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Offline play2win  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, June 17, 2014 4:34:49 AM(UTC)
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JSOnline wrote:
Among Green Bay’s group of 10 wide receivers, Chris Harper said “being the most physical” will separate him. “I think I’m the strongest,” said the 2013 fourth-round pick who was discarded by Seattle and San Francisco before the Packers picked him up.


I'm thinking Chris Harper and our WR group is one of the more compelling stories going into this 2014 season - just because he and this group are so rich in talent.

This player really, really moves, with speed and power, and he makes catches. I'm really amazed by the amount of talent at our WR position. This is going to be one hell of a battle in TC, and we will be cutting very good players. I'm hoping Ted can work a trade, because we have too much as it stands.

Harper could easily work the slot IMO.

Here is more from Jason Wilde:
Quote:
“Chris has really improved,” Packers coach Mike McCarthy said after watching Harper make several terrific catches during the June 3 open OTA practice. “I still go back to his K-State film. You talk about a very talented, powerful, young player. He looks more and more comfortable with what we’re asking him to do, and I don’t think that was the case last year when he came here. So he’s having a very good offseason.”

While part of Harper’s problem last year was having three playbooks rattling around in his head, he said he actually picked up the Packers’ offense relatively quickly. His greater issue was undoing what the 49ers had done to him, having worked him as a tight end and H-back in hopes that at 6-foot-1 and 228 pounds and with a less-than-blazing 40 time (4.55 seconds at the NFL Scouting Combine), he might be better suited for that position.

“I play receiver. I don’t play tight end, which is what San Fran really had me playing,” Harper said. “I don’t even know how to get into a three-point stance. We had to work on getting into a three-point stance. In the NFL, you shouldn’t have to work on a stance. I had to go back to like Day 1 of football. It was kind of – I don’t know. I don’t want to say it couldn’t have worked out but it was during the season and I missed camp and all the basic stuff.”

Now, that’s exactly what he’s getting in Green Bay – and exactly what he needs.

“I learned the offense and all that, but during practice, I was just thinking. I couldn’t be out there and be natural,” Harper said of last season. “That was probably the biggest thing for me. I knew the plays and I knew a lot of the stuff, [although] not as well as I know it now. I know the intricacies of our offense now, but it’s just being natural. I don’t have to think about it anymore. I can just go for it. I know exactly what everyone is doing. I can just go out there and play.

“Getting the whole offseason, it’s a different world.”

He’ll need that kind of comfort to crack the 53-man roster. After the top four, the Packers are high on rookie fifth-round pick Jared Abbrederis of Wisconsin and seventh-round pick Jeff Janis of Saginaw Valley State; while holdovers Myles White (nine receptions last season) and 2013 seventh-round pick Kevin Dorsey are in the mix, too. Even if the Packers keep six wideouts, Harper will still have to make an excellent training-camp and preseason impression to be among them. If he succeeds, he’ll get to line up against the Seahawks in the Sept. 4 regular-season opener.

“Yeah, that’ll definitely be something I use [as motivation],” Harper said.

And yet, Harper clearly doesn’t lack for confidence, as evidenced by what he told Rodgers when the two chatted during OTAs.

“[The number of receivers on the roster] pushes me, but I don’t really think about it like that,” Harper said. “Because like I said to ‘A-Rod,’ I’m not trying to beat anybody out to make the team, I’m trying to start. I’m trying to go for Jordy and Randall, I’m not trying to just play.

http://www.espnwisconsin...p;id=14451&is_corp=1

I know for many that it might be difficult to get excited about this player without having had an opportunity to see him in OTAs. All I can say is WOW! Harper is very, very good - a completely different player than we knew last year. He literally turned heads in the Ray Nitschke Field stands and had people asking, "WHO was THAT?!!!" He is now looking that good. Should make for an incredibly competitive camp.

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Offline nerdmann  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, June 17, 2014 5:20:48 AM(UTC)
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Needs to loosen up his hips, make his body more fluid. If this dude gets down with that yoga studio, he could displace Boykin.

Abbraderis gets the shot at punt returns, so that's a roster spot. Adams has a spot. And Janis is raw, but better measurables. Then there's Kevin Dorsey too, who I like.

These guys will all get their shots.
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Offline steveishere  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, June 17, 2014 5:35:37 AM(UTC)
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We'll see, it should be more fun to watch pre-season this year with decent QBs and the crew of WRs we have now instead of just watching Vince Young run around afraid to actually throw the ball.
Offline Dulak  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, June 17, 2014 7:02:39 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
We'll see, it should be more fun to watch pre-season this year with decent QBs and the crew of WRs we have now instead of just watching Vince Young run around afraid to actually throw the ball.


ya and young was only 1 of em ...

ya I look forward to this preseason also ... be cool to see how this guy does. Hope it works out for him
Online Yerko  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, June 17, 2014 10:30:33 AM(UTC)
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He surely doesn't lack the confidence. The WR position is going to be a hard one to crack on this team. Being realistic, he might get the 6th spot.

Safe:
Nelson
Cobb
Boykin
Adams
Abbrederis (return game automatic)


Adams and Abbrederis will secure the 2 spots after the 3 vets.

Fighting for the 6th spot:
Harper
Janis
White
Dorsey
Gillett

Early prediction, I'd say Harper beats everyone out. Janis is put onto the practice squad. I don't know the situation with the other 3 players (how long they have been on the PS, if they are eligible to return, etc.)


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Offline uffda udfa  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, June 17, 2014 10:44:26 AM(UTC)
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If they try putting Janis on the PS, he'll never make it if he shows anything at all during TC and pre-season.

I did find it interesting SF wanted to turn him into a TE due to his poor 4.55 speed and our 2nd rounder has speed that is one hundredth slower at 4.56.

Hopefully, he really is a late bloomer... being cut by two NFL teams is rough in your first year being a 4th rounder. You really have to show nothing to get cut but it was from two of the best rosters in the NFL.

This and the TE roster spots are the two that I'm most looking forward to.
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Online Yerko  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, June 17, 2014 11:53:37 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: uffda udfa Go to Quoted Post
If they try putting Janis on the PS, he'll never make it if he shows anything at all during TC and pre-season.

I did find it interesting SF wanted to turn him into a TE due to his poor 4.55 speed and our 2nd rounder has speed that is one hundredth slower at 4.56.

Hopefully, he really is a late bloomer... being cut by two NFL teams is rough in your first year being a 4th rounder. You really have to show nothing to get cut but it was from two of the best rosters in the NFL.

This and the TE roster spots are the two that I'm most looking forward to.


Are you saying he won't make it as in, another team will snatch him up asap? That is in the back of my mind simply because of his numbers and his production at the level of football he played (measurables are nice too). He'd have to put up a pretty big performance in TC and pre-season ball though, wouldn't you think?

Personally, I hope he makes the team. But I also have to sit back and realize he is a 7th round pick from a lower level of college football going up against 2nd year guys that might have a little more than he has in terms of skill and experience.

Is the number of receivers a definite 6? Has there ever been more on the roster? It will be fun to see how this plays out (as well as the tight ends).
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Offline nerdmann  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, June 17, 2014 1:01:13 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: uffda udfa Go to Quoted Post
If they try putting Janis on the PS, he'll never make it if he shows anything at all during TC and pre-season.

I did find it interesting SF wanted to turn him into a TE due to his poor 4.55 speed and our 2nd rounder has speed that is one hundredth slower at 4.56.

Hopefully, he really is a late bloomer... being cut by two NFL teams is rough in your first year being a 4th rounder. You really have to show nothing to get cut but it was from two of the best rosters in the NFL.

This and the TE roster spots are the two that I'm most looking forward to.


Agreed, but they could IR him or one of the other guys.

What are the odds that all the WR on this team will remain healthy?
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Offline DarkaneRules  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, June 17, 2014 1:54:26 PM(UTC)
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The only muscle that matters to him right now is the hamstring. Get that shit right Chris.
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Offline hardrocker950  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, June 17, 2014 8:03:00 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Yerko Go to Quoted Post
He surely doesn't lack the confidence. The WR position is going to be a hard one to crack on this team. Being realistic, he might get the 6th spot.

Safe:
Nelson
Cobb
Boykin
Adams
Abbrederis (return game automatic)


Adams and Abbrederis will secure the 2 spots after the 3 vets.

Fighting for the 6th spot:
Harper
Janis
White
Dorsey
Gillett

Early prediction, I'd say Harper beats everyone out. Janis is put onto the practice squad. I don't know the situation with the other 3 players (how long they have been on the PS, if they are eligible to return, etc.)




Seems the most likely scenario. This is a tough team to make the WR cut on, but he has a legit shot at it.
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Offline uffda udfa  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, June 17, 2014 8:56:58 PM(UTC)
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Yeah, I meant he wouldn't make it to the PS because another team would pick him up on waivers before he cleared to get there.

I don't recall the Packers ever keeping more than 6 WR's. The injury thing probably ensures one of the top 6 or 7 hits PUP or IR. That is probably a good thing.

The Packers under Ted Thompson have kept some odd variations of roster makeup. I don't recall ever having 5 TE's on a roster prior to TT. 3 is the norm. I've been curious to see if we drop one TE to keep another WR. It'll be much easier to sneak a Perillo on the PS vs. a Janis. Also, I continue to wonder if Lyerla would be safe on the PS considering nobody would touch him post draft. Who knows...maybe, they keep 7 WR's if they really, really think those 7 are better than carrying a guy elsewhere.

Can't wait to see the final 53.

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Offline play2win  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, June 18, 2014 6:20:30 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: uffda udfa Go to Quoted Post
Yeah, I meant he wouldn't make it to the PS because another team would pick him up on waivers before he cleared to get there.

I don't recall the Packers ever keeping more than 6 WR's. The injury thing probably ensures one of the top 6 or 7 hits PUP or IR. That is probably a good thing.

The Packers under Ted Thompson have kept some odd variations of roster makeup. I don't recall ever having 5 TE's on a roster prior to TT. 3 is the norm. I've been curious to see if we drop one TE to keep another WR. It'll be much easier to sneak a Perillo on the PS vs. a Janis. Also, I continue to wonder if Lyerla would be safe on the PS considering nobody would touch him post draft. Who knows...maybe, they keep 7 WR's if they really, really think those 7 are better than carrying a guy elsewhere.

Can't wait to see the final 53.



It is going to be a weird 53. Huge talent at WR, TE, DL and LB.

I agree vultures are going to swoop in and nab any WR we try putting on the PS not named Gillette. Lyerla won't last there either.

If they are going to go back to keeping only 3 TEs, this might be the year to do so, with Quarless, Rodgers and Lyerla being the top 3 IMO. They could probably PUP Bostick. They normally keep only 5 WRs, but kept 6 in 2012. We have 7 that I would like us to keep, but that won't work. Hoping Ted can work a trade before roster cuts. We still have a full TC and preseason to work through too. We are definitely protected should we suffer an injury at WR in TC.

There are plenty of teams in need of top WR talent.
Offline steveishere  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, June 18, 2014 6:56:46 AM(UTC)
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I wouldn't be so sure Janis would get claimed on waivers. Everyone thought that about Charles Johnson too and he made it through. To claim him a team would have to put him onto their 53 for at least a couple weeks so you really have to be sure about a player to do that and he lasted until the late 7th round so obviously teams aren't all that sure about him. I think he'd be likely to get picked up a few weeks into the season though by a team that has some injuries at WR or some underperformers.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#14 Posted : Wednesday, June 18, 2014 7:03:27 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
I wouldn't be so sure Janis would get claimed on waivers. Everyone thought that about Charles Johnson too and he made it through. To claim him a team would have to put him onto their 53 for at least a couple weeks so you really have to be sure about a player to do that and he lasted until the late 7th round so obviously teams aren't all that sure about him. I think he'd be likely to get picked up a few weeks into the season though by a team that has some injuries at WR or some underperformers.


I'll put money down that the Packers put a WR who is on the edge on IR for a pulled kneecap or something.
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Offline uffda udfa  
#15 Posted : Wednesday, June 18, 2014 7:24:07 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
I wouldn't be so sure Janis would get claimed on waivers. Everyone thought that about Charles Johnson too and he made it through. To claim him a team would have to put him onto their 53 for at least a couple weeks so you really have to be sure about a player to do that and he lasted until the late 7th round so obviously teams aren't all that sure about him. I think he'd be likely to get picked up a few weeks into the season though by a team that has some injuries at WR or some underperformers.


Charles Johnson was injured, though. No one knew at the time just how injured he was but that played a role in him not getting scooped up right away. Packers had barely seen the guy due to his TC injury.

Janis is getting some positive press already and we're not to TC...that is something Charles Johnson never got. Those measurables of his are as good as Julio Jones and anyone else's in the entire league. I recall during the draft Charles Johnson tweeting that he thought the Cardinals would've been smarter to draft Jeff Janis in the 3rd round over the kid they took... John Brown from Pittsburgh State. https://twitter.com/Mrr_...tatus/464962341864747009
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Offline steveishere  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, June 18, 2014 7:42:57 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: uffda udfa Go to Quoted Post
Charles Johnson was injured, though. No one knew at the time just how injured he was but that played a role in him not getting scooped up right away. Packers had barely seen the guy due to his TC injury.

Janis is getting some positive press already and we're not to TC...that is something Charles Johnson never got. Those measurables of his are as good as Julio Jones and anyone else's in the entire league. I recall during the draft Charles Johnson tweeting that he thought the Cardinals would've been smarter to draft Jeff Janis in the 3rd round over the kid they took... John Brown from Pittsburgh State. https://twitter.com/Mrr_...tatus/464962341864747009


There's also the fact that nobody in the NFL thought he was a very good WR. I bet that played a role.
Offline nerdmann  
#17 Posted : Wednesday, June 18, 2014 9:34:48 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
There's also the fact that nobody in the NFL thought he was a very good WR. I bet that played a role.


Charles Johnson? The rap on him was that he was a small school project. Hadn't competed on the big stage, so he was a bit raw, developmental guy.

Then when he showed up, he didn't show anything, because unbeknownst to our crack(ed) medical staff, he had knee ligament damage. These are the same "medical geniuses" who imo unnecessarily ended Nick Collins' career.
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Offline uffda udfa  
#18 Posted : Wednesday, June 18, 2014 1:06:31 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
There's also the fact that nobody in the NFL thought he was a very good WR. I bet that played a role.


I'm puzzled by the above statement. How do you know this? He was scooped up by Cleveland. He may have been scooped up much earlier before PS had he been healthy enough to show teams what he could do, but he never got the chance. When he did play in that 4th pre-season game he was running on a bad wheel, and Cleveland still added him later in the year.

Johnson was another one of these great measurable guys from a small school. He was exactly the type we needed...a guy who could actually run and I hate this wording but take the top off a defense. It was disappointing we never got to see him. I'm very curious to see how he fares in Cleveland now that he's fully healthy.

Janis is our only true burner. I'd love us to have a Corey Bradford type again. It's been a long long time since we've had one that I can recall.
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Offline steveishere  
#19 Posted : Wednesday, June 18, 2014 2:48:19 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: uffda udfa Go to Quoted Post
I'm puzzled by the above statement. How do you know this? He was scooped up by Cleveland. He may have been scooped up much earlier before PS had he been healthy enough to show teams what he could do, but he never got the chance. When he did play in that 4th pre-season game he was running on a bad wheel, and Cleveland still added him later in the year.

Johnson was another one of these great measurable guys from a small school. He was exactly the type we needed...a guy who could actually run and I hate this wording but take the top off a defense. It was disappointing we never got to see him. I'm very curious to see how he fares in Cleveland now that he's fully healthy.

Janis is our only true burner. I'd love us to have a Corey Bradford type again. It's been a long long time since we've had one that I can recall.


Because if teams thought he was a good WR he wouldn't have dropped to the 7th round.
Offline uffda udfa  
#20 Posted : Wednesday, June 18, 2014 4:16:15 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
Because if teams thought he was a good WR he wouldn't have dropped to the 7th round.


He had a nice turnout for his pro day and had scouts buzzing with the time he turned in.

Donald Driver was also in the same category as a 7th round WR and he turned out okay. Did teams think he wasn't very good or were they just unsure because he went to Alcorn State? Same for Marques Colston from Hofstra. Shoot, Shannon Sharpe is one of the greatest TE's of all time... 7th round. Did the Broncos think he couldn't play? Same for a guy like Julius Thomas now? Did we think Brandon Bostick couldn't play because we didn't draft him?

You are implying that every 7th rounder and UDFA there has ever been teams didn't think they were good players? There is a reason a guy is in the league. Some team somewhere thought they were good. Janis had several teams call him (I believe you may have posted the video clip) and wanted him as a UDFA.

We must not think any of our UDFA or 7th round guys are any good. Year after year UDFA's and 7th rounders make impact for the Green Bay Packers. Sam Shields and Tramon Williams. We must not have thought they were any good...we just got lucky that they turned into our starting CB tandem.
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Offline steveishere  
#21 Posted : Wednesday, June 18, 2014 5:16:15 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: uffda udfa Go to Quoted Post
He had a nice turnout for his pro day and had scouts buzzing with the time he turned in.

Donald Driver was also in the same category as a 7th round WR and he turned out okay. Did teams think he wasn't very good or were they just unsure because he went to Alcorn State? Same for Marques Colston from Hofstra. Shoot, Shannon Sharpe is one of the greatest TE's of all time... 7th round. Did the Broncos think he couldn't play? Same for a guy like Julius Thomas now? Did we think Brandon Bostick couldn't play because we didn't draft him?

You are implying that every 7th rounder and UDFA there has ever been teams didn't think they were good players? There is a reason a guy is in the league. Some team somewhere thought they were good. Janis had several teams call him (I believe you may have posted the video clip) and wanted him as a UDFA.

We must not think any of our UDFA or 7th round guys are any good. Year after year UDFA's and 7th rounders make impact for the Green Bay Packers. Sam Shields and Tramon Williams. We must not have thought they were any good...we just got lucky that they turned into our starting CB tandem.


We didn't think they are very good, that's why we didn't draft them before the 7th round. We thought they were better than the rest of the guys available but that doesn't mean we thought they would end up being great players. I'm not saying late round players are never good or cannot be good I'm saying NFL teams obviously don't think very highly of those guys or they would have drafted them sooner. Very few 7th round or later players work out because very few of them are actually good. List the ones that worked out all you want, then list all the ones that didn't and see which list is longer.

I'm not buying the small school player thing either. Plenty of small school guys get drafted earlier than the 7th. Heck a small school guy got drafted a round before Charles Johnson in his same draft class. Brian Quick was a 2nd rounder, a guy got drafted in the 3rd or 4th this last year. Teams will take a small school guy early if they think he's worth it.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#22 Posted : Wednesday, June 18, 2014 5:40:20 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
We didn't think they are very good, that's why we didn't draft them before the 7th round. We thought they were better than the rest of the guys available but that doesn't mean we thought they would end up being great players.


If you knew others weren't going to draft said player until the later rounds, why would you grab him in an earlier round? Would you offer someone $15,000 for a pre-owned car when you know the sales price is $10,000?

I think this is what GM's mean when they say to trust their board.
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Offline steveishere  
#23 Posted : Wednesday, June 18, 2014 6:44:09 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
If you knew others weren't going to draft said player until the later rounds, why would you grab him in an earlier round? Would you offer someone $15,000 for a pre-owned car when you know the sales price is $10,000?

I think this is what GM's mean when they say to trust their board.


How would a GM know what every other GM is planning to do in the draft? If we are assuming that the GMs are "trusting their board" then that means Charles Johnson was very low on every GMs board. Trusting the board means taking a player based on what you think his abilities are regardless of what anyone else thinks. Hence a if a GM thought CJ was the 5th best WR for example he would have taken him before 20+ WRs were already off the board.
Offline uffda udfa  
#24 Posted : Wednesday, June 18, 2014 8:24:42 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
How would a GM know what every other GM is planning to do in the draft? If we are assuming that the GMs are "trusting their board" then that means Charles Johnson was very low on every GMs board. Trusting the board means taking a player based on what you think his abilities are regardless of what anyone else thinks. Hence a if a GM thought CJ was the 5th best WR for example he would have taken him before 20+ WRs were already off the board.


This is really no different than drafting for fantasy football in a sense. When you do a fantasy draft everyone has access to the same info just like in an NFL draft with their subscription to central scouting.

Just as Zero said...it's a calculated gamble believing you're going to get value late that is worthy of being taken higher. I remember one fantasy draft taking Vincent Jackson coming off an injury with one of the final picks in the draft...he helped me to the Fantasy SB. VJax was a far better point producer than many guys taken high, and I could've taken him up high but I felt I could pull him late as nobody would be thinking of him. My gamble paid off. It doesn't always. Same kind of thing with LeVeon Bell last year...injured... someone scooped me on him but dropped him and I got him after all.

I'm sure the Packers thought highly of Donald Driver but also knew they could likely get him late so why take Driver high when you believe you can get him late.
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Offline steveishere  
#25 Posted : Thursday, June 19, 2014 4:31:21 AM(UTC)
steveishere

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Originally Posted by: uffda udfa Go to Quoted Post
This is really no different than drafting for fantasy football in a sense. When you do a fantasy draft everyone has access to the same info just like in an NFL draft with their subscription to central scouting.

Just as Zero said...it's a calculated gamble believing you're going to get value late that is worthy of being taken higher. I remember one fantasy draft taking Vincent Jackson coming off an injury with one of the final picks in the draft...he helped me to the Fantasy SB. VJax was a far better point producer than many guys taken high, and I could've taken him up high but I felt I could pull him late as nobody would be thinking of him. My gamble paid off. It doesn't always. Same kind of thing with LeVeon Bell last year...injured... someone scooped me on him but dropped him and I got him after all.

I'm sure the Packers thought highly of Donald Driver but also knew they could likely get him late so why take Driver high when you believe you can get him late.


It's not fantasy football lol you think it's more likely that NFL teams had a guy highly rated and just let him drop to the 7th round to get a good deal than it is that he simply wasn't highly rated to begin with? I don't see it going down like that. Every team had a pick in the 6th round presumably that would have been a good deal for a highly rated WR right? Yet he still fell.

Not very likely IMO that we even had him as a 5th roundish WR and took an unknown out of nowhere guy like Nate Palmer first. It's more likely that we had Palmer as a higher rated prospect and took BPA.
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