in overall effectiveness. He's still a good player and a great leader, but he seems to be having some trouble with consistency. This makes me wonder if Lattimore wouldn't be a better player to have in there on a more regular basis alongside Brad Jones. Hell, I'd rather have Lattimore in there than Brad Jones, who is making some great plays, but then making some equally bad ones, negating his impact on our D. We've got a problem in the middle of our D.

Datone Jones has not really shown up yet. Shields being out has really exposed some shortcomings in Hyde's game, and we're having to play Jarrett Bush too much. Mike Daniels has had similar success/failure issues as has Brad Jones. Some great plays, then some stinkers where he whiffs on arm tackles. Raji looks to be playing better, but Pickett's injury is really affecting his speed and his play. Mike Neal looks improved overall in his play. CJ Wilson didn't do much to help this defense, and now he's out. Davon House missed on two golden opportunities to help us get a win yesterday with both of those missed picks. He needs to finish on those.

Should we talk about Safety? Seems we are counting on a UDFA from Vanderbilt with a recent C5-6 fusion to be our savior, along with Worthy coming off ACL. MD Jennings is horrendous. We've never found that replacement for the Pro Bowler Collins, and I think we could have tried a little bit harder there. Morgan Burnett seems to be regressing because of the lack of talent opposite him. Maybe Richardson does make an impact opposite Burnett. It would be a remarkable story. I just can't believe how deficient we are on D. We've got holes all over the place. Thank God we didn't get rid of Tramon Williams. Altogether, this makes me wonder what, if anything, we can do in the playoffs.

I haven't even addressed the coaching issues, but that staff has not shown up ready to post a Win in more than 1/4 of our season. How do we overcome that? Really! How are you as a coaching staff not ready for 4-6 of your games? For instance, how did our staff allow 40+ passing attempts v. PHI, with Seneca Wallace and Scott Tolzien as their QBs, and not a single carry for Jonathan Franklin, a 100 yd rusher? And, they've got these guys, true scrubs, passing on 3rd and short… Where has our defense stepped up to compensate for the loss of Rodgers, to help the team win? Where are our game changing plays and schemes? Instead, we're getting 12 men on the field-type stuff, twice! And, why go for two? Knowing the probability of two TDs and two 2-point conversions is really, really low? What the hell? Coaches! That's on you! wow! We would have won yesterday had we kicked the extra point!

Now, we do have to win out, and for that to happen, we're going to need everyone's best efforts, players and coaches alike. Maybe we can catch lightning in a bottle again, because that's what it is going to have to be… How good is this team Ted Thompson has assembled? We will soon find out.
Offline dhazer  
#24 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 7:23:15 AM(UTC)
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All i can say is welcome to mediocrity folks, this reminds me of the late 90's early 2000's when we always had such high hopes but would barely get to the playoffs and lose right away. I don't really think Ted Thompson did that great of a job drafting lately and the product on the field backs my statement. Don't give me well they are injured excuse because he has a tendency to draft players with injury history. Do I say replace him? No not at this time because I can't think of who we could get to replace him.

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Offline play2win  
#25 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 7:51:52 AM(UTC)
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Replacing him would be foolish. He's a great talent evaluator. He just needs to pull a couple more triggers. Make a trade or two. Sign a good FA talent. Shore up some holes, quickly.

A closer look at his draft picks and UDFA signings shows quite a bit of talent that other teams would be envious of. The impact of Lacy, Bakhtiari, Hyde, Banjo from this year alone is pretty remarkable. Franklin still has time to make an impact, as does Tretter should he be cleared to play. Last year's Hayward pick was huge for us, and Perry, Worthy and Daniels look like they may pay big dividends. Cobb and House from 2011 were both good picks, Cobb a far better one.

Lots of whiffs in there too though… some proving left to do these next bunch of weeks. Maybe Sherrod comes in and does well.

Maybe we should be looking more at what our staff is doing with these players.

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