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Offline wpr  
#1 Posted : Monday, February 10, 2014 6:15:18 AM(UTC)
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JSOnline wrote:
As a result of general manager Ted Thompson's long-standing draft-and-develop philosophy, the Green Bay Packers enter the off-season in a different fraternity from the Seattle Seahawks, San Francisco 49ers, Carolina Panthers and New Orleans Saints.

The Packers' roommates are teams like the Oakland Raiders, Jacksonville Jaguars, Cleveland Browns and Miami Dolphins.

Those are not exactly the teams you want to be grouped with during the regular season, but in the off-season being housemates with such a conspicuous bunch of also-rans is what you might consider a feather in your cap.

It is especially so if you have one of the best quarterbacks in the game signed to a long-term deal, a ton of offensive talent and three consecutive division titles in the bank because it means you didn't earn the salary cap room by being one of the worst teams in the NFL.

What the Packers have in common with those bottom dwellers is that they are among the leaders in salary cap space heading into the 2014 season.




Been through this before. It don't matter what we say or think. Uncle Teddy is too afraid to get quality FAs. He doesn't have the skill or the confidence to go that route.
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Offline wpr  
#2 Posted : Monday, February 10, 2014 6:29:58 AM(UTC)
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Tom continues wrote:
So while they have lots of cap space, maybe their passivity in free agency is a reason the Packers have not risen to the top of the NFC since winning Super Bowl XLV — something they did with the help of two key free agents, Charles Woodson and Pickett.

The Packers have been able to stay in the hunt every year, but they have not taken the chances the others have to get to the very top.
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Offline play2win  
#3 Posted : Monday, February 10, 2014 7:21:26 AM(UTC)
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Boy, those two excerpts tell the entire story. Great, we're in decent cap shape. Last I heard, no one gives out Lombardi Trophies for that…

I'm confident that Ted can do it, find the right Free Agent player(s) to help get us back on top. It is just a question of if and when. What we have seen, and I believe he has seen, is strict adherence to D&D inhibits the building of a true championship contending team. I am hoping he sees this anyhow, and that he acts on it to make our team better by making some philosophical changes to his approach in building out the 2014 team.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#4 Posted : Monday, February 10, 2014 7:36:21 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
Been through this before. It don't matter what we say or think. Uncle Teddy is too afraid to get quality FAs. He doesn't have the skill or the confidence to go that route.


This is a BS comment. First, he isn't Uncle Teddy. Secondly Ted Thompson is not afraid to get quality free agents. Thompson merely refuses to OVERSPEND for ANY free agent. There is a massively vast difference there. I think Thompson goes on vacation the first week of free agency just to avoid temptation. That is speculative of course.

The player has to fit the Packers scheme.
The player has to be willing to play for the Packers.

This isn't just a Ted Thompson thing. There are many moving pieces and to blindly say Thompson, err Teddy is afraid to get quality free agents is just obtuse.

One of the things many fans love about the Packers is the blue collar aspect. The small town aspect. The historical aspect. Even the cold aspect. Well, most of those things work AGAINST the Packers in landing free agents. Not to mention the Packers do not have a deep pocketed owner who can afford to spend $100 million on someone like Albert Haynesworth and have it be a complete bust. If the Packers did this, it would set them back nearly five years if not more!


Again, what free agents were available that the Packers should have signed for their contract? No one ever has a legit answer to this, yet we all run around saying "sign free agents".

Shit on that! Learn to coach up the damn players drafted. Do your damn 'draft and develop' gooder, especially the friggin develop part! How long we gonna wait for many of these guys to finally develop?


btw, please sign Jarius Byrd and Brian Orakpo, k thanks Auntie Theodore.
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Offline play2win  
#5 Posted : Monday, February 10, 2014 7:41:43 AM(UTC)
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I always put my FA wish lists out there… and, they get dashed through a very long, arduous process of waiting, and waiting, and waiting, until they are all signed by other teams. Happens every year since 2007.
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wpr on 2/10/2014(UTC)
Offline QCHuskerFan  
#6 Posted : Monday, February 10, 2014 9:25:26 AM(UTC)
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Example #1 for why Ted's way is better.

2013 offseason. Many Packer fans are screaming for Ted to sign Steven Jackson to solve running game. Ted drafts Eddie Lacy to draft and develop philosophy.

Falcons now have a broken down RB for $12M over 3 years. Packers have Eddie at $4M for 4 years. Jackson 734 yards and 7 TD's, Lacy 1435 yards and 11 TD's.

Winner?

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Offline QCHuskerFan  
#7 Posted : Monday, February 10, 2014 9:44:05 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
Boy, those two excerpts tell the entire story. Great, we're in decent cap shape. Last I heard, no one gives out Lombardi Trophies for that…


According to one estimate on cap space, the 5 teams with the least Cap space heading into 2014 are:
Cowboys
Saints
Steelers
Lions
Chargers

How many Trophies have these teams won in the last couple years?
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nerdmann on 2/10/2014(UTC)
Offline nerdmann  
#8 Posted : Monday, February 10, 2014 9:55:51 AM(UTC)
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We all know it was injuries that killed us this year. Again.
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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#9 Posted : Monday, February 10, 2014 10:17:09 AM(UTC)
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JSOnline wrote:
As a result of general manager Ted Thompson's long-standing draft-and-develop philosophy, the Green Bay Packers enter the off-season in a different fraternity from the Seattle Seahawks, San Francisco 49ers, Carolina Panthers and New Orleans Saints.

The Packers' roommates are teams like the Oakland Raiders, Jacksonville Jaguars, Cleveland Browns and Miami Dolphins.

Those are not exactly the teams you want to be grouped with during the regular season, but in the off-season being housemates with such a conspicuous bunch of also-rans is what you might consider a feather in your cap.

It is especially so if you have one of the best quarterbacks in the game signed to a long-term deal, a ton of offensive talent and three consecutive division titles in the bank because it means you didn't earn the salary cap room by being one of the worst teams in the NFL.

What the Packers have in common with those bottom dwellers is that they are among the leaders in salary cap space heading into the 2014 season.



WHY are we not as bad as those "roommates"? One reason: Aaron Rodgers. When he was out, we were exposed for being just that bad.

Nobody is saying we should have signed Haynesworth or Steven Jackson, etc. - I sure as hell wasn't saying it at the time. Thompson is correct not to go hog wild in free agency, but he is wrong to be as hyper-cautious as he has been. The Packers are NEAR the top of the NFL - mainly because of Aaron Rodgers. However, they could be a LOT better team with just a few strategic free agent signings - Safety this year being prime among those - Jarius Byrd or T.J. Ward. Another alternative would be to sign Alterraun Verner and convert Hayward or Tramon Williams to Safety. I'm not even sure we should go after a LB - particularly not Orakpo, who would be the most expensive and has had injury problems. The Steeler guy is younger and probably a lot cheaper, and maybe better. For that matter, we probably could handle LB through the draft.

It doesn't take much; Thompson just needs to get off his ass and make it happen.
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Offline play2win  
#10 Posted : Monday, February 10, 2014 10:25:34 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan Go to Quoted Post
Example #1 for why Ted's way is better.

2013 offseason. Many Packer fans are screaming for Ted to sign Steven Jackson to solve running game. Ted drafts Eddie Lacy to draft and develop philosophy.

Falcons now have a broken down RB for $12M over 3 years. Packers have Eddie at $4M for 4 years. Jackson 734 yards and 7 TD's, Lacy 1435 yards and 11 TD's.

Winner?



Was it luck that brought Lacy to us at pick #61? I kind of think so. That was a fantastic pick and a great turn for our team. We needed a legit power RB, a feature RB. But, Lacy literally fell into our laps, much like Rodgers did in 2005.

I'm not saying we should be blowing huge sums of money on anybody. I'm merely stating that there is a balance that should exist on any team in adding both young talent via the draft, and experienced, effective veteran talent via FA and trades. Personally, I think we've thrown ourselves off balance by sticking to D&D as our sole means of talent acquisition. And, it clearly shows.
thanks Post received 1 applause.
texaspackerbacker on 2/10/2014(UTC)
Offline cheeseheads123  
#11 Posted : Monday, February 10, 2014 10:35:53 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
Was it luck that brought Lacy to us at pick #61? I kind of think so. That was a fantastic pick and a great turn for our team. We needed a legit power RB, a feature RB. But, Lacy literally fell into our laps, much like Rodgers did in 2005.

I'm not saying we should be blowing huge sums of money on anybody. I'm merely stating that there is a balance that should exist on any team in adding both young talent via the draft, and experienced, effective veteran talent via FA and trades. Personally, I think we've thrown ourselves off balance by sticking to D&D as our sole means of talent acquisition. And, it clearly shows.


Never understood the whole getting lucky that a player fell into a team's lap argument. You still have to pull the trigger. Not to mention you see all these teams passing on the player it would be hard not to second guess yourself.
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Offline cheeseheads123  
#12 Posted : Monday, February 10, 2014 10:43:23 AM(UTC)
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The combination of having the best qb in the league and being far under the salary cap is a big advantage.
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Offline Laser Gunns  
#13 Posted : Monday, February 10, 2014 10:45:09 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: cheeseheads123 Go to Quoted Post
Never understood the whole getting lucky that a player fell into a team's lap argument. You still have to pull the trigger. Not to mention you see all these teams passing on the player it would be hard not to second guess yourself.



22 of Seahawks 53 are un drafted.

It's all about scouting and coaching.



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Offline buckeyepackfan  
#14 Posted : Monday, February 10, 2014 10:57:52 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: cheeseheads123 Go to Quoted Post
Never understood the whole getting lucky that a player fell into a team's lap argument. You still have to pull the trigger. Not to mention you see all these teams passing on the player it would be hard not to second guess yourself.


Agree, it amazes me how John Schneider and that idiot coach up there are being deemed geniuses because they drafted players like Wilson and Sherman among others in the later rnds, yet when Ted grabs Lacy in the 2nd rnd it was just luck.

See Zero's earlier post, up until the last line it makes a lot of sense. Laughing

I didn't read the whole article, but I am pretty sure the teams That The Packers are being lumped with do not have 16 fa's and a couple of rfa's that either need to be resigned or let go.

The Packers may look to have a lot of money available, but a good portion is going to go toward resigning their own.

Keep an eye on what happens with Tramon Williams, until he is released, extended, or is allowed to play out his contract, that will determine whether Ted may be going to jump into the FA market.

The Packers need that 6-7 mil that could be freed up by extending(preferred) or releasing Tramon to be able to look at who is available in FA, or to sign Sam Shields(preferred).



Enjoy the ride – It kicks and just keeps on kickin’. "Stats are for Losers"
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Offline play2win  
#15 Posted : Monday, February 10, 2014 11:08:05 AM(UTC)
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So, there was no luck at all with Ted Thompson drafting Eddie Lacy at #61 in R2 in 2013? Really? A feature RB was one of our very top team needs going into the offseason. But, having Lacy fall to us at 61 wasn't luck… OK.

Rodgers dropping to #24 in 2005 wasn't luck either, with Favre expressing his wish to retire soon. Nope.
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wpr on 2/10/2014(UTC)
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#16 Posted : Monday, February 10, 2014 11:34:01 AM(UTC)
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I believe that the draft and develop is the correct way to run an NFL organization, if willing to spend when the time is right. The question being is the time right, or has it been right. This year might be our best window to push all in for the SB. We have pretty limited areas of need to fill, and there is no telling if the players available will match our needs.

Drafting BPA and developing them is a great way to build a team, but eventually, unless extremely lucky, you will end up needing a position that isn't available to be filled by drafting. Is there a Starting FS to draft this year, I don't see one. There are some that have the potential, but not a day one player. So if we depend on the draft, it will still be 2 or 3 years to fill that hole. Can we wait? What players are going to leave and need to be replaced by that time? We are seeming to be treading water, rather than getting closer to the goal.

We are going to have Jordy, Sitton, Cobb and others coming due on contracts. Are we going to be able, and are we going to want to keep them given age, and salaries they will demand.

I think if we really believe in the draft and develop strategy, we should have the confidence that we can make some FA moves now, and even though it will cost us some of our veteran players the next couple years, we should be able to replace those players lost through draft and development.

If we don't do it this year or next, we are going to be approaching the window for Lacy to get paid? and to the end of Rodgers and Clays contracts? Will we be able to afford to do it later.

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Offline QCHuskerFan  
#17 Posted : Monday, February 10, 2014 11:38:24 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
So, there was no luck at all with Ted Thompson drafting Eddie Lacy at #61 in R2 in 2013? Really? A feature RB was one of our very top team needs going into the offseason. But, having Lacy fall to us at 61 wasn't luck… OK.

Rodgers dropping to #24 in 2005 wasn't luck either, with Favre expressing his wish to retire soon. Nope.


One could make the argument that there is 'luck' involved with every draft pick other than the #1.

The Packers were needing a QB in '05. That doesn't mean there wasn't luck involved with Rodgers falling down the board. 2 separate events. Was it good luck that Nelson was available in the 3rd? Was it good luck that Shields was undrafted and chose to come to GB? Was it bad luck that Sherrod was available at #32 in 2011?

Or a person can accept that sometimes things work just like planned and sometimes they don't.
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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#18 Posted : Monday, February 10, 2014 12:04:08 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: cheeseheads123 Go to Quoted Post
The combination of having the best qb in the league and being far under the salary cap is a big advantage.


Only if you make use of that big advantage

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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#19 Posted : Monday, February 10, 2014 12:17:01 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan Go to Quoted Post
One could make the argument that there is 'luck' involved with every draft pick other than the #1.

The Packers were needing a QB in '05. That doesn't mean there wasn't luck involved with Rodgers falling down the board. 2 separate events. Was it good luck that Nelson was available in the 3rd? Was it good luck that Shields was undrafted and chose to come to GB? Was it bad luck that Sherrod was available at #32 in 2011?

Or a person can accept that sometimes things work just like planned and sometimes they don't.


Exactly. There is a degree of luck involved in using free agency also, but less so than in the draft. The examples you give are good, as are the Seattle examples - Wilson and Sherman. If there is a difference, however, it is that Wilson and Sherman were more "longshots" than Rodgers and Lacy. The LUCK is that against all odds, those guys fell to us. unlike most of the others mentioned who went pretty much where they were expected to go, but just blossomed into star players.

Nobody is saying it's all luck with Thompson; Nobody is saying draft and develop is bad; All I and some others are saying is that Thompson goes to too much of an extreme in that direction. It's just that as somebody said early in the thread, there's no prize for sticking too far below the cap.

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Offline wpr  
#20 Posted : Monday, February 10, 2014 12:20:42 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
This is a BS comment. First, he isn't Uncle Teddy. Secondly Ted Thompson is not afraid to get quality free agents. Thompson merely refuses to OVERSPEND for ANY free agent. There is a massively vast difference there. I think Thompson goes on vacation the first week of free agency just to avoid temptation. That is speculative of course.

The player has to fit the Packers scheme.
The player has to be willing to play for the Packers.

This isn't just a Ted Thompson thing. There are many moving pieces and to blindly say Thompson, err Teddy is afraid to get quality free agents is just obtuse.

One of the things many fans love about the Packers is the blue collar aspect. The small town aspect. The historical aspect. Even the cold aspect. Well, most of those things work AGAINST the Packers in landing free agents. Not to mention the Packers do not have a deep pocketed owner who can afford to spend $100 million on someone like Albert Haynesworth and have it be a complete bust. If the Packers did this, it would set them back nearly five years if not more!


Again, what free agents were available that the Packers should have signed for their contract? No one ever has a legit answer to this, yet we all run around saying "sign free agents".

Shit on that! Learn to coach up the damn players drafted. Do your damn 'draft and develop' gooder, especially the friggin develop part! How long we gonna wait for many of these guys to finally develop?


btw, please sign Jarius Byrd and Brian Orakpo, k thanks Auntie Theodore.


Easy there Pardner. It was a BS comment but you don't have to rant on so. I was initially over the top just to start the thread out. I doubt anyone with any sense at all Thinks Ted is scared. That would be stupid.

Z2C wrote:

The player has to fit the Packers scheme.
The player has to be willing to play for the Packers.


Wouldn't this comment be the same for every team in every professional sport worldwide? Perhaps some GMs don't follow suit as close as they should but every team needs players who "fit in their scheme", whatever their scheme may be. And I don't know of any player anywhere who doesn't play for what the team is willing to pay. The 2 sides may have compromised at some point but if the team isn't willing to pay, the player won't suit up for them. Neener, Neener
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