uffda udfa
9 years ago
I already pointed out Dez Bryant but instead we took Bulaga one pick before him.
UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


mi_keys
9 years ago

Nope...sizzle can be any round. I was lamenting that our franchise, and that includes TT's tenure, seems to pass on guys who can change games.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



First sizzle, now change games.

Raji had similar maturity concerns as a guy like Dez Bryant...I realize different drafts. Raji was not known as a pass rusher nor as a guy who went full tilt on every play.



Yet you cite Dez Bryant as having "sizzle" or "game changing ability" and that such "sizzle" or "game changing ability" is why we didn't take Dez. Then why did we take Raji? He was highly touted as a top 10 pick and a dominant player. He was supposed to be a game changer for us (and was in 2010).

I would just like to see us grab someone who can change a game...really change it. I like Attaochu from G Tech. The guy looks like he could be a JPP type coming off the edge. Tons of upside.



Game changers like Matthews and Peppers?

Yes, WR's are the guys who change games in a passing league.



Receiver is one potential position that can change a game. If it were the only position, then Seattle wouldn't have won the Super Bowl this past year; New Orleans would probably have a dynasty going right now.

We've had all world QB play for decades. It makes it harder to notice what a truly skilled WR looks like.



Yes, and Rodgers and Favre have helped their receivers look better. Good players make their teammates look better. But don't insinuate Jennings, Nelson and Cobb aren't skilled receivers. They may not be Megatron or Andre Johnson or Julio Jones or, to concede the point, Dez Bryant; but they have been very good receivers for us and have made a ton of plays.

Just because you have what we've had doesn't mean you shouldn't have tried for a Harvin type. Cobb is our closest to that. I LOVED when we took him.



Not tried for a Harvin type? That's exactly what Cobb is. We've had a steady stream of receiver talent come through over the years. It's not like we've neglected the position. The bottom line is that receiver is one of the last positions Packer fans should be bitching about.

Lacy I wasn't so sure about but he looks like he's going to work out well.



And thank god for it too. It's nice to have a game changer at the running back position when we haven't had that for years.

I've watched this team for almost 35 years. I just want to see a few more hits in the first round. That shouldn't be too much to ask as the purple have done well up top vs. Green Bay.



We've had mostly good drafts under Thompson. Much better than most of the league during his tenure.

Thankfully, Green Bay seems to do well mid and late as well as UDFA and has that stud QB that changes the game. We're a QB removed from being Jacksonville...we all saw that last season. So fortunate Rodgers fell in our laps. Now, that is a game changer... a franchise changer.



That's just gross hyperbole. It wasn't like Rodgers was the only one out hurt; we were riddled with injuries across the board. At one point we had Seneca Wallace completing a pass to Myles White and it wasn't the preseason.

I'll put it this way, at the height of our injury problems in the middle of the season (week 9-10 or so), if you took the equivalent injuries and applied it to the Denver Broncos they would have trotted out the following:

QB:
Brock Osweiler (backup)

WR:
Demaryius Thomas
Eric Decker (normally 3rd wr)
Andre Caldwell (normally 4th wr)

TE:
Jacob Tamme (backup)

RB:
Knowshon Moreno

OL:
LT - Chris Clark (backup who actually did play most of the year)
LG - Quentin Saulsberry (backup)
C - Steve Vallos (backup)
RG - Louis Vasquez
RT - Vinston Painter (backup)


Wouldn't exactly strike fear into the hearts of defenses league-wide and this is a team that set the record for most points in a season.
Born and bred a cheesehead
DoddPower
9 years ago
Yeah, I don't get the recent discussion at all. Overall, I'm OK with the decisions Thompson has made. I still think Bulaga is a really good player if he could just stay healthy. I'm glad the Packers didn't draft Harvin. I like Datone Jones. I think he's going to be a solid player, too. There is always going to be better players drafted. I fully understand the decisions Ted Thompson has made, for the most part, except Justin Harrell. I never bought into that one.
uffda udfa
9 years ago
The discussion has focused, for me, on 1st round draft choices...not 2nd rounders, not Julius Peppers signing as a FA. Minnesota has landed far more 1st round sizzle/game changers whatever you'd like to say. I linked sizzle and game changer from the outset. There was nothing said, negatively, about TT's drafting other than Round 1, and it was more of the organization over the years not just TT's tenure. There was praise for our drafting after Round 1. I'm lamenting the lack of hits in Round 1, only. I never insinuated RC18 and the gang weren't fine WR's...they are not, however, and nowhere close to a Randy Moss or a Dez Bryant. The New Orleans Saints do not have a great stable of WR's. The TE is the best thing going there by a mile. Colston has been their bellcow for years, and he's not all that impressive. I would take Cobb, Nelson and James Jones would've been close to what Colston is as a WR. Matthews was outstanding... it cost us two extra picks in the 3rd round to get him but he turned out to be a game changer that is what I'm saying I want them to do more of. Clay was what? A late 1st rounder. A high rising prospect after his Sr. Bowl and the numbers for his 10 yard split being as impressive as they were. We seem to get guys who are busts in Round 1 way more than we should. No team is going to hit an insanely high percentage of 1st rounders, but you should hit some home runs every now and then. This would be a good year to do just that.

I think most non-Packers fans/objective NFL fans would tell you Green Bay is Jax without Rodgers. They were painful to watch when Aaron was no longer in the huddle with them. The Bears were as good or better without Cutler...the same was not true for Green Bay.
UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


play2win
9 years ago
I think it is pretty clear where uffda is coming from.

We need immediate impact from our 1st Round pick. It has been 5 years since we have had that. We need that player who can step in and make a difference for us every single game.

These are the players who I believe will be available to us when we pick who can make that difference and impact:

Ryan Shazier
CJ Mosley
Deone Buccanon
Kelvin Benjamin

The last two according to recent mocks may seem a bit of a reach, but who cares? I would love for Ted to add one or more of these 4 players. All of them could step right in and immediately make us a better team.
mi_keys
9 years ago

The discussion has focused, for me, on 1st round draft choices...not 2nd rounders, not Julius Peppers signing as a FA.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



Two posts earlier...

Nope...sizzle can be any round. I was lamenting that our franchise, and that includes TT's tenure, seems to pass on guys who can change games.



It is then pointed out that we have quite a few players with "sizzle" or that can "change a game" and then it's back to the 1st round focus.

And if Ted is willing to take a risk in free agency to bring in a "sizzle player," or is willing to do it in early round 2 and everywhere else in the draft, and, hell, even does it with Raji and Matthews in round 1; then I don't see how one can continue to make the assertion that they are willfully avoiding "game changers."

Minnesota has landed far more 1st round sizzle/game changers whatever you'd like to say. I linked sizzle and game changer from the outset. There was nothing said, negatively, about TT's drafting other than Round 1, and it was more of the organization over the years not just TT's tenure. There was praise for our drafting after Round 1. I'm lamenting the lack of hits in Round 1, only. I never insinuated RC18 and the gang weren't fine WR's...they are not, however, and nowhere close to a Randy Moss or a Dez Bryant. The New Orleans Saints do not have a great stable of WR's. The TE is the best thing going there by a mile. Colston has been their bellcow for years, and he's not all that impressive. I would take Cobb, Nelson and James Jones would've been close to what Colston is as a WR. Matthews was outstanding... it cost us two extra picks in the 3rd round to get him but he turned out to be a game changer that is what I'm saying I want them to do more of. Clay was what? A late 1st rounder. A high rising prospect after his Sr. Bowl and the numbers for his 10 yard split being as impressive as they were. We seem to get guys who are busts in Round 1 way more than we should. No team is going to hit an insanely high percentage of 1st rounders, but you should hit some home runs every now and then. This would be a good year to do just that.



And if you wanted to have an honest discussion about 1st round picks, then fine. I said in my first post you can make that point; but then why all this dancing around "sizzle."

After we won Super Bowl 45, we would have looked at TT's first round history and saw:

'05: Rodgers - grand fucking slam
'06: Hawk - has been a steady player for us
'07: Harrell - bust (injury w/ injury history in college)
'08: N/A (traded out)
'09: Raji - home run (at the time, this has since changed)
'09: Matthews - home run
'10: Bulaga - good pick

At the time, his first round record looked pretty good with really only one miss. Now we look at it and have to make some earlier revisions to get:

'05: Rodgers - grand fucking slam
'06: Hawk - has been a steady player for us
'07: Harrell - bust (injury w/ injury history in college)
'08: N/A (traded out)
'09: Raji - flash in the pan
'09: Matthews - home run (with recent injury problems)
'10: Bulaga - good pick (held back by injuries)
'11: Sherrod - injured (w/ no significant injury history in college)
'12: Nick Perry - injured (w/ no significant injury history in college)
'13: Datone Jones - hasn't played much, slowed by preseason injury

It would be nice if one of our first round picks could stay healthy.

I think most non-Packers fans/objective NFL fans would tell you Green Bay is Jax without Rodgers. They were painful to watch when Aaron was no longer in the huddle with them. The Bears were as good or better without Cutler...the same was not true for Green Bay.



No, they wouldn't. Going into last season, would you have traded any of our position groups for Jacksonville's?

And of course it hurt the Packers more to lose Rodgers than the Bears to lose Cutler. Rodgers is actually good. That would be like expecting losing Dujuan Harris to hurt the Packers as much (pre-Lacy) as losing Peterson hurt the Vikings.
Born and bred a cheesehead
buckeyepackfan
9 years ago

I already pointed out Dez Bryant but instead we took Bulaga one pick before him.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



I don't see Bryant as a "game changer", he might have been touted that as a rookie, but with all the baggage and him being a "head case", I am sure glad Ted passed on him.

No room for Divas in Green Bay.
I was addicted to The Hokey Pokey, but I turned myself around!
DoddPower
9 years ago

I don't see Bryant as a "game changer", he might have been touted that as a rookie, but with all the baggage and him being a "head case", I am sure glad Ted passed on him.

No room for Divas in Green Bay.

Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan 



I certainly don't mind that the Packers didn't draft Bryant. He's a perfect fit in Dallas. The Packers are just fine with the receiving core they have had and will continue to have, especially with the addition of the Eddie Lacy/James Starks combination.

The discussion seems silly to me, really. I don't care if every first round pick sucks as long as the team is continually good, always in the playoffs, and wins the occasional Super Bowl. What more can a fan ask for? It'd be great to have more success out of the first round picks, but many contributed to the 2010 Championship. Attempting to use the Vikings of an example of anything is laughable. So they have drafted a few good players. Good for them. I would take the Packers team every time. Most teams would be totally different without their elite franchise quarterback. Denver is a good example of that, among others. I think the Packers could still win 7-9 games if they stayed relatively healthy without Aaron Rodgers. That's not too bad for 7th round pick quarterbacks or UDFAs. The Packers are not the Jaguars. Another silly sentiment.

Moving on.
play2win
9 years ago

I certainly don't mind that the Packers didn't draft Bryant. He's a perfect fit in Dallas. The Packers are just fine with the receiving core they have had and will continue to have, especially with the addition of the Eddie Lacy/James Starks combination.

The discussion seems silly to me, really. I don't care if every first round pick sucks as long as the team is continually good, always in the playoffs, and wins the occasional Super Bowl. What more can a fan ask for? It'd be great to have more success out of the first round picks, but many contributed to the 2010 Championship. Attempting to use the Vikings of an example of anything is laughable. So they have drafted a few good players. Good for them. I would take the Packers team every time. Most teams would be totally different without their elite franchise quarterback. Denver is a good example of that, among others. I think the Packers could still win 7-9 games if they stayed relatively healthy without Aaron Rodgers. That's not too bad for 7th round pick quarterbacks or UDFAs. The Packers are not the Jaguars. Another silly sentiment.

Moving on.

Originally Posted by: DoddPower 



One of the biggest concerns here that I believe is being overlooked, is the importance of that R1 slotting with regards to landing prospective top, Pro Bowl-level talent on your team. The percentages for landing those real game changers and top talents are abnormally skewed into the very top of the draft, and trickle down significantly from there.

We can't afford missing in this area, but reality is this is not an exact science, and every GM makes a mistake or two along the way.

Ted and his staff really do pretty well early, especially picking so late in each round. I believe they could look to try to improve their work in the 1st and 2nd rounds just by avoiding the dud picks, but those seem to have tapered off of late. I would say Worthy, Perry and Jones have been my biggest disappointments recently, and Jones really didn't get much of a chance last year. Sherrod was just plain bad luck on the injury front. I've never fully reconciled Mike Neal and his wasted first 3 seasons, but I'm holding out hope he can make good on that this season, just like I am for the others who haven't shown well to this point, for whatever reason.

Our BIG hits:
Round 1: Rodgers 2005, Hawk 2006, Raji 2009, Matthews 2009, Bulaga 2010
Round 2: Collins 2005, Jennings 2006, Nelson 2008, Cobb 2011, Hayward 2012, Lacy 2013

Our BIG misses:
Round 1: Harrell 2007
Round 2: Colledge 2006, Jackson 2007, Brohm 2008, Lee 2008, Worthy 2012

Evaluation Incomplete:
Round 1: Sherrrod 2011, Perry 2012, Jones 2013
Round 2: Neal 2010

Keeping our players healthy would be a big step in the right direction. Here's to GB landing a real superstar this draft in R1.
buckeyepackfan
9 years ago

One of the biggest concerns here that I believe is being overlooked, is the importance of that R1 slotting with regards to landing prospective top, Pro Bowl-level talent on your team. The percentages for landing those real game changers and top talents are abnormally skewed into the very top of the draft, and trickle down significantly from there.

We can't afford missing in this area, but reality is this is not an exact science, and every GM makes a mistake or two along the way.

Ted and his staff really do pretty well early, especially picking so late in each round. I believe they could look to try to improve their work in the 1st and 2nd rounds just by avoiding the dud picks, but those seem to have tapered off of late. I would say Worthy, Perry and Jones have been my biggest disappointments recently, and Jones really didn't get much of a chance last year. Sherrod was just plain bad luck on the injury front. I've never fully reconciled Mike Neal and his wasted first 3 seasons, but I'm holding out hope he can make good on that this season, just like I am for the others who haven't shown well to this point, for whatever reason.

Our BIG hits:
Round 1: Rodgers 2005, Hawk 2006, Raji 2009, Matthews 2009, Bulaga 2010
Round 2: Collins 2005, Jennings 2006, Nelson 2008, Cobb 2011, Hayward 2012, Lacy 2013

Our BIG misses:
Round 1: Harrell 2007
Round 2: Colledge 2006, Jackson 2007, Brohm 2008, Lee 2008, Worthy 2012

Evaluation Incomplete:
Round 1: Sherrrod 2011, Perry 2012, Jones 2013
Round 2: Neal 2010

Keeping our players healthy would be a big step in the right direction. Here's to GB landing a real superstar this draft in R1.

Originally Posted by: play2win 



#1 lookout Mrs. Colledge is gonna come looking for you!!!!! 😆 maybe a friend or 2 will be with her. Colledge wasn't a big miss, he was a solid starter, when with The Packers and after he left.

#2 Why isn't Worthy listed with Sherrod, Perry and Jones? Injuries have slowed his progress, IMHO. to call him a big miss after just 2 years is a mistake.

#3 Brandon Jackson was pretty damn good RB, just not an every down back, when James Starks came on late in 2010, Jackson was able to show he could be that "change of pace" guy, that helped The packers to a SB.
Wouldn't call him a big miss, not a big hit either, but he contributed much more than he gets credit for.


I was addicted to The Hokey Pokey, but I turned myself around!
Users browsing this topic
    Fan Shout
    Zero2Cool (6h) : Chase Young to sign $13M contract with Saints
    Zero2Cool (6h) : Yosh to Panthers what noooo. Wait he didn't do crap
    wpr (18-Mar) : I say that he is technically HER BIL as he married her sister. I checked it out, he's considered my BIL as well. Sad.
    Mucky Tundra (18-Mar) : wpr, I assume its your BIL via marriage to your wife? If so, I can figure out where the smarts in the family went ;)
    wpr (18-Mar) : Mucky my B-I-L is Bare Stupid. I could write a book.
    Mucky Tundra (18-Mar) : As a teenager in Rockford IL I would get heckled by adults in public for wearing GB gear
    Mucky Tundra (18-Mar) : if you think the online ones are bad, try *living amongst* them
    Mucky Tundra (18-Mar) : Never doubt wprs loyalty. Poor guy is surrounded by Bears fans in Northern IL
    wpr (17-Mar) : pass Martha. Thanks for the invite though.
    Martha Careful (17-Mar) : blog * as the same ugly Illinois colors were adopted by the Baer
    Martha Careful (17-Mar) : WPR, perhaps you should be joining the Bears fans blog has the same ugly Illinois colors were adopted by the Bears
    Mucky Tundra (17-Mar) : Ah a fellow U of Illinois hater. I can respect that though I imagine it's for different reasons
    Zero2Cool (17-Mar) : BTW. I didn't catch the game. I just hate Illinois.
    Mucky Tundra (17-Mar) : They're your Big Ten Chumps and you will like it!
    Zero2Cool (17-Mar) : No, not for the record. Referee's handled that BS. Orange team was trash ass
    Mucky Tundra (17-Mar) : *Your* Big Ten Chumps for the record
    Zero2Cool (17-Mar) : No, not Big Ten Champs. IL is big ten CHUMPS
    wpr (17-Mar) : Big Ten Champs
    wpr (17-Mar) : !!!
    wpr (17-Mar) : INI
    wpr (17-Mar) : ILL
    Martha Careful (17-Mar) : Wisconsin with an outstanding on in the men’s Big Ten basketball tournament. Let’s hope it continues in the NCAAs
    Zero2Cool (17-Mar) : Almost like taking QB in 2020 even if you don't need one is good move.
    Mucky Tundra (16-Mar) : 2021 QB Draft class looking like a real clunker
    Mucky Tundra (16-Mar) : A conditional 6th rounder? I remember Bears fans arguing they'd get a day 2 pick at worst lol
    dfosterf (16-Mar) : So I got the no extension part right and the have to wait on the CW physical wrong
    Zero2Cool (16-Mar) : Bears are trading Justin Fields for a 2025 6th-round pick that goes to a 4th-round pick based on playtime, per sources.
    Zero2Cool (16-Mar) : Former Packer Jarrett Bush opens Wisconsin’s first blow dry bar in Green Bay
    dfosterf (16-Mar) : If the Bears are not doing a deal with Washington, they also cannot trade Fields until Williams physical with them. All hail Caleb Williams!
    dfosterf (16-Mar) : The talent is undeniable, but the (advertised) haul is obscene.
    dfosterf (16-Mar) : If the Bears are cutting a deal with the Commanders, in either scenario, cannot happen until williams passes a Commanders physical
    dfosterf (16-Mar) : My guess is no to the Fields extension, but yes to the trade back with the Commanders.
    dhazer (15-Mar) : I think the Bears do a Love extension and they will trade out of the 1st pick and take the haul
    Martha Careful (15-Mar) : that might make sense
    Zero2Cool (15-Mar) : Justin Fields to Steelers?
    Zero2Cool (15-Mar) : Kenny Pickett. Eagles. Done.
    Zero2Cool (15-Mar) : They can claim best two WR tandem.
    Mucky Tundra (15-Mar) : Aaron Donald retiring
    dhazer (15-Mar) : Campbell signing with 49ers
    dhazer (15-Mar) : I love how the Bear Fans are now claiming they have the best skill players in the NFC North lol
    Zero2Cool (15-Mar) : Vikings made a move to get a 2nd first round pick
    Mucky Tundra (15-Mar) : That's a not a bad deal for the Bears
    Zero2Cool (15-Mar) : Bears have traded for WR Keenan Allen sending Chargers a fourth rounder.
    Martha Careful (15-Mar) : *signs
    Martha Careful (14-Mar) : MLB Devon White science with the Eagles
    Mucky Tundra (14-Mar) : But that was before FA started
    Mucky Tundra (14-Mar) : Dhaze, I thought Kurls would be their #1 target when I read that he was an Amos comp (jack of all trades guy)
    dhazer (14-Mar) : I would like to see the Packers target 2 more FA still available Kamren Curl Safety and Chase Young edge
    Martha Careful (14-Mar) : wow...didn't see that coming
    Zero2Cool (14-Mar) : AJ Dillon re-signing with Packers.
    Please sign in to use Fan Shout
    2023 Packers Schedule
    Sunday, Sep 10 @ 3:25 PM
    Bears
    Sunday, Sep 17 @ 12:00 PM
    Falcons
    Sunday, Sep 24 @ 12:00 PM
    SAINTS
    Thursday, Sep 28 @ 7:15 PM
    LIONS
    Monday, Oct 9 @ 7:15 PM
    Raiders
    Sunday, Oct 22 @ 3:25 PM
    Broncos
    Sunday, Oct 29 @ 12:00 PM
    VIKINGS
    Sunday, Nov 5 @ 12:00 PM
    RAMS
    Sunday, Nov 12 @ 12:00 PM
    Steelers
    Sunday, Nov 19 @ 12:00 PM
    CHARGERS
    Thursday, Nov 23 @ 11:30 AM
    Lions
    Sunday, Dec 3 @ 7:20 PM
    CHIEFS
    Monday, Dec 11 @ 7:15 PM
    Giants
    Sunday, Dec 17 @ 12:00 PM
    BUCCANEERS
    Sunday, Dec 24 @ 12:00 PM
    Panthers
    Sunday, Dec 31 @ 7:20 PM
    Vikings
    Sunday, Jan 7 @ 3:25 PM
    BEARS
    Sunday, Jan 14 @ 3:30 PM
    Cowboys
    Saturday, Jan 20 @ 7:15 PM
    49ers
    Recent Topics
    2h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    11h / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

    12h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    18-Mar / Around The NFL / Mucky Tundra

    16-Mar / Random Babble / Martha Careful

    16-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / TheKanataThrilla

    15-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / dhazer

    15-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

    14-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    14-Mar / Random Babble / Zero2Cool

    14-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

    13-Mar / Random Babble / Zero2Cool

    13-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

    13-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

    13-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    Headlines
    Copyright © 2006 - 2024 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.