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Offline buckeyepackfan  
#1 Posted : Saturday, February 22, 2014 4:18:55 PM(UTC)
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TotalPackers wrote:
According to a report, cornerback Sam Shields is seeking around $5 million annually from the Green Bay Packers. That's hardly an outrageous amount.


This is a NO-BRAINER if it is an accurate report!!!

I would consider Sam Shields a steal at 5.7 mil a year.

I don't give a damn whether he has made a probowl or not.

The report seems to be quoting Drew Rosenhouse.

DON'T BALK ON THIS ONE TED, that is if it's accurate.

Message modified by user Saturday, February 22, 2014 4:33:05 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline mi_keys  
#2 Posted : Saturday, February 22, 2014 4:28:10 PM(UTC)
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I hope this is true and that we get this done.

Do I dare get my muppet hopes up that we can sign Shields for this amount, restructure Williams, let Raji go AND honestly have some money to sign a free agent or two that could help fill a hole on our defense while keeping all our current key pieces?

Pray

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Offline nerdmann  
#3 Posted : Saturday, February 22, 2014 4:37:00 PM(UTC)
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Offline buckeyepackfan  
#4 Posted : Saturday, February 22, 2014 5:01:27 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: mi_keys Go to Quoted Post
I hope this is true and that we get this done.

Do I dare get my muppet hopes up that we can sign Shields for this amount, restructure Williams, let Raji go AND honestly have some money to sign a free agent or two that could help fill a hole on our defense while keeping all our current key pieces?

Pray



Raji is off the books as of 2013, but yes, if they could sign Sam at 5.7 mil, and extend Tramon to lower his cap # for 2014, The Packers could still have 30mil+ to work with to spend however they feel is right.

Tramon is going to count in the area of 9.5 mil in 2014, 7.5 is base salary, 2 mil is dead money(signing bonus money)
The Packers could extend him for 3 years, turn that 7.5 mil into a signing bonus, for this post let's make it easy and make it 8 mil signing bonus.
That could be spread out over 4 years(2mil a year), then pay him 1mil(2013), 3 mil (2014), 4mil(2015 and 2016).
Even if Tramon would end up playing out the full 4 years, his cap # would never be over 6 mil.

That would free up 4.5 mil in 2014(Ted would only use about 1 mil of the current 30mil available).

Today's NFL contracts are all about signing bonuses and guaranteed money, the rest as "they say" is agent window dressing.
Enjoy the ride – It kicks and just keeps on kickin’. "Stats are for Losers"
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Offline DakotaT  
#5 Posted : Saturday, February 22, 2014 5:26:21 PM(UTC)
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Offline Mucky Tundra  
#6 Posted : Saturday, February 22, 2014 6:31:23 PM(UTC)
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Man, for that amount that's a bargain. Pay him ASAP.
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Offline beast  
#7 Posted : Saturday, February 22, 2014 7:33:12 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan Go to Quoted Post
The report seems to be quoting Drew Rosenhouse


I think the report was quoting an unnamed "source familiar with Rosenhaus"... which doesn't give us a clue who the source is nor their real knowledge.

Because I'm a little bit familiar with Rosenhaus, so I could be a random source. Rosenhaus has a bad rep but really he doesn't like wasting time and tries to go hard after what his client wants and get it down fast as he can. Really he's not bad, just goes after what the client wants (which sometimes isn't realist) and he's an attention hog and will take as much of it as he can get.

But the report has Tom Silverstein, and Silverstein takes the sources stuff VERY serious (maybe a bit too serious?) anyways his sources haven't been perfect but he gets the best info he can.

Also the unnamed source said they was basing it off that other deal... it doesn't say how closely or what part they're basing it off of. Shields could want 6.3 million a year (or more) with baseing four years and 50% be guaranteed, and 8 million in the first could be the base off the deal.




Bu yeah anyways under 6 million a year doesn't seem that bad, then again I don't think we've gone though and compared every single play like the Packers did. Shields could be worse than fans think and the fans just missed it because the Safeties are HORRIBLE last year. Though I think Shields did pretty well but I'm honestly surprised they're not looking for over 6 million (then again maybe they are we don't know).
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Offline wpr  
#8 Posted : Saturday, February 22, 2014 8:57:57 PM(UTC)
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I don't care for rosey at all. I am suspect of the "source". Even if he frustrates the hell out of us Uncle Teddy isn't stupid. The deal with get done sometime before training camp. We just have to wait no matter how much it stinks to wait.
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Offline beast  
#9 Posted : Saturday, February 22, 2014 9:04:23 PM(UTC)
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Offline Laser Gunns  
#10 Posted : Saturday, February 22, 2014 10:55:37 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: beast Go to Quoted Post
.


In my opinion,

This is your best post.


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Offline beast  
#11 Posted : Sunday, February 23, 2014 4:47:56 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan Go to Quoted Post
This is a NO-BRAINER if it is an accurate report!!!

I would consider Sam Shields a steal at 5.7 mil a year.

I don't give a damn whether he has made a probowl or not.

The report seems to be quoting Drew Rosenhouse.

DON'T BALK ON THIS ONE TED, that is if it's accurate.


Then you should applaud it!

As you think it's an improvement right?

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Offline buckeyepackfan  
#12 Posted : Sunday, February 23, 2014 8:20:50 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: beast Go to Quoted Post
Then you should applaud it!

As you think it's an improvement right?



????????
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#13 Posted : Monday, February 24, 2014 6:01:14 AM(UTC)
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I think Sam Shields is the best corner on the team. Mainly because he is very quick on closing to the WR and ball which covers up most mistakes. He's definitely worth $6 million a year to the Packers. Sign him on a 4 year deal worth $28 million with a $4 million bonus up front.


This contract stuff is easy!
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Offline sschind  
#14 Posted : Monday, February 24, 2014 9:31:59 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
I think Sam Shields is the best corner on the team. Mainly because he is very quick on closing to the WR and ball which covers up most mistakes. He's definitely worth $6 million a year to the Packers. Sign him on a 4 year deal worth $28 million with a $4 million bonus up front.


This contract stuff is easy!


I think its going to take a lot more guaranteed money than that to get him to agree. The overall amount may be OK but I think it will take at least 10 million guaranteed, maybe 12 to get him to sign. That doesn't have to be all SB though. Guarantee him a 4 million dollar salary this year or 1 million and a roster bonus or however you want to split it up, on top of an 8 million SB that makes his guaranteed money 12 million and a cap hit this year 6 million. It leaves 16 million to distribute in salary/ roster bonuses over the next three years. The last year includes a 8 million dollar salary. As long as he is playing decent he will be pretty much guaranteed 21 million (we probably wouldn't cut him in years 2 and 3 if he is playing at a high level with cap hits of 6 million per year. It leaves us with 2 million in dead money in year 4 if we cut him.

I just don't think a 4 million bonus up front will cut it unless you guarantee part of the rest of the contact as well. You could go your route and guarantee a 6 million dollar contract this year with a 4 million dollar bonus for a total of 10 million guaranteed and it would lessen the dead money but the cap hits would be a little higher.

The point, yours and mine, is if he will take an average of 6 million per year (actually 7 with our numbers) it is extremely doable and will be stupid if they don't get something done. All that is left to work out are the details.

Message modified by user Monday, February 24, 2014 9:51:41 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#15 Posted : Monday, February 24, 2014 12:17:42 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: sschind Go to Quoted Post
I think its going to take a lot more guaranteed money than that to get him to agree. The overall amount may be OK but I think it will take at least 10 million guaranteed, maybe 12 to get him to sign. That doesn't have to be all SB though. Guarantee him a 4 million dollar salary this year or 1 million and a roster bonus or however you want to split it up, on top of an 8 million SB that makes his guaranteed money 12 million and a cap hit this year 6 million. It leaves 16 million to distribute in salary/ roster bonuses over the next three years. The last year includes a 8 million dollar salary. As long as he is playing decent he will be pretty much guaranteed 21 million (we probably wouldn't cut him in years 2 and 3 if he is playing at a high level with cap hits of 6 million per year. It leaves us with 2 million in dead money in year 4 if we cut him.

I just don't think a 4 million bonus up front will cut it unless you guarantee part of the rest of the contact as well. You could go your route and guarantee a 6 million dollar contract this year with a 4 million dollar bonus for a total of 10 million guaranteed and it would lessen the dead money but the cap hits would be a little higher.

The point, yours and mine, is if he will take an average of 6 million per year (actually 7 with our numbers) it is extremely doable and will be stupid if they don't get something done. All that is left to work out are the details.


I think you're right about the guaranteed money thing. Either way, though, it is advantageous for the team to make the bonus bigger and the term longer.

How about $34 million for six years with $9 million bonus and $1 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 5 / 7 million per year?

That would be just a $2.5 million cap hit the first year, and still fairly tolerable after that. The only way this is bad is if we think Shields won't stay good for 5 years or so.

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Offline sschind  
#16 Posted : Monday, February 24, 2014 1:39:09 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
I think you're right about the guaranteed money thing. Either way, though, it is advantageous for the team to make the bonus bigger and the term longer.

How about $34 million for six years with $9 million bonus and $1 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 5 / 7 million per year?

That would be just a $2.5 million cap hit the first year, and still fairly tolerable after that. The only way this is bad is if we think Shields won't stay good for 5 years or so.



I think a 6 year deal is stretching it although he is only 26 years old so maybe not. I also think 9 million guaranteed is pushing it on the low side of acceptance by Shields. Obviously the longer you go the less the hit and the less dead money at the end. If the Packers are willing to go 6 years I think I'd add a few million this year to further reduce the hit in the next few years and guarantee it.
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Offline wpr  
#17 Posted : Monday, February 24, 2014 2:22:47 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
I think you're right about the guaranteed money thing. Either way, though, it is advantageous for the team to make the bonus bigger and the term longer.

How about $34 million for six years with $9 million bonus and $1 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 5 / 7 million per year?

That would be just a $2.5 million cap hit the first year, and still fairly tolerable after that. The only way this is bad is if we think Shields won't stay good for 5 years or so.



totally infeasible.

I am ignoring the signing bonus. It doesn't matter for this.

1. The vet min for a 5th year player is $730,000. They give that to back ups not to starters. Not to one of the better players on the team.

2. In 2013 the AVERAGE CB made $1.2 mil. That includes rookies and street FAs and everyone. I am pretty sure Sam and Ted and everyone else knows he is way above average.

3. In 2012 the 10th highest CB was paid $4.34 million. Joe Haden. I did not take the time to run down 2013.

4. Uncle Teddy ain't going to sign him for 6 years.
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Offline DakotaT  
#18 Posted : Monday, February 24, 2014 4:34:44 PM(UTC)
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Why do you guys want to fuck this kid so bad on his contract? In my opinion we owe Sam big money for what he has already given us playing on a street free agent salary. He has had huge interceptions in big games, playoff games. He's a very good cover corner and still improving. Christ cut Brad Jones and give the money for his overpayed ass to Sam.

I'm confident the Packers will sign him, and if need be, I think they will franchise tag him.
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Offline dfosterf  
#19 Posted : Monday, February 24, 2014 4:37:21 PM(UTC)
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I DEFINITELY TOTALLY HAD HIM AS A ROOK IN TRAINING CAMP- look it up.


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Offline sschind  
#20 Posted : Monday, February 24, 2014 5:25:15 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
Why do you guys want to fuck this kid so bad on his contract? In my opinion we owe Sam big money for what he has already given us playing on a street free agent salary. He has had huge interceptions in big games, playoff games. He's a very good cover corner and still improving. Christ cut Brad Jones and give the money for his overpayed ass to Sam.

I'm confident the Packers will sign him, and if need be, I think they will franchise tag him.


Who is trying to fuck him. The report said he is looking for a deal worth between 5 and 7 million per year. Going on that My example (using zeroes numbers, 28 million over 4 years) it averages 7 with a very good chance that he plays the entire contract out (only 9 million cap hit in year 4 I think I had which if the cap keeps going up will not be that bad) even Texas' numbers give him 5.6million per year though I do think his guarantee number and early year salaries are a bit low.

Giving a guy 7 million per year when he is looking for 5 hardly seems like fucking him but I do think 5 is way less than he would take. If he is looking for 9 then there may be a problem.

I do agree with you in that I am confident they will get a deal worked out. I don't even think they will have to franchise him.
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Offline sschind  
#21 Posted : Monday, February 24, 2014 5:40:36 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
totally infeasible.

I am ignoring the signing bonus. It doesn't matter for this.

1. The vet min for a 5th year player is $730,000. They give that to back ups not to starters. Not to one of the better players on the team.

2. In 2013 the AVERAGE CB made $1.2 mil. That includes rookies and street FAs and everyone. I am pretty sure Sam and Ted and everyone else knows he is way above average.

3. In 2012 the 10th highest CB was paid $4.34 million. Joe Haden. I did not take the time to run down 2013.

4. Uncle Teddy ain't going to sign him for 6 years.



Your points are very valid but you can't ignore the bonuses as they are integral parts of any deal. Lots of players take less in salary if it is made up in guaranteed bonuses. Especially if late year salaries are so high they are likely to result in the player being cut as a cap casualty. Agents know enough to realize that a 6 year deal that pays their guy 13 million dollars per in the last 2 years is really only a 4 year deal (except with QBS and MAYBE a very select few blue chippers) . Of course that hurts the team as well because you get a 2 year acceleration of the signing bonus.

I do agree that a 6 year deal is unlikely.
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Offline DakotaT  
#22 Posted : Monday, February 24, 2014 8:44:02 PM(UTC)
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The more I think about it, that $5M quote has to be complete bull shit. He'd already be signed if he was coming that cheap.
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Offline wpr  
#23 Posted : Monday, February 24, 2014 9:10:43 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: sschind Go to Quoted Post
Your points are very valid but you can't ignore the bonuses as they are integral parts of any deal. Lots of players take less in salary if it is made up in guaranteed bonuses. Especially if late year salaries are so high they are likely to result in the player being cut as a cap casualty. Agents know enough to realize that a 6 year deal that pays their guy 13 million dollars per in the last 2 years is really only a 4 year deal (except with QBS and MAYBE a very select few blue chippers) . Of course that hurts the team as well because you get a 2 year acceleration of the signing bonus.

I do agree that a 6 year deal is unlikely.


yes I know but you don't give $9 mil in a bonus and then pay only $1 mil in year 1.

just to use Joe Haden as an example again he got a signing bonus of $12 back in 2010. $26 mil of his $50 mil contract was guaranteed. Yes he was a 1st round pick. That makes a difference too.
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Offline wpr  
#24 Posted : Monday, February 24, 2014 9:11:26 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dfosterf Go to Quoted Post
I DEFINITELY TOTALLY HAD HIM AS A ROOK IN TRAINING CAMP- look it up.


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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#25 Posted : Monday, February 24, 2014 9:55:49 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
totally infeasible.

I am ignoring the signing bonus. It doesn't matter for this.

1. The vet min for a 5th year player is $730,000. They give that to back ups not to starters. Not to one of the better players on the team.

2. In 2013 the AVERAGE CB made $1.2 mil. That includes rookies and street FAs and everyone. I am pretty sure Sam and Ted and everyone else knows he is way above average.

3. In 2012 the 10th highest CB was paid $4.34 million. Joe Haden. I did not take the time to run down 2013.

4. Uncle Teddy ain't going to sign him for 6 years.


What exactly are you trying to say with the $730,000 thing? How is that relevant to what I said?

Sschind, yeah, 6 years may be a bit much, but 5 is just one more than 4 (I think even Dakota can't argue that hahaha). Shields certainly ought to be good for 5 years, and in the 6th, he could easily be cut if he wasn't worth $7 million.

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