DakotaT
10 years ago

Hehe. S'ok, I generally prefer ladies in their late 20s at least.

RE: grade you would have received:

1. Early in my teaching career, your grade would have been reduced by your spelling and homonym issues. Now, probably not.
2. If I had caught you earlier, I have a sneaking suspicion you would now be channeling your compassion in less liberal babble. Not because I'm a great indoctrinator, but because you'd be better at seeing the idiocies of CNN, Michael Moore, and King B.0.
2A. Then again, maybe not. I'm just a journeyman at this teaching thing. If you would have had some of my teachers however, I bet you would.

Originally Posted by: Wade 



Do you actually believe I would turn in work that wasn't grammatically sound? The reason I don't give a shit now is that I'm usually in the middle of 15 hour work days, raising a family, caring for a child with cancer, and trying to carry on multiple arguments/discussions with dumbasses that have plenty of spare time on they're hands to look shit up to regurgitate. I once completed a 3 credit college course in 1 weekend and they had to change the online rules because of me. I'm quite proud of that actually. You guys are lightweights and I laugh at some of the pompous attitudes presented, not necessarily yours Wade.
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Zero2Cool
10 years ago

Cum laude bitch, and I didn't even try! I just no longer use my education because it's a lot more lucrative to own a business and work in the energy industry than being a number cruncher sitting in an office chair.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



Yeah, because MSU is so difficult. Please. They hand out degree's like a prostitute passes around STD's... you probably had some instructor like Wade who just GIVES grades out and with how much of a butt smoocher you are, no one is surprised you gradated as a Cum laude bitch.


I weep for our future.
UserPostedImage
texaspackerbacker
10 years ago

Cum laude bitch. and I didn't even try! I just no longer use my education because it's a lot more lucrative to own a business and work in the energy industry than being a number cruncher sitting in an office chair. Those that say you need an education to become successful are full of shit. I don't regret having a Bachelor's Degree though. I might use it again some day when I'm an old fuck like you! But I think I might just cash in and look at sunsets on an ocean somewhere tropical for my retirement days. I really dislike the ugliness in this country.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



Cum Laude bitch? That must be related to your HOMOnym issues hahahahaha. (or is it mere PUNKtuation?)

Your words sound strangely like those of the people you HATE so much - achievers/entrepreneurs.

I tend to agree with your view of education.

You probably won't make it to "old fart" status - you'll work yourself into an early grave instead.

Tropical sunsets are nice, I can say that first hand, but there's a lot to be said for the freedom and comfort in this country too. Any ugliness can be attributed to those leftists who you worship and the CHANGE they have wrought.

Happy New Year to you and yours.
Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
DoddPower
10 years ago

Tropical sunsets are nice, I can say that first hand, but there's a lot to be said for the freedom and comfort in this country too.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



Hawaii.
DakotaT
10 years ago

Yeah, because MSU is so difficult. Please. They hand out degree's like a prostitute passes around STD's... you probably had some instructor like Wade who just GIVES grades out and with how much of a butt smoocher you are, no one is surprised you gradated as a Cum laude bitch.


I weep for our future.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Yet you still need my extra skills occasionally. Uffda boy!!!!!


[roflmao] [roflmao] [roflmao] [roflmao]
UserPostedImage
DakotaT
10 years ago



Your words sound strangely like those of the people you HATE so much - achievers/entrepreneurs.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



See this is where you are confused. I don't hate them per se. I'm just very appalled that they have the nerve to cry, piss, and moan about paying the taxes that go along with their success. It's greed I hate, and the hypocrisy these people have by thinking they are Christians, not the actual people themselves. There is a real big flaw in your whole perception of me.

Happy New Years to you to Texas. One day we'll discuss why I'm such an asshole to you, but for now, we'll just all enjoy the ride. [grin1]
UserPostedImage
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member Topic Starter
10 years ago

I once completed a 3 credit college course in 1 weekend and they had to change the online rules because of me. I'm quite proud of that actually. You guys are lightweights and I laugh at some of the pompous attitudes presented, not necessarily yours Wade.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



I remember when I went to college, I was told to expect a minimum of 2-3 hours of work outside of class for every hour of credit I took. Math, language courses, others that assigned specific daily homework exercises, I was told, usually meant more. Science courses with labs (which was all of them, then, unlike now) -- well, expect the labs to take as long as it took, and some of them (intro bio, intro chem) were notorious for "going 3-4 hours or more with great regularity. My French 1 class was entirely in French (including every word in the textbook) -- it was about a third of the way through the term when I finally got the courage to go to the profs office and found out she actually spoke English (and was from southern california).

This gradually evolved. About ten years ago, "minimum of 2-3 hours per..." became "up to 2-3 hours".

Now? Well, based on what students self-report on their course evaluations (of profs, not of us), about half of students spend less than 2-3 hours per week.

A big part of this, of course, is due to the mistaken belief that everyone has to have a college degree. And so we have what the statistical types call a "bi-modal" distribution of students. About half have come out of the top third of their high schools -- these are the same sort of people who went to college straight from high school for the fifties, sixties, seventies, and part of the eighties.

The other half? Mostly from the next third, with extra weight on the people at the bottom of that range, between the 30th and the 50th percentile.

Personally, I don't think most of the people going to college today should be in college. Not because they are too "dumb", though, but because they are not ready for college level work, they have better things to do with their early adulthood, or both. But put that aside -- it's a free country and if they think a college education is what is needed, then they should be free to make as many dunderheaded and expensive and life-wasting decisions as I and others have made as adults.

But effectively teaching a bi-modal group is next to impossible the way the education system is set up. At least I have found it so.

When I abandoned my first career and went back to graduate school, it was because I wanted to teach. But I did not want to teach high schoolers -- my memories as one of the bookish in high school are mostly unpleasant, and I wanted to be in a place where students were there because they wanted to be there and because they, more or less, liked the kind of thinking/activity that used books/libraries/classrooms/etc., people who liked the idea of hanging out with and talking with professor/teacher types.

Oh, I realize that college was never this kind of ideal -- my late brother was a frat boy from whom I learned to expect a college town to have something like Water Street in Eau Claire (where he went) or State Street in Madison (where my sister went). Partying, sports, sex -- these are and were a big part of the life, too.

But what is different is this: in my day, in my brother's, everyone accepted that "the academics" were a full time job that came lots of overtime and weekend work. That when push comes to shove, and something has to give, it is the other stuff that must give. You want to do the Greek thing like John Belushi in Animal House? Well, you might be able to do it, but you ain't going to graduate. You want/need to work full time? Well, then you're going to have to give up your weekends and work into the wee hours on your books. You want to get involved in a cause or political campaign? Well, you better go part time or take a semester off? You want to keep getting the A's you got in high school, well, expect to work most weekends and still be disappointed because the kids here are a lot tougher competition than they were in high school?

Well, that world is gone. They aren't called "extra-curricular" activities any more. They're called "co-curricular" activities, and the academic part is the less important part.

Be clear here: the real problem is not that we emphasize sports and similar extra/co-curricular activities too much (though personally, I think we do). The real problem is not that the professorial types are ivory tower types with little understanding of the "real world" (though, IMO, we are).

No, the real problem is that acquiring the real skills that colleges and universities at their best have been about is bloody hard work, stuff that takes as much work and practice and time as any professional job.

I don't mean the skills of the 3 R's -- while, of necessity we find ourselves having to spend a lot of time on these, those are skills that students should have before starting college.

I mean the next-order skills that one builds on a foundation of those 3 R's, life experience, and habits of careful thinking and observation. Skills of synthesizing information from a variety of sources. Skills of being to assess and evaluate that information. Skills of collaborating with people with different interests and motivations. Skills of being able to do all these things without supervision and detailed instructions. Skills of knowing when to lead and when to follow. Skills of knowing when to draw an analogy and when not to. Skills of listening. Skills of logic and empirics and observation. Skills of learning how to deal with assholes and the unfairness of life that go beyond pointing fingers of blame and running home to mommy, daddy, and Big Brother.

We can debate whether going off to college is the best way for a 20-year-old to acquire and develop these next-order skills. I personally think we need to find a way to return to the older master/apprentice model.

But the reality is that before we can find the best way, we must first understand and accept that whatever way we choose will demand full-time attention (or more) from the student/apprentice/learner/whatever. And they -- and we, as the society who allows them the time to give that attention -- must accept that demand. The student/apprentice must accept the reality that adults -- even learning adults -- don't get the choice of "both" anywhere as often as the spoiled child does. Those of us who would have our young adults do this learning must accept the reality that they're going to have to be supported. Those of us who would have those learners do other things, whether they are sports, frats, jobs, music groups, political action, or anything else, must recognize that we are going to be relegated to second place or third place or fourth place.

And we need to understand that we're not talking about finding ways to do all these things for an elite 5-10% of the young adult like the old days. We have to find ways of doing all these things for 50-70% of that population,

Until we do that, until we come to grips with what those potential learners of skills must be doing with *the great majority of their waking hours,* all the ideas and the government funding and the task groups and the yammering about the problems of higher education are going.

Because Kevin is absolutely correct. It's not about giving those young adults anything. It's not about serving them. It's not about centering ourselves on their needs. It's about what they can (l)earn. It's about the time they put into it, and how they put the time in.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member Topic Starter
10 years ago
One other bit: While the bi-modal distribution of students makes my job and those of my fellow prof-teacher-types more difficult, mine is NOT a call to start discouraging those between the 30th and 70ths percentiles from going to college because they are in between the 30th and 70th percentiles. I think ALL 18-year olds should be presumptively discouraged from going to college regardless of how well they did in high school or on the SAT/ACT.

The problem isn't that we're admitting students who are intellectually not "up to it." That's just elitist bullshit. The problem is that we are failing to insist on sufficient commitment to the enterprise of learning next-order skills, commitment that exceeds their commitment to anything else. (Or, at least, to channel the great Vince, anything other than God and family.)

I would rather work with students who had a high school GPA of 2.4 and an ACT of 15 who was willing to put in 50,60,70, whatever it takes hours to learn the skills I want him or her to develop, than students who had a GPA of 4.0 and an ACT of 32 who is trying to "fit academics in" among his/her desire to sing soprano, write for the college newspaper, travel with the debate team, and play on the soccer team.


And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
texaspackerbacker
10 years ago

See this is where you are confused. I don't hate them per se. I'm just very appalled that they have the nerve to cry, piss, and moan about paying the taxes that go along with their success. It's greed I hate, and the hypocrisy these people have by thinking they are Christians, not the actual people themselves. There is a real big flaw in your whole perception of me.

Happy New Years to you to Texas. One day we'll discuss why I'm such an asshole to you, but for now, we'll just all enjoy the ride. [grin1]

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



It's kinda strange how you always try to twist things around to being about yourself.

It is NORMAL and NATURAL for anybody/everybody to hate having their own money grabbed by corrupt and wasteful politicians i.e. taxes.

Being a Christian - or not - is 1. a matter of heart and mind, about which neither you nor I nor any person other than the individual are qualified to judge and 2. a matter of very specific criteria outlined in the Bible - commonly called the "means of Salvation" - which you have consistently demonstrated that you know very little about. Your labeling of a whole very large class of people as hypocritically something other than Christian is in itself the height of hypocrisy and Biblical ignorance.

I really don't care one way or the other about you "being an asshole to me" - I didn't even realize I was being singled out hahahaha. It ain't about me; It's all about America and Americans in general, both of which you irrationally but consistently disrespect and spew hate about. But what the hell, go for it if that's the way you roll. What's gonna happen is gonna happen regardless of your or my poor power to add or detract.

With the new year beginning, may God CONTINUE to bless the United States of America, the greatest force for good in the history of the world - even though you probably will spit on that concept, Dakota hahahaha, as your past words so often demonstrate.
Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
DoddPower
10 years ago
I don't know Wade, but my education was basically exactly as your described. Unbelievably hard work, long hours, long weekend work, etc. In fact, it was my routine to study on Friday afternoon/night until about 7 pm (which equated to about 6 hours). Most students checked out early on Fridays, around 1 pm or so. I usually took Saturdays off unless it was an extra busy time. I got right back to it on Sundays and studied for at least 3-5 hours. During the week, I also studied or read in between classes, which was at least a few hours every day of the week. I didn't necessarily study every night after classes, but I often did . . . so at least a few hours a week. All in all, the model of at least 2-3 hours of study time for each credit hour held mostly true. Of course there were some classes that were exceptions, but there are always exceptions. A lot of that has to do with the Professor. Also, other students spent less time studying, but those were generally students who either understood the material more easily than me, or just didn't have a true passion for what they were doing. Many of those individuals careers today reflect that lack of passion, so that seems fair to me.

Of course I stayed in the engineering, chemistry, physics, biology, and other science classes, so maybe that's why. You liberal art studies people are a different bunch. Those disciplines teach great life skills, which may ultimately be more important than technical job skills, but that still doesn't make it any easier to find a job afterwards. Of course, I know a lot of people that are afraid to move for jobs, which really limits their ability to maximize their talent. I was having a hard time finding a good job in the small town I was recently living in, so I moved across the country to correct that. It wasn't easy--and it still isn't--to be far away from all my friends and family, and not even realistically be able to make a weekend trip to see them (between the time off, plane tickets, etc.). But, it's what I, and many others, have to do to make the living we want. At least for a few years. One of my professors always told me "Do whatever it takes--wherever it takes--to get your experience, then worry about where you are living." I found that advice to be particularly true in today's world. There are good jobs available for most college graduates in the world . . . if they are willing to pursue and take them. I see so many of the people I grew up with complaining about how they can't find a job, but yet refuse to leave the tourist industry town they grew up in. True, it's a great place to live, but if they make the decision to stay there, they must accept the consequences and not complain about the tables they must wait to get by, despite that fancy psychology/philosophy/communications degree they have.

EDIT: And the above was all about undergrad. In graduate school, it was a full-time job and much more. I regularly worked 60 hour weeks, and sometimes more. My PhD office-mate routinely worked 75+ hour weeks, and often more than that. There was one PhD student that complained about working 100 hour weeks, but I'm not sure if she was exaggerating, or not. Perhaps that's just how experimental research projects go, though. Also, most students seemed to have a great mentor relationship with their research adviser, or at least their committee members.
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