PackFanWithTwins
10 years ago
While I don't agree with your assertion that we are in Dire needs at SO many positions. Sure we have needs, but there is NO team that doesn't have needs. It is impossible this day and age to have all 22 starting O and D positions set.

It all comes down to what are we trading and what are we getting in return. Are we trading to get a player from another team or trading it in the draft. I would be more willing to trade the pick for an already NFL player than higher draft pick. Do we get a Reggie White or a Tony Mandarich in return?


The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
play2win
10 years ago

While I don't agree with your assertion that we are in Dire needs at SO many positions. Sure we have needs, but there is NO team that doesn't have needs. It is impossible this day and age to have all 22 starting O and D positions set.

It all comes down to what are we trading and what are we getting in return. Are we trading to get a player from another team or trading it in the draft. I would be more willing to trade the pick for an already NFL player than higher draft pick. Do we get a Reggie White or a Tony Mandarich in return?

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 



I posed this based on the assumption that there was someone they really liked that they felt could immediately help this team, and that a proposed trade was of good value, not just arbitrarily tossing an R1 for an unknown quantity as someone alluded to.

I would trust Ted with a move like that, if he felt he could steal a great player away like he did with Matthews by jumping back into R1 for the second time, and I wouldn't have a problem with him trading away from next year if he chose to do that.
texaspackerbacker
10 years ago
Correct. Doing it just for the sake of doing it - trading away this year for next year - is a bad idea. However, keeping that option open - looking to grab somebody like Matthews if and only if there is solid hope for the guy, THAT would make sense.
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Pack93z
10 years ago
In your opening post you talked about so many holes in the roster, so if you feel we have a ton of holes to fill with a small window, is trading away picks really prudent?

A couple of things..

1. With Rodgers in his prime, the window is open. God that hurts to say that about a QB. Anyway.. I feel he has more than 2-3 years left.. realistically probably 5-6.

So, I don't think we have a small window left.

2. I don't feel that we have a ton of holes on this team.. defense maybe, but overall team. Not so much.

On offense.. a physical center, another receiving TE (assuming Finley walks). Bulaga comes back.. so that give us at least 3 deep at tackle with 2 of those guys able to drop inside. So maybe another interior lineman for depth. JC Tretter had high review prior to the injury.

On defense.. we need to solve the safety issue first and foremost. Find some more pass rush assuming no one steps forward this season. I would really like to find a physical beast inside at backer. Defensive line.. I think Daniels progression should continue.. having a interior pass rush will help immensely.. so we need another depth piece or two. Can Worthy be a piece? Datone should make another step forward. And I think Boyd will develop as well.. Not as dire there as one might think.

Special teams is a in good shape.

Personally, I would rather Ted become aggressive in FA than to deal away future picks to move up in this draft. Now.. if we have a shot at a blue chipper that the staff believes can't miss or fits perfectly.. I am more open to it. But Ted isn't going to change is stripes on an ongoing basis.. if we are active in FA this year.. I don't expect us to be next.

So we are going to have needs again next season.. no sense dealing that away on a draft that I think is fairly deep at our needs. Additionally, I don't see a ton of can't miss blue chips in this draft.

We are a difference maker on defense away.. personally a guy with a motor and can lead. Chris Borland type..
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
play2win
10 years ago

In your opening post you talked about so many holes in the roster, so if you feel we have a ton of holes to fill with a small window, is trading away picks really prudent?

A couple of things..

1. With Rodgers in his prime, the window is open. God that hurts to say that about a QB. Anyway.. I feel he has more than 2-3 years left.. realistically probably 5-6.

So, I don't think we have a small window left.

2. I don't feel that we have a ton of holes on this team.. defense maybe, but overall team. Not so much.

On offense.. a physical center, another receiving TE (assuming Finley walks). Bulaga comes back.. so that give us at least 3 deep at tackle with 2 of those guys able to drop inside. So maybe another interior lineman for depth. JC Tretter had high review prior to the injury.

On defense.. we need to solve the safety issue first and foremost. Find some more pass rush assuming no one steps forward this season. I would really like to find a physical beast inside at backer. Defensive line.. I think Daniels progression should continue.. having a interior pass rush will help immensely.. so we need another depth piece or two. Can Worthy be a piece? Datone should make another step forward. And I think Boyd will develop as well.. Not as dire there as one might think.

Special teams is a in good shape.

Personally, I would rather Ted become aggressive in FA than to deal away future picks to move up in this draft. Now.. if we have a shot at a blue chipper that the staff believes can't miss or fits perfectly.. I am more open to it. But Ted isn't going to change is stripes on an ongoing basis.. if we are active in FA this year.. I don't expect us to be next.

So we are going to have needs again next season.. no sense dealing that away on a draft that I think is fairly deep at our needs. Additionally, I don't see a ton of can't miss blue chips in this draft.

We are a difference maker on defense away.. personally a guy with a motor and can lead. Chris Borland type..

Originally Posted by: Pack93z 



I'm with you on Borland. That's ILB, a great need for us to add an immediate starter. We need another immediate starter at S. If we choose not to re-sign Raji & Pick, we need another immediate starter at either NT or DE. Add to that, Perry is rarely available, followed closely behind in availability by Matthews, and we may need help at OLB. This is it, assuming Shields is re-signed, and Morgan Burnett stops making that giant sucking sound.

Worthy is just a body and has shown next to nothing. I kind of feel the same about Jolly when you take a hard look at his numbers.

So, yeah, I see a lot of serious holes. All on D. I guess we are seeing this differently Pack93z.
musccy
10 years ago

I'm with you on Borland. That's ILB, a great need for us to add an immediate starter. We need another immediate starter at S. If we choose not to re-sign Raji & Pick, we need another immediate starter at either NT or DE. Add to that, Perry is rarely available, followed closely behind in availability by Matthews, and we may need help at OLB. This is it, assuming Shields is re-signed, and Morgan Burnett stops making that giant sucking sound.

Worthy is just a body and has shown next to nothing. I kind of feel the same about Jolly when you take a hard look at his numbers.

So, yeah, I see a lot of serious holes. All on D. I guess we are seeing this differently Pack93z.

Originally Posted by: play2win 



Your original post asks about trading up for people that T.T. thinks are a sure bet, but even Worthy was considered a steal when he fell to the 2nd round and now you consider him just a body (I actually still have hope for him, but that's another debate).

If CM3 is injured again next year, will we not be asking about refilling his shoes with someone? Finley and Collins once provided reason to believe we were stable at those positions...same with Raji and look how we feel about those positions now! Starks, Hayward, and Shields have all been the guy we can't live w/o, and the goat that we need to draft to replace.

I generally agree with Ted's approach to the draft, the more eggs you throw, the more you'll find that stick, so it's just not worth risking future drafts just because you THINK you found a gem that can plug a current hole. Even if you're lucky enough to find a player that succeeds, it is inevitable that you will have an unforeseen gap elsewhere.


play2win
10 years ago
Well, stick to drafting as your sole means of talent acquisition and you're going to have gaps. We have gaps all over defensively.

I'm not giving up on Worthy, but I'm certainly not counting on him.
yooperfan
10 years ago

Since first ballot hall of famers don't fall from the sky, how many more years do we have to win some more Super Bowls? Favre, Rodgers, ? do we have a long view, or a shorter window than we think?

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



I believe our window is smaller than most people think.
We all saw in 2013 what life is like without Rodgers. He's no ironman and he is approaching the ripe old age of 30 and has been sacked way too many times.
If we get 5 more years of Rodgers at the top of his game I'll be surprised..
IMHO Ted needs to make some major moves now to elevate the defense if we want a couple more Lombardis during the Rodgers era.
Only one would be a shame.

musccy
10 years ago

Well, stick to drafting as your sole means of talent acquisition and you're going to have gaps. We have gaps all over defensively.

I'm not giving up on Worthy, but I'm certainly not counting on him.

Originally Posted by: play2win 



Hardy Nickerson and Joe Johnson were supposed to fill gaps back in the Sherman years but clearly that didn't work. We could spend 9 mil on Byrd and he could go the way of Haynesworth or get injured day 2 of training camp. This is why in general I like Ted's approach, he knows there is never a sure thing or silver bullet so he never makes a knee jerk move that could jeopardize future years and needs.
wpr
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  • Preferred Member
10 years ago

Hardy Nickerson and Joe Johnson were supposed to fill gaps back in the Sherman years but clearly that didn't work. We could spend 9 mil on Byrd and he could go the way of Haynesworth or get injured day 2 of training camp. This is why in general I like Ted's approach, he knows there is never a sure thing or silver bullet so he never makes a knee jerk move that could jeopardize future years and needs.

Originally Posted by: musccy 



We can sit around and find the bad in any potential move and therefore not do it. Maybe it would be better for us to stay in our houses all day too.

No GM, HC or even player of any substance in any professional sport got to where they are by being afraid of the "what ifs."

The upside by going after a quality FA has more potential benefit than the downside.
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