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nerdmann  
#41 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 6:01:38 PM(UTC)
dhazer said: Go to Quoted Post
The part where you say he is a great talent evaluator is proven how? Because some of the guys are starting for us, doesn't exactly mean they would start on other teams. And as many draft picks he has every year is like me saying ok I have 17 shells in my gun and I should be able to hit you with one or 2 lol. Does that make me a marksman?

I just don't see all this talent everyone is claiming we have.



How many other teams would even be in the conversation after having lost 10+ starters? How good is the #5 tackle on most teams?

How good is the #4 QB on most teams?

Sure it'd be nice if our defenders knew who to cover on game day and stayed in their gaps, but that's a different subject.
steveishere  
#42 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 6:27:10 PM(UTC)
dhazer said: Go to Quoted Post
The part where you say he is a great talent evaluator is proven how? Because some of the guys are starting for us, doesn't exactly mean they would start on other teams. And as many draft picks he has every year is like me saying ok I have 17 shells in my gun and I should be able to hit you with one or 2 lol. Does that make me a marksman?

I just don't see all this talent everyone is claiming we have.



Ok well if hes not a very good talent evaluator that means theres a good number who are better so give us say 10 who are better.
Gaycandybacon  
#43 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 6:31:09 PM(UTC)
All I ask of Ted next year is to take a damn chance on a pretty good free agent. I know it's a broken record here, but it's time we do it for once.

Just try it for once. Hell if we aren't winning up to the standards, would it even hurt? Is it a money thing?

My argument on the matter is you can still have a good draft plus add key free agents.

Look at how much better the Bears got by adding Peppers, Marshall, those offensive lineman they picked up this year. It works.

Imagine our team with some of these key additions, it could put us over the top.. Even doing it next year we could be Super Bowl contenders

It's all fine and dandy that we've been great at drafting players for years. But it's catching up to us.

Is this the problem why we aren't winning? No. It just wouldn't hurt to try something new.
User is suspended until 4/29/2043 11:56:55 PM(UTC) texaspackerbacker  
#44 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 6:43:24 PM(UTC)
Things are tough all over. This has been an uncommonly bad year for injuries for a lot of teams.

It seems that not very many are coming around to an anti-TT point of view. That is especially ironic since several of the biggest complainers about our personnel during gametime chat are still defending him.

Does anybody seriously think we would not have won these four games with Aaron Rodgers at QB? I would contend, however, that our O-Line has been underperforming all along, our D has been sub-standard for several years - masked by outscoring teams, our RBs were awful until this season, etc.

It seems like Ted Thompson has failed miserably on first round picks. Say what you want about bad luck on injuries - which is true, but the "good luck" of having Aaron Rodgers fall that far more than makes up for the bad luck.

I don't let McCarthy off the hook either. His reputation, like TT's is completely tied to having Rodgers. and arguably he has not maximized that benefit. I wouldn't excuse Campen either, although I don't think any badness attributed to him makes much difference - it's about personnel. I would, however excuse Capers. His job/his strong point is compensation - finessing opponents with tricks because the personnel he has to work with is sub-standard. Some of you short-memory guys don't remember what was his name? Robert Sanders? and the D Coordinator who came before him - both as plain vanilla as you can get. If we did that now - no blitzing/no tricks/no outguessing - we would probably give up about 60 points a game.

If getting back Aaron Rodgers and going back to outscoring teams while our QB is perpetually running for his life due to poor line blocking, etc. is good enough, the let Ted Thompson just keep on keeping on. That probably is what will happen. I'm just saying we COULD BE a lot better than that if Ted Thompson had done his job better/built a better supporting cast.
cheeseheads123  
#45 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 6:45:24 PM(UTC)
Gaycandybacon said: Go to Quoted Post
All I ask of Ted next year is to take a damn chance on a pretty good free agent. I know it's a broken record here, but it's time we do it for once.

Just try it for once. Hell if we aren't winning up to the standards, would it even hurt? Is it a money thing?

My argument on the matter is you can still have a good draft plus add key free agents.

Look at how much better the Bears got by adding Peppers, Marshall, those offensive lineman they picked up this year. It works.

Imagine our team with some of these key additions, it could put us over the top.. Even doing it next year we could be Super Bowl contenders

It's all fine and dandy that we've been great at drafting players for years. But it's catching up to us.

Is this the problem why we aren't winning? No. It just wouldn't hurt to try something new.


If the Packers keep Capers around next year i think Jarius Bryd would do wonders for the Packers
Gaycandybacon  
#46 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 6:49:24 PM(UTC)
cheeseheads123 said: Go to Quoted Post
If the Packers keep Capers around next year i think Jarius Bryd would do wonders for the Packers


I think we should move on from Capers. His defenses are so inconsistent. We just need a fresh mind, new players, on the defense. It's for the best. Capers just lost his edge...
steveishere  
#47 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 6:56:19 PM(UTC)
Stop saying that drafting rodgers was just luck. Its not like he was considered some all time great prospect. Not to mention we already had a hall of fame qb and in his first draft instead of improving the team around him he gets his replacement. That move took some major stones that most 1st year gms probably wouldnt have had the courage to do. He took a LOT of shit for it too from what I remember. That was far from luck.
User is suspended until 4/29/2043 11:56:55 PM(UTC) texaspackerbacker  
#48 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 7:57:16 PM(UTC)
steveishere said: Go to Quoted Post
Stop saying that drafting rodgers was just luck. Its not like he was considered some all time great prospect. Not to mention we already had a hall of fame qb and in his first draft instead of improving the team around him he gets his replacement. That move took some major stones that most 1st year gms probably wouldnt have had the courage to do. He took a LOT of sh!t for it too from what I remember. That was far from luck.


If you remember, he was 50/50 to be the top pick in the draft according to all the so-called experts. The LUCK was NOT in drafting him - I give Ted Thompson credit for that. The LUCK was in having the opportunity to draft him.

play2win  
#49 Posted : Tuesday, November 26, 2013 8:09:25 AM(UTC)
dhazer said: Go to Quoted Post
The part where you say he is a great talent evaluator is proven how? Because some of the guys are starting for us, doesn't exactly mean they would start on other teams. And as many draft picks he has every year is like me saying ok I have 17 shells in my gun and I should be able to hit you with one or 2 lol. Does that make me a marksman?

I just don't see all this talent everyone is claiming we have.



Your point is well taken dhazer. I did mention there were a lot of whiffs, and that it was dependent on a good number of players I listed turning the corner with what is left in the remainder of this season. If Sherrod doesn't contribute, if Perry stays on the sidelines, if Worthy doesn't make an impact, if Richardson does nothing special, if Cobb doesn't make it back, if Datone doesn't contribute, Palmer, Boyd, Tretter, McMillian, House, Neal, Burnett, Quarless, Newhouse, Starks… That's 4 years worth of picks and UDFA signings, and there is still opportunity for all of those players to either make something happen or tank.

Go deeper, the previous 4 years, and we've got Raji, Matthews, Lang, Brad Jones, Jordy Nelson, Sitton, Flynn, James Jones, Mason Crosby, Hawk, and Jolly. And then, the first year at the helm as GM of the Packers, we have Rodgers.

I think the jury is still out. Lots of proving to take place one way or another to realize whether Ted is really good, or nothing particularly special. Are we a good team or are we not? It is kind of hard to say right now. The real proving is about to take place to determine that.

We will see. Look at the team's draft success Rounds 1-3 over the past 3 years, and look who leads the way:
http://www.bloggingthebo...ss-in-first-three-rounds

Green Bay is ranked 3rd from last. Yet, how many teams in the Top 15 have won Super Bowls? ZERO! Teams in the bottom 15 have won the last 8 Super Bowls in a row.

Looking at the last 5 years, overall draft success brings us more to middle of the road, according to this FWIW:
http://bleacherreport.co...ir-draft-success/page/15

Bigger point in this is that "team building" is not necessarily all about players drafted, and their physical prominence or prowess. There are character issues, coaching philosophies and personalities that require a collective focus to win, from top to bottom in the organization. I would say this is a really good group of players, with pretty damn good character, making them a stronger team, maybe better than their raw talents. We will see how strong, and if they can get the job of "winning" done. Every GM has plenty of whiffs in the draft. That goes with the territory. Just because Ted usually winds up with a higher number of picks doesn't mean he is a complete shotgun selector. He has done his share of trades up to land the players he likes with the extra picks, enough to dispel that monicker. He does have a very hard draft and develop philosophy. Not much we as fans can do about that.

Right now, they don't look like a very good team overall. There is still time for them to turn that around. Players and coaches, led by Ted Thompson. BTW, if you hit with the one shell out of many, and get the job done, you've still gotten the job done. These are the days that build character. We'll see if it works or not.
play2win  
#50 Posted : Tuesday, November 26, 2013 8:17:06 AM(UTC)
Gaycandybacon said: Go to Quoted Post
I think we should move on from Capers. His defenses are so inconsistent. We just need a fresh mind, new players, on the defense. It's for the best. Capers just lost his edge...


I'm thinking this is posing more of a problem for our team than we might be thinking. Granted, he has been trying the two previous seasons to do things without the right players, as the draft and develop process can prove to be a slow one. We have yet to replace Collins, Jenkins and Woodson, all three dynamic play makers on D.

I'll add player availability has been horrific. Strength and Conditioning has been as much of a problem for this team as has been Capers and what looks to be his lost edge.
Tezzy  
#51 Posted : Tuesday, November 26, 2013 8:24:08 AM(UTC)
If there is someone that's right to improve the coaching staff to make the team play better, I am all for it. I am not burning a torch for dumping Capers exactly, but it is frustrating to watch the inconsistencies from week to week. Each week it seems like a handful of of different players come to play.

This last game against the Queens, our front line really missed Jolly. And that highlighted the rest of the weaknesses of the middle of this defense all the way to the back end. Schematically I can't say what should change to make the middle of the defense better. One week I watched our outside defense miss play after play, and then another week the middle of the defense gets gashed play after play. There are flashes of good defense from all units, but not usually together as a team.

Of course better personnel can always help a team improve. Our defense is lacking at LB and S, and I lay that on Ted. I think it's a team effort all the way down in the performance of the Packers right now. I am still invested in the season though. The next two weeks will clear the picture up hopefully in a good fashion.
play2win  
#52 Posted : Tuesday, November 26, 2013 8:59:36 AM(UTC)
Tezzy said: Go to Quoted Post
If there is someone that's right to improve the coaching staff to make the team play better, I am all for it. I am not burning a torch for dumping Capers exactly, but it is frustrating to watch the inconsistencies from week to week. Each week it seems like a handful of of different players come to play.

This last game against the Queens, our front line really missed Jolly. And that highlighted the rest of the weaknesses of the middle of this defense all the way to the back end. Schematically I can't say what should change to make the middle of the defense better. One week I watched our outside defense miss play after play, and then another week the middle of the defense gets gashed play after play. There are flashes of good defense from all units, but not usually together as a team.

Of course better personnel can always help a team improve. Our defense is lacking at LB and S, and I lay that on Ted. I think it's a team effort all the way down in the performance of the Packers right now. I am still invested in the season though. The next two weeks will clear the picture up hopefully in a good fashion.


You are SO right Tezzy! Our LB and S play have been pretty much abysmal. That kills any D. And, the line is indeed missing Jolly's presence. Something has to happen to get them to start lighting up other teams. Maybe, we just do not have the personnel. Teams like SF and SEA have incredible defensive players at these positions, and it makes all the difference in the world.

Either our entire team turns this around and starts playing better, coaching better, or they don't and we tank the season. If anything, we have consistently missed assignments on D. And, that's bad.
nerdmann  
#53 Posted : Tuesday, November 26, 2013 12:26:23 PM(UTC)
dhazer said: Go to Quoted Post
The part where you say he is a great talent evaluator is proven how? Because some of the guys are starting for us, doesn't exactly mean they would start on other teams. And as many draft picks he has every year is like me saying ok I have 17 shells in my gun and I should be able to hit you with one or 2 lol. Does that make me a marksman?

I just don't see all this talent everyone is claiming we have.



There are plenty of Ted's draft picks who play for other teams.

When the Packers cut a guy, other teams come sniffing around. Hell, look at all the rejects in Minny.
nerdmann  
#54 Posted : Tuesday, November 26, 2013 12:29:25 PM(UTC)
play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
Your point is well taken dhazer. I did mention there were a lot of whiffs, and that it was dependent on a good number of players I listed turning the corner with what is left in the remainder of this season. If Sherrod doesn't contribute, if Perry stays on the sidelines, if Worthy doesn't make an impact, if Richardson does nothing special, if Cobb doesn't make it back, if Datone doesn't contribute, Palmer, Boyd, Tretter, McMillian, House, Neal, Burnett, Quarless, Newhouse, Starks… That's 4 years worth of picks and UDFA signings, and there is still opportunity for all of those players to either make something happen or tank.

Go deeper, the previous 4 years, and we've got Raji, Matthews, Lang, Brad Jones, Jordy Nelson, Sitton, Flynn, James Jones, Mason Crosby, Hawk, and Jolly. And then, the first year at the helm as GM of the Packers, we have Rodgers.

I think the jury is still out. Lots of proving to take place one way or another to realize whether Ted is really good, or nothing particularly special. Are we a good team or are we not? It is kind of hard to say right now. The real proving is about to take place to determine that.

We will see. Look at the team's draft success Rounds 1-3 over the past 3 years, and look who leads the way:
http://www.bloggingthebo...ss-in-first-three-rounds

Green Bay is ranked 3rd from last. Yet, how many teams in the Top 15 have won Super Bowls? ZERO! Teams in the bottom 15 have won the last 8 Super Bowls in a row.

Looking at the last 5 years, overall draft success brings us more to middle of the road, according to this FWIW:
http://bleacherreport.co...ir-draft-success/page/15

Bigger point in this is that "team building" is not necessarily all about players drafted, and their physical prominence or prowess. There are character issues, coaching philosophies and personalities that require a collective focus to win, from top to bottom in the organization. I would say this is a really good group of players, with pretty damn good character, making them a stronger team, maybe better than their raw talents. We will see how strong, and if they can get the job of "winning" done. Every GM has plenty of whiffs in the draft. That goes with the territory. Just because Ted usually winds up with a higher number of picks doesn't mean he is a complete shotgun selector. He has done his share of trades up to land the players he likes with the extra picks, enough to dispel that monicker. He does have a very hard draft and develop philosophy. Not much we as fans can do about that.

Right now, they don't look like a very good team overall. There is still time for them to turn that around. Players and coaches, led by Ted Thompson. BTW, if you hit with the one shell out of many, and get the job done, you've still gotten the job done. These are the days that build character. We'll see if it works or not.


Great article.

Quote:


After taking Aaron Rodgers in 2005, the Packers haven’t found stars in the first round, but have found above-average starters like Clay Matthews and AJ Hawk.


LOL. Yeah, Clay isn't a star, he's just pretty good. Like AJ Hawk!
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