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Offline QCHuskerFan  
#16 Posted : Monday, July 14, 2014 1:08:12 PM(UTC)
QCHuskerFan

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Originally Posted by: StoicFire Go to Quoted Post
I don't understand why anyone would dislike the fact that our "most physically gifted player" was a tryout player instead of a top pick. I thought the point of the draft, undrafted free-agency, and the tryout process was to acquire as much talent as possible while spending as little as possible. If he pans out this would be a huge bargain, which last time I checked is nothing to be disappointed about.



If a UDFA is our most physically gifted player, then Ted Thompson and scouting staff should be fired...

I find it hard to believe that if he had that much talent, all 32 teams would completely ignore him for 7 rounds. Let's see where he is come August 29. I may be wrong. But then so would 320 scouts and front office personnel.
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Offline uffda udfa  
#17 Posted : Monday, July 14, 2014 1:20:03 PM(UTC)
uffda udfa

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Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan Go to Quoted Post
If a UDFA is our most physically gifted player, then Ted Thompson and scouting staff should be fired...

I find it hard to believe that if he had that much talent, all 32 teams would completely ignore him for 7 rounds. Let's see where he is come August 29. I may be wrong. But then so would 320 scouts and front office personnel.


One can point to Bart Starr how many rounds did other franchise miss on him? Donald Driver? 7th rounder.

The Vikings John Randle...one of the best of all time. Undrafted. Sam Shields and Tramon Williams our two starting CB's the toughest position in all of football, both undrafted.

Colt Lyerla is the most exciting guy we drafted outside of maybe Jeff Janis for my money. Doesn't mean either will make the team or be anything if they do but they have special qualities about them. Sadly, we don't find enough guys with those when we actually draft guys. I was hoping we'd draft Lyerla. It was wise not to and end up with him anyway save for the fact it will be much easier to let him go because he wasn't a draft choice and the converse is also true.
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Offline QCHuskerFan  
#18 Posted : Monday, July 14, 2014 1:34:43 PM(UTC)
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Don't confuse success with talent. Bart Starr was not a physical specimen. Tremendously successful! But not known as physically gifted. Same with everyone else you name. John Randle was not drafted because, and was initially cut by the Buccaneers for, being too small. If someone is thought to be too small, I would argue that they are not physically gifted. Doesn't mean they didn't turn into great players.

If the most successful player Ted Thompson found this year is a UDFA, great. But if the most physically gifted player is a UDFA, then our draft picks must stink. Because the draft process can identify physical talents. It can't identify if a player will develop those talents. 32 teams did not strongly believe that Colt can/ will develop.

The draft is not a perfect science. UDFA make rosters every year. But the odds are not in their favor. It's ok to be excited about our team. I am! But it seems some are ready to annoint Colt as not just the #1 TE, but the best receiver ARod will ever have. Before we retire his number, let's see if he can even make the roster.

Old enough to remember Mandarich? Ever seen a player look as physically gifted as he did on April 23, 1989? The NFL is about so much more than pure talent.
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nerdmann on 7/14/2014(UTC)
Offline DoddPower  
#19 Posted : Monday, July 14, 2014 2:23:21 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: uffda udfa Go to Quoted Post
One can point to Bart Starr how many rounds did other franchise miss on him? Donald Driver? 7th rounder.

The Vikings John Randle...one of the best of all time. Undrafted. Sam Shields and Tramon Williams our two starting CB's the toughest position in all of football, both undrafted.

Colt Lyerla is the most exciting guy we drafted outside of maybe Jeff Janis for my money. Doesn't mean either will make the team or be anything if they do but they have special qualities about them. Sadly, we don't find enough guys with those when we actually draft guys. I was hoping we'd draft Lyerla. It was wise not to and end up with him anyway save for the fact it will be much easier to let him go because he wasn't a draft choice and the converse is also true.


Tom Brady and Kurt Warner come to mind, also.
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nerdmann on 7/14/2014(UTC)
Offline QCHuskerFan  
#20 Posted : Monday, July 14, 2014 2:55:12 PM(UTC)
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Brady was a 6th rd pick. Warner is a great example of what can happen. In order for odds to be 1:300, there does have to be a one.

Duane Bennett
Marc Tyler
Nicolas Cooper
Darius Reynolds
Dale Moss
Marcus Rivers
Cameron Ford
Eric Lair
Tyler Butzler
Tommy Draheim
Don Barclay
Jaymes Brooks
Drew Vanderlin
Jaymar Latchison
Dezman Moses
Sean Richardson
The above 16 players are the UDFA signed in 2012. Recognize many names? Those are Lyerla's peers. Not a projected starter for the Packers in the group. Vast majority did not survive camp in 2012. May be only 1 left after camp this year. Lyerla has a huge hill to climb.
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Offline uffda udfa  
#21 Posted : Monday, July 14, 2014 4:08:53 PM(UTC)
uffda udfa

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Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan Go to Quoted Post
Brady was a 6th rd pick. Warner is a great example of what can happen. In order for odds to be 1:300, there does have to be a one.

Duane Bennett
Marc Tyler
Nicolas Cooper
Darius Reynolds
Dale Moss
Marcus Rivers
Cameron Ford
Eric Lair
Tyler Butzler
Tommy Draheim
Don Barclay
Jaymes Brooks
Drew Vanderlin
Jaymar Latchison
Dezman Moses
Sean Richardson
The above 16 players are the UDFA signed in 2012. Recognize many names? Those are Lyerla's peers. Not a projected starter for the Packers in the group. Vast majority did not survive camp in 2012. May be only 1 left after camp this year. Lyerla has a huge hill to climb.

Mike McCarthy can't seem to shut up about Barclay. Moses played okay for us...I liked him...limited but a try hard guy. Sean Richardson may play a decent role this season or he may not make the team.

Moses is with the Chiefs.

Draheim is getting a shot with the Cardinals.

The rest I don't know about.

Should you draft so poorly that you have not one but TWO starting CB's that were UDFA's? That is not an effective way to do business. I would say it's more than fortunate we have two good CB's who start for us that came from the UDFA way. If we drafted better we wouldn't need two UDFA's starting at CB for us. Don't get me wrong, I think it's great we could find undrafted talent like that but it also speaks to not being able to find it in the actual draft.

I think most people assume on Mandarich that his attributes weren't exactly natural. Former Packer OL Jamie Dukes and NFLN guy (or is he former?) loves to brag that he knew Mandarich "had no feet" when he was coming out meaning he was going to bust. If you ask Mandarich and I did, personally, if he ever took roids he told me... I never admitted that. He would then point you to his career with the Colts as being pretty good after his failure in Green Bay.
Ted Thompson has excelled late in drafts and has had some great success in Round 2. Sadly, he's done very poorly in Round 1...the trade up for Matthews was excellent as was drafting a potential #1 overall that fell into your lap. If you fail to find stars in Round 1 or they don't develop you need FA to make up for it. We got Woodson almost by default...nobody wanted him at CB. Too injured getting up there. Now Peppers who is a fossil. Can we ever add a FA who is on the upswing in his career?

As for Colt, I don't have him penciled in as anything yet. I do think he has more all around talent and upside than anyone we have at TE and the most exciting specimen outside of Janis. I hope he picks it up quick. We can't afford for him and he can't either to be like Chris Harper. He needs to get it yesterday.
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Offline StoicFire  
#22 Posted : Monday, July 14, 2014 4:37:28 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan Go to Quoted Post
If a UDFA is our most physically gifted player, then Ted Thompson and scouting staff should be fired...

I find it hard to believe that if he had that much talent, all 32 teams would completely ignore him for 7 rounds. Let's see where he is come August 29. I may be wrong. But then so would 320 scouts and front office personnel.


I still don't get it. Why should he be fired if he GOT the player? Getting him as an UDFA would be a case of extreme value! Why would you fire a GM and scouting staff that acquired a remarkably physically gifted player for an incredible value?!?!

For the record, I'm not saying he is our most gifted rookie. I just cant see why people would be upset about signing an extremely talented player as an UDFA... you got him, you've won!
"the Quarterback can run if he wants to, but with this rocket attached to your body... who would?" -Aaron Rodgers
Offline beast  
#23 Posted : Monday, July 14, 2014 4:44:16 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan Go to Quoted Post
If a UDFA is our most physically gifted player, then Ted Thompson and scouting staff should be fired...

I find it hard to believe that if he had that much talent, all 32 teams would completely ignore him for 7 rounds. Let's see where he is come August 29. I may be wrong. But then so would 320 scouts and front office personnel.


I disagree, talented players can fall and be undrafted. It's partly an art... and arts can miss things...

And I think you could argue that Shields was the most physically gifted player added that year... of course most of the others added were much heavier than him as a number of them were linemen, Quarless and Starks... and there was Burnett. But physically gifted doesn't always mean best, as if he stayed healthy, I think most of would agree Bulaga was the best (though he hasn't stayed healthy).
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Offline Dexter_Sinister  
#24 Posted : Monday, July 14, 2014 6:55:33 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan Go to Quoted Post
If a UDFA is our most physically gifted player, then Ted Thompson and scouting staff should be fired...

I find it hard to believe that if he had that much talent, all 32 teams would completely ignore him for 7 rounds. Let's see where he is come August 29. I may be wrong. But then so would 320 scouts and front office personnel.


Either that or Lyerla's problems really scared off a lot of people. Regardless of whether he is the best TE in the draft this year or not.

Everyone may have had him ranked that high if it were not for his problems.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.

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Offline QCHuskerFan  
#25 Posted : Tuesday, July 15, 2014 8:48:45 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: StoicFire Go to Quoted Post
I still don't get it. Why should he be fired if he GOT the player? Getting him as an UDFA would be a case of extreme value! Why would you fire a GM and scouting staff that acquired a remarkably physically gifted player for an incredible value?!?!

For the record, I'm not saying he is our most gifted rookie. I just cant see why people would be upset about signing an extremely talented player as an UDFA... you got him, you've won!


My comment was not about Lyerla but the draft. If the Packers drafted 9 players, and not one of them was more talented than Lyerla, there is a problem. If after 5 months of film study, combine measurements, individual workouts, and they can't identify and draft talent, there is a problem. Talent is easy to identify. Just use a stopwatch, scale and tape. Football aptitude, desire, heart are much harder.

Let's approach it from a different standpoint. If Lyerla is that physically talented, think how much of a zero he must be in those other areas in order to not be drafted by 32 teams.
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Mucky Tundra on 7/15/2014(UTC)
Offline Pack93z  
#26 Posted : Tuesday, July 15, 2014 9:27:47 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan Go to Quoted Post
If a UDFA is our most physically gifted player, then Ted Thompson and scouting staff should be fired...

I find it hard to believe that if he had that much talent, all 32 teams would completely ignore him for 7 rounds. Let's see where he is come August 29. I may be wrong. But then so would 320 scouts and front office personnel.


In today's NFL.. it is hard to take a risk on a guy that could find himself sitting regardless of his talent if he can't keep his nose clean or out of trouble.

Much like Hubbard, there were flags attached to the player. That said, I think someone might have taken a flyer on him in the late rounds. But no one did.. and it worked in our favor. Take a flyer on him with no strings attached and nothing lost.

Personally.. I think the Packers made a correct call with there 7th in Janis. I think he has a combination of tools that may stick against the odds at WR. Goodson was more of a reach in the 6th than our 7th, in my opinion. Raw player that will need to develop.. but then we see Shields and say it is possible..
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline uffda udfa  
#27 Posted : Tuesday, July 15, 2014 9:28:42 AM(UTC)
uffda udfa

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Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan Go to Quoted Post
My comment was not about Lyerla but the draft. If the Packers drafted 9 players, and not one of them was more talented than Lyerla, there is a problem. If after 5 months of film study, combine measurements, individual workouts, and they can't identify and draft talent, there is a problem. Talent is easy to identify. Just use a stopwatch, scale and tape. Football aptitude, desire, heart are much harder.

Let's approach it from a different standpoint. If Lyerla is that physically talented, think how much of a zero he must be in those other areas in order to not be drafted by 32 teams.


Not only was he not drafted he wasn't added as a UDFA by all 32 teams, in the rush to sign players after the draft. He came via tryout ala Jarrett Boykin.

That is the deal...too many thinking the next Aaron Hernandez and nobody touched him. I think of it as we're so bad at TE we were willing to assume the risk that comes with him that 31 other teams wouldn't.



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Offline Yerko  
#28 Posted : Tuesday, July 15, 2014 10:48:04 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan Go to Quoted Post
Brady was a 6th rd pick. Warner is a great example of what can happen. In order for odds to be 1:300, there does have to be a one.

Duane Bennett
Marc Tyler
Nicolas Cooper
Darius Reynolds
Dale Moss
Marcus Rivers
Cameron Ford
Eric Lair
Tyler Butzler
Tommy Draheim
Don Barclay
Jaymes Brooks
Drew Vanderlin
Jaymar Latchison
Dezman Moses
Sean Richardson
The above 16 players are the UDFA signed in 2012. Recognize many names? Those are Lyerla's peers. Not a projected starter for the Packers in the group. Vast majority did not survive camp in 2012. May be only 1 left after camp this year. Lyerla has a huge hill to climb.


Not completely disagreeing with you but I think you are giving our current stock of tight ends a bit too much credit to make Lyerla's climb to a roster spot so steep. Some of the guys on that list have/had starting caliber players (imo) sitting in front of them. The tight end spot is up for grabs (again, imo).
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Offline TheKanataThrilla  
#29 Posted : Tuesday, July 15, 2014 12:07:55 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan Go to Quoted Post
My comment was not about Lyerla but the draft. If the Packers drafted 9 players, and not one of them was more talented than Lyerla, there is a problem. If after 5 months of film study, combine measurements, individual workouts, and they can't identify and draft talent, there is a problem. Talent is easy to identify. Just use a stopwatch, scale and tape. Football aptitude, desire, heart are much harder.

Let's approach it from a different standpoint. If Lyerla is that physically talented, think how much of a zero he must be in those other areas in order to not be drafted by 32 teams.


Would the same words not be used for Vontaze Burfict? He is a guy nobody took a flyer on as well and has gone to the Pro Bowl and led the team in tackles. Some guys have great talent and just need some maturing and mentoring.
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uffda udfa on 7/15/2014(UTC)
Offline beast  
#30 Posted : Tuesday, July 15, 2014 12:41:13 PM(UTC)
beast

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Originally Posted by: TheKanataThrilla Go to Quoted Post
Would the same words not be used for Vontaze Burfict? He is a guy nobody took a flyer on as well and has gone to the Pro Bowl and led the team in tackles. Some guys have great talent and just need some maturing and mentoring.


Great point on Vontaze Burfict... which proves talented guys can fall to UDFA because off the field problems... (and I agreed with that from the start). But I think Burfict dominated and matched his hype/potential at times in college where Lyerla did not. I think Lyerla is very talented has very well could have a lot career in the NFL if he keeps his head on straight but is he a for sure lock to make the roster week 1 this season? I don't think it's a lock... I think he has the clear potential but sounded like he wasn't flashing much during the offseason while they said Rodgers and Bostick were and even talked about Taylor making a play once in a while. And Quarless is injured and looks like they MIGHT keep more than 5 WRs this season which would take a spot from another position.

I think it's possible Lyerla makes his way to the practice squid for a season (if not claimed) and then makes the roster in a year (or even by mid-year like Stoneburner did...).
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