texaspackerbacker
10 years ago

You just blindly throwing blame around now... of course the best passer is going to get doubled team. It's call chip blocking when a TE, FB or RB chip in to help... that has NOTHING to do with the big fatties job. They're not suppose to cover the light guys until the ball is in their hand (which it wasn't when they were chip blocking Matthews). Teams scheme their offense to slow Matthews down... there really is nothing they can do about it other than get a pass rusher that's better than him to take attention off of him.


People just don't get understand or care about the dirty work inside linemen are asked to do... 😞

Originally Posted by: beast 



You make my point about Matthews. Teams scheme to stop him, and what else is there? Not a helluva lot.

Daniels offered a glimmer of hope, but he didn't play enough. With the fat pieces of crap gone, and Worthy and Datone Jones getting a lot more snaps too, and Boyd, let 'em try to scheme against Matthews! And if Perry can stay healthy and improve, even better. I guarantee the pass coverage will seem a whole lot better if we can get that pressure from the line.
Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
beast
10 years ago

You make my point about Matthews. Teams scheme to stop him, and what else is there? Not a helluva lot.

Daniels offered a glimmer of hope, but he didn't play enough. With the fat pieces of crap gone, and Worthy and Datone Jones getting a lot more snaps too, and Boyd, let 'em try to scheme against Matthews! And if Perry can stay healthy and improve, even better. I guarantee the pass coverage will seem a whole lot better if we can get that pressure from the line.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



I didn't make your point... your point was the DL was to blame for Matthews double teams and you were dead wrong about that.

I made my point of you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to DL that aren't being asked to penetrate right off the bat... they used the big DL to free up the LBers more often... though I don't know why I'm trying to explain, I doubting you care. Just want to complain about something and so you're picking on the guys that are asked to be the least flashy.. and you'll never get that it seems.


But some how that "not helluva lot" Hawk, Neal, Perry, Daniels all set career records in number of sacks even though they saw more double teams as Matthews sat on the bench more often this season.


There is dirty work in football that ask guys not to be flashy... fans will always complain about that player not being good enough of a play maker but they're doing a great job of being a role player for the team because the teams needs someone to do the dirty work and be the glue of the team. And honestly I've very sad that Pickett will never get the credit he deserves of being the double gap glue. He's not a play maker but man has he set others up to make a ton of plays doing a lot of the dirty work alone the DL.


UserPostedImage
steveishere
10 years ago

You can disrupt with out penetrating, like Pickett, he was great at disrupting by going side to side, east and west, while he struggled to penetrate.



I COMPETELY AGREE!!! ... though Pickett was on the injury report some and so it could of been injuries, but we can't tell for sure from the outside.


Originally Posted by: beast 



Maybe back in the day, he sucked at it last year and got blown up too much just like Raji. Jolly was the only big guy who could do it last year but he didn't seem to have the stamina to keep up all game. Like I said unless their job was to stand there and play patty cake at the line of scrimmage then they really weren't doing their jobs.
play2win
10 years ago

I didn't make your point... your point was the DL was to blame for Matthews double teams and you were dead wrong about that.

I made my point of you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to DL that aren't being asked to penetrate right off the bat... they used the big DL to free up the LBers more often... though I don't know why I'm trying to explain, I doubting you care. Just want to complain about something and so you're picking on the guys that are asked to be the least flashy.. and you'll never get that it seems.


But some how that "not helluva lot" Hawk, Neal, Perry, Daniels all set career records in number of sacks even though they saw more double teams as Matthews sat on the bench more often this season.


There is dirty work in football that ask guys not to be flashy... fans will always complain about that player not being good enough of a play maker but they're doing a great job of being a role player for the team because the teams needs someone to do the dirty work and be the glue of the team. And honestly I've very sad that Pickett will never get the credit he deserves of being the double gap glue. He's not a play maker but man has he set others up to make a ton of plays doing a lot of the dirty work alone the DL.

Originally Posted by: beast 



beast, Pickett has been this solid player you speak of with little reward for years. Good post. Dom does have these space eaters like Pickett and Raji in there for this purpose. No question. Our LBs and Safeties simply were not getting home to finish plays as the scheme was designed. Add to that, Pickett was playing hurt for nearly all of the 2013 season. He has been a warrior for us. He is one player I would readily welcome back for 2014 if they choose to sign him.

For instance, how many times did we see Hawk blow in to make a stop with no help coming in behind him? I saw that quite a lot last season. This is supposed to be an attacking defense, but it has too many pieces missing.

However, the only thing Pickett has working against him now is his age. He might be getting a bit long in the tooth to re-sign. Last season was probably his worst since 2006. That is a long time of providing dependable play, but if he wears out, which it was looking like last year, it may be best to add some youth there for 2014. Ted has a big decision to make with him.

Raji has had an inordinate number of snaps early in his career. Things evened out over the past two seasons there, and I thought we would see more effective play from him, but he has looked disappointing. That was readily apparent last season. Space eater or no space eater. He whiffed badly too often or looked to be going through the motions. That was a disappointment, and now I really question re-signing him. We may be better off adding two more to replace both of these guys, especially with other giant contracts coming up next season.

Both Pickett and Raji, together, will command a lot of dough to keep on the Packers roster, and I am now questioning whether that would be a good idea. I'm not seeing a real value return that can be counted on. Maybe with Pick in a cap friendly deal.
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
10 years ago
Looking on his entire past with the Packers, I'm with beast and play2win on PIckett. I have no problem with giving him the benefit of doubt that "last year's poor play was injury-related and bringing him back if the numbers aren't bad. I have no problem with having "space occupying fatties" on the roster.

I see no reason to bring Raji back, though. Top DL are hard to come by, but journeymen type of his inconsistency -- because that, really, is all he has demonstrated -- can be found in late rounds or on the "street". Has he truly distanced himself from the other second/third string DLs whose names no one knows? I don't think so. He's a guy, that's all.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
DakotaT
10 years ago
For me it comes down to a choice between Pickett and Jolly - and for me, Jolly has a heartbeat and a motor. He also makes the occasional outstanding play. Boyd is already better than Raji and will surpass Pickett soon. Hopefully we can have our choice of Hageman or Nix in the draft. I don't see Pickett as a major need, like some of the sentimental fans do.
UserPostedImage
play2win
10 years ago

For me it comes down to a choice between Pickett and Jolly - and for me, Jolly has a heartbeat and a motor. He also makes the occasional outstanding play. Boyd is already better than Raji and will surpass Pickett soon. Hopefully we can have our choice of Hageman or Nix in the draft. I don't see Pickett as a major need, like some of the sentimental fans do.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



Dude! How about getting both Hageman and Nix? Trade up. Trade away from next season if he has to. Why the hell not? Nab 'em both and our D is instantly better (kind of, as we need a legit S in the worst way as well as a new ILB in place of the ghost Brad Jones - precisely why we need to hit on a FA or two).

Jolly seems like a really nice story, but I question whether he is best for us moving forward. He seemed to lose all of his steam pretty early last season and was ineffective, far more than I would have expected.
texaspackerbacker
10 years ago
The whole concept of big immobile pieces of crap "clogging and protecting" is flawed. I never liked Pickett even when he was less of a piece of crap than he was last season. We DON'T need to replace them with new immobile blobs. We got Jolly and Boyd for the rotation and short yardage. That's enough super-sizing.

And hell yes, Matthews DID get double teamed because the line had no capability to take the pressure off him. True, some of those guys had "record numbers of sacks" - compared to what in their past? Only Daniels looked like a threat as a pass rusher among those mentioned, and he didn't start.

My point, I say again, is that if our D-Line is mobile and capable of pass rushing - Daniels, Worthy, and D. Jones getting the bulk of the snaps, teams won't dare to scheme against Matthews, as the line will get pressure on the QB. Similarly, if the D-Line can actually play off blocks and tackle, our ILBs and the OLBs can do what LBs are supposed to do - be the SECOND line of defense against the run and/or run blitz without as much risk of getting burned for a big play.
Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
beast
10 years ago

Maybe back in the day, he sucked at it last year and got blown up too much just like Raji. Jolly was the only big guy who could do it last year but he didn't seem to have the stamina to keep up all game. Like I said unless their job was to stand there and play patty cake at the line of scrimmage then they really weren't doing their jobs.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



I was talking about Pickett overall time with the Packers and yes due to age and/or injury he lost something last year. And I'm not saying the Packers should resign him unless they think/know he can be the player of before last year (and his poor play was due to his injuries). And even then I'd be careful how much money went in because he could drop off at any point (if he hasn't already).

Honestly I really like Jolly but I think he's getting over rated because he made some GREAT flash plays but over all was pretty inconsistent partly due to that stamina issue (which might of fixed with an offseason.) BUT I feel like the biggest thing that's being overlook is Jolly's neck injury. That in it's self could be career ending.

For me it comes down to a choice between Pickett and Jolly - and for me, Jolly has a heartbeat and a motor. He also makes the occasional outstanding play. Boyd is already better than Raji and will surpass Pickett soon. Hopefully we can have our choice of Hageman or Nix in the draft. I don't see Pickett as a major need, like some of the sentimental fans do.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



Boyd has already surpassed Raji in pass rush, but I doubt Boyd would surpass the Pickett of before 2013 this season. Maybe in stats but not in all the dirty work.

I think the NT position is a NT, maybe not Pickett because he might not be back to his pre 2-13 self.

Dude! How about getting both Hageman and Nix? Trade up. Trade away from next season if he has to. Why the hell not? Nab 'em both and our D is instantly better (kind of, as we need a legit S in the worst way as well as a new ILB in place of the ghost Brad Jones - precisely why we need to hit on a FA or two).

Jolly seems like a really nice story, but I question whether he is best for us moving forward. He seemed to lose all of his steam pretty early last season and was ineffective, far more than I would have expected.

Originally Posted by: play2win 




Because we don't know if Nix or Hageman will be any good in the NFL or worth a 1st round pick.

You got to LOVE Nix's hustle but does he have enough potential? He isn't the most talented guy, more like the hardest worker, which is great but also could mean he's going to get drafted higher than his potential. Then again he might excel in the NFL like he did in college. But it's unclear in my mind.


I still honestly haven't quite figured out why/how Hageman looks amazing some times and then completely disappears at other times. Makes me think of him a bit like Raji... flashes and disappears flashes and disappears.


This is probably a horrible idea, but SS Richardson seemed to out play FS Jennings, but they kept putting Jennings back in. I think they might prefer Burnett at SS and like being able to flip SS and FS to keep the QB guessing some, which they can't do as much as Richardson (as he'd struggle at FS)... but I've wondered how would Richardson look if he put on 10 to 15 pounds and got a shot at coverage ILB. Yes he could be blown up in the run game some but so does Brad Jones.
UserPostedImage
beast
10 years ago

The whole concept of big immobile pieces of crap "clogging and protecting" is flawed.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



Mmm let's see ... who's more likely to be correct on NFL schemes.... texaspackerbacker.... or you know real NFL coaches.

Well that are the fact that the Super Bowl Champion Seahawks sometimes played two gap just like every other team has... the only question is how much of the do.

And hell yes, Matthews DID get double teamed because the line had no capability to take the pressure off him.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



You're assuming the DL having better pressure would take a double team off of Matthews... and that assumed is probably wrong as teams still chip block the best pass rusher even with better pass rushing. Better pass rushing doesn't stop chip blocking... heck teams chip block more often when the defense is getting better pass rushing.


My point, I say again, is that if our D-Line is mobile and capable of pass rushing - Daniels, Worthy, and D. Jones getting the bulk of the snaps, teams won't dare to scheme against Matthews

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



I get what you're trying to say, but teams don't stop scheming to stop the best pass rusher... and as long as Matthews is the best pass rusher teams will scheme to stop him.

And DL isn't all about pass rushing... you only seemed to be focused on pass rush nothing else...


Heck when Capers did ran the aggressive 3-4 scheme, fans complained he was using the aggressive 2-4 an other packages too much... now that he's not fans are complaining he's not running them enough... grass is always greener on the other side I guess...
UserPostedImage
Fan Shout
dfosterf (9h) : For the record, I enjoy Beast and Mucky drafts
Zero2Cool (16h) : Haha
Mucky Tundra (17h) : No time for talking! Back to work beast!
beast (18h) : You saw only 4,201 of my mocks? 🥺 I think that means you missed more than half of them 😢
dfosterf (21h) : Does anyone know what Lambeau field improvements got put on hold? My guess would be for the 2025 draft
Zero2Cool (23h) : It's like listen, you made 4,201 mocks, no shit.
Zero2Cool (23h) : Cuz during the draft "I had them mocked there!" as if it's amazing.
Zero2Cool (23h) : They're fun to do once in awhile. It's people who think they are "content" that annoy me.
dfosterf (23h) : Against tbd
dfosterf (23h) : Answer to your question is yes, it's a Thursday, will be the Chiefs aga
dfosterf (23h) : Luckily for all concerned, I don't post them. I did one, but that was like 25 mocks ago
Zero2Cool (23h) : NFL 2024 gonna start Sept 5th isn't it???
Zero2Cool (23h) : Ugh... kids these days!
dfosterf (23h) : I'm gonna go do some more mock draft hell instead 🤪
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : Did we do one of those prediction threads yet for 2024 season?
dfosterf (27-Mar) : In my city, they are playing the nimby game, in order to keep some railroad tracks vs. 2 professional sports teams and a concert venue.
dfosterf (27-Mar) : And/Or a city council, of which I haven't seen a good one in a very long time
dfosterf (27-Mar) : That sounds like a Mayor, not a city.
buckeyepackfan (26-Mar) : Packers halt scheduled 80mil upgrade of stadium until lease agreement talks are restarted
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : City of Green Bay puts Packers' Lambeau Field lease talks on hold
buckeyepackfan (26-Mar) : Packers 1 of 3 teams to vote no on new kickoff rule.
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Packers sign another Kicker
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Lengthy explanation at PFF if you click the link
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Kickoff rules officially changed.ngthy explan
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : lol
Cheesey (26-Mar) : 2009? No thanks! One open heart surgery is enough!
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Good for you!
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Yes. That's the one.
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Is that "Lady Dugan" per chance?
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Crystal?
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Please refresh my memory
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Alan posts. Crystal back in my life. It's 2009 all over again! Lol
Mucky Tundra (26-Mar) : BAH GAWD! THAT'S CHEESEYS MUSIC!
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Gutekunst said early stages of Jordan Love contract being discussed.
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Shouldn't be penalized cuz official screwed up
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Yeah, challenge until you are incorrect twice.
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Fining them is the goal, per the people who made the rule anyway.
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Still waiting on the kickoff rule changes. Did hear yesterday that the touchback proposal will now be the 30 yard line, not the 35
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Probably speed of game issues with your proposal
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Hopefully the refs don't get in the habit of throwing flags on this
beast (25-Mar) : I think when it comes to Challenges should get two strikes, so unlimited challenges as long as they keep winning them, but 2 wrong then done
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Still subject to the fines etc
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Yes, I should have been more specific. Also, they are now saying it would be a 15 yard penalty. That makes more sense .
beast (25-Mar) : Simply fined in the week to follow
beast (25-Mar) : I agree with one NFL official, it'll probably be like some of the helmets hits, not really called by the refs on the field but simply fined
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Hip drop is not. Super confusing. Referees job is harder
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Swivel hip drop is banned
dfosterf (25-Mar) : The hip drop enforcement will be in the form of fines, etc. Not flags
dfosterf (25-Mar) : A major foul will be enforced on the offense if there are offsetting penalties in a change of possession situation
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Teams will receive a 3rd challenge if 1 was successful. Previously, it took 2
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2023 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 10 @ 3:25 PM
Bears
Sunday, Sep 17 @ 12:00 PM
Falcons
Sunday, Sep 24 @ 12:00 PM
SAINTS
Thursday, Sep 28 @ 7:15 PM
LIONS
Monday, Oct 9 @ 7:15 PM
Raiders
Sunday, Oct 22 @ 3:25 PM
Broncos
Sunday, Oct 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Nov 5 @ 12:00 PM
RAMS
Sunday, Nov 12 @ 12:00 PM
Steelers
Sunday, Nov 19 @ 12:00 PM
CHARGERS
Thursday, Nov 23 @ 11:30 AM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 3 @ 7:20 PM
CHIEFS
Monday, Dec 11 @ 7:15 PM
Giants
Sunday, Dec 17 @ 12:00 PM
BUCCANEERS
Sunday, Dec 24 @ 12:00 PM
Panthers
Sunday, Dec 31 @ 7:20 PM
Vikings
Sunday, Jan 7 @ 3:25 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Jan 14 @ 3:30 PM
Cowboys
Saturday, Jan 20 @ 7:15 PM
49ers
Recent Topics
10h / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

10h / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

10h / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

17h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

22h / Random Babble / Zero2Cool

27-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

26-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

26-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

26-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

25-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

25-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

24-Mar / Around The NFL / dhazer

24-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

24-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

22-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2024 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.