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Offline Mucky Tundra  
#1 Posted : Monday, August 11, 2014 6:37:34 AM(UTC)
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Rob Demovsky wrote:
Examining the Green Bay Packers' roster:

Quarterbacks (3)

Aaron Rodgers
Matt Flynn
Scott Tolzien

If the Packers are leaning toward keeping only two quarterbacks, then Tolzien might be their guy behind Rodgers. He outplayed Flynn in Saturday's preseason opener at Tennessee. He has the better arm of the two backups, and that was apparent in the torrential rain that fell throughout the game. However, if they dumped Flynn, they would be getting rid of a quarterback that has proven he can win games as a backup in Green Bay.


Disagree with Janis for #5 WR. Guy has done absolutely done nothing in TC due to being out. Meanwhile, Dorsey has gotten reps on ST and we've seen him and Gillett play last Saturday.

Agree with 6 dlineman. Neal looks way too small to log any extensive work on the dline. I hate falling into the "he needs to be X weight" stuff but he doesn't look like he'd last long.

And while we're at it, can we give Bradford reps at ILB?
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Offline wpr  
#2 Posted : Monday, August 11, 2014 6:52:59 AM(UTC)
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I wonder if Rob is going to flip flop every week after a preseason game has been played. I doubt 1 bad preseason game carries any more weight than a bad preseason practice.

Like it or not they will start the season with 3 QBs after getting burnt so badly last year with parade of QB they had. The only way they will drop to 2 is if and when they feel that they would be able to pull someone up from the PS and still be competitive.

I do get a kick out Rob having 4 DL last time explaining that both Neal and Peppers count as both OLB and DE. This week he bumps the DL up to 6.
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Offline musccy  
#3 Posted : Monday, August 11, 2014 7:14:47 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
I wonder if Rob is going to flip flop every week after a preseason game has been played. I doubt 1 bad preseason game carries any more weight than a bad preseason practice.

I do get a kick out Rob having 4 DL last time explaining that both Neal and Peppers count as both OLB and DE. This week he bumps the DL up to 6.


He promoted Janis based on practice performances.

He had 5 DL last time, just added Pennel this time.
Offline wpr  
#4 Posted : Monday, August 11, 2014 7:34:13 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: musccy Go to Quoted Post
He promoted Janis based on practice performances.

He had 5 DL last time, just added Pennel this time.


You are right. I was sure he only had 4 DL. It is no big deal if Janis or Banjo or Barrington get moved on to the list or off of it next week. None of this counts and only serves to kill time while we wait for the real list to come out on Aug 30th and even then it will be subject to change over the next few days.
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Offline musccy  
#5 Posted : Monday, August 11, 2014 7:37:58 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
You are right. I was sure he only had 4 DL. It is no big deal if Janis or Banjo or Barrington get moved on to the list or off of it next week. None of this counts and only serves to kill time while we wait for the real list to come out on Aug 30th and even then it will be subject to change over the next few days.


Exactly - the guys he's shifting from week to week are guys that probably won't be on the active 46 much of the season anyway...well, at least not until the inevitable 12 hamstring/ACL IRs pop up.
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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#6 Posted : Monday, August 11, 2014 2:12:55 PM(UTC)
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True about injuries having an effect. The fact is, the Packers have a lot of talent - too much to fit into 53 spots. The WR package is still up for grabs after the top 3, maybe top 2. I think we keep six. Same thing with TE - I think we find a way to keep at least five. I second the motion to give Bradford a try at ILB - I'm not satisfied with anybody currently playing the position. I also recognize the dilemma with Neal (the one on D). I really doubt he has a future at OLB, and he's either too small or too slow - depending on whether he is down or up in weight/playing D Line or OLB. I think it's gonna take an injury along the way to somebody else to keep him. I'd really like to see Tolzien kept and Flynn cut, but I concur, it ain't likely after the mess last year. Keeping an extra RB - the other Neal or Perkins - probably can't happen if we keep 3 QBs.
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Offline musccy  
#7 Posted : Monday, August 11, 2014 3:05:51 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
I second the motion to give Bradford a try at ILB - I'm not satisfied with anybody currently playing the position. I also recognize the dilemma with Neal (the one on D). I really doubt he has a future at OLB, and he's either too small or too slow - depending on whether he is down or up in weight/playing D Line or OLB.


I third the motion on Bradford. There was a lot of chatter about that on draft day, but they seem to want him outside.

As for Neal, he seems like Kampman in this defense, sort of a square peg in a round hole.



Offline voiceofreason  
#8 Posted : Monday, August 11, 2014 5:52:40 PM(UTC)
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I don't know about keeping 5 TE this year. Unless they start making plays, I wouldnt waste the roster spots.
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Offline Dexter_Sinister  
#9 Posted : Monday, August 11, 2014 10:49:09 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
I wonder if Rob is going to flip flop every week after a preseason game has been played. I doubt 1 bad preseason game carries any more weight than a bad preseason practice.

Like it or not they will start the season with 3 QBs after getting burnt so badly last year with parade of QB they had. The only way they will drop to 2 is if and when they feel that they would be able to pull someone up from the PS and still be competitive.

I do get a kick out Rob having 4 DL last time explaining that both Neal and Peppers count as both OLB and DE. This week he bumps the DL up to 6.


They have 3 QBs every year. Rodgers, a backup and one on the PS. Probably be the same this year.

If Rodgers gets hurt, they put in Flynn and move the PS player to the game day roster and start looking for a scrap heap QB. If Flynn goes down, you put in the PS player until you get the scrap heap player up to speed.

Last year wasn't a disaster. It was the way they planned to deal with injuries. No team is going to win a lot of games if they are down to their 3rd QB. It would be an over reaction to change what they do. You can't keep 3 starting quality QBs on a team.
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Offline musccy  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, August 12, 2014 4:42:30 AM(UTC)
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I'm almost certain flynn isn't eligible for the p.s.
And I think tolzien's eligibility is close to maxed as well. Also, dangling relatively established qbs on a practice squad is risky. I don't know that tolzien would last a season there w/o being picked up.
Offline wpr  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, August 12, 2014 5:35:43 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Dexter_Sinister Go to Quoted Post
They have 3 QBs every year. Rodgers, a backup and one on the PS. Probably be the same this year.

If Rodgers gets hurt, they put in Flynn and move the PS player to the game day roster and start looking for a scrap heap QB. If Flynn goes down, you put in the PS player until you get the scrap heap player up to speed.

Last year wasn't a disaster. It was the way they planned to deal with injuries. No team is going to win a lot of games if they are down to their 3rd QB. It would be an over reaction to change what they do. You can't keep 3 starting quality QBs on a team.


If you don't consider a 2-5-1 record a disaster after going 5-2 what would you call it? A success? By the way, I did not use the word "disaster". I said they got burnt which they certainly did. Every QB they used prior to bringing Flynn back burnt them. QB ratings of 70.5,65.7,85.2,51.9 and 69.6 in their losses were hardly encouraging. The 95.6 and 113.1 in the wins was.

Scott Tolzien is a 4 year vet according to the Packer website. This being his 4th year. He is long past the time to be on the PS. GB may well keep only 2 QB. But then they will have to decide between Tolzien and Flynn and let the other walk.


FYI-
Quote:

Eligibility

Practice squads are considered to be for developmental purposes. Therefore, veterans are not eligible to be signed to the practice squad. In fact, players with more than one year of accrued NFL service are not eligible. Here is a closer look at the eligibility requirements.


•A player is eligible if he does not have an accrued season of NFL experience. Players gain an accrued season by being on the active roster for at least six games.
•If a player has one accrued season, they can still be practice squad eligible if they were on the 45-man active gameday roster for less than nine regular season games.
•A player is deemed to have served a season on the practice squad if he remains on the practice squad for at least three weeks. Players are eligible to be on the practice squad for two seasons.
•Players can be eligible for a third practice squad season if their team maintains no less than 53 players on the active/inactive list at all times.
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Offline DarkaneRules  
#12 Posted : Tuesday, August 12, 2014 10:42:53 AM(UTC)
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After the Titans game, I have my eyes on Pennel backing up Raji at the NT position. He's looking like a real solid addition to our squad so far.
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Offline beast  
#13 Posted : Tuesday, August 12, 2014 3:01:13 PM(UTC)
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I'm sure it's still going to change before the season is here... but if I had to say right now, I'd say cut the 3rd QB, worst LB and add two of the following RB Neal, WR Dorsey, WR Harper, CB Rolle. (maybe think about cutting S Banjo for CB Rolle, maybe...just maybe)


The rest I don't disagree with... not even the Boykins at 3rd WR which I know is seriously bothering some of you Face. Palm.
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Offline Dexter_Sinister  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, August 12, 2014 4:27:38 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
If you don't consider a 2-5-1 record a disaster after going 5-2 what would you call it? A success? By the way, I did not use the word "disaster". I said they got burnt which they certainly did. Every QB they used prior to bringing Flynn back burnt them. QB ratings of 70.5,65.7,85.2,51.9 and 69.6 in their losses were hardly encouraging. The 95.6 and 113.1 in the wins was.

Scott Tolzien is a 4 year vet according to the Packer website. This being his 4th year. He is long past the time to be on the PS. GB may well keep only 2 QB. But then they will have to decide between Tolzien and Flynn and let the other walk.


FYI-


I would say name one team that won't have a drop off like that with a 3rd string QB in the line up. It is a disaster that we had the injuries. Who we had for backup QBs isn't what got us burnt.

I know Tolzien is not PS eligible. There is really no reason to keep him. We have a viable 2nd string QB and we need one for development. It is a waste to put a developmental QB on a 53.

Other than being a former Badger, I don't see a lot of upside for Tolzien. They could get as much out of Rettig and he is PS eligible.

The only way a team doesn't have a major drop off when their starting QB goes down is when their starting QB sucks. Like when Cutler got hurt and the Bears actually got better. Having the 3rd QB come in and play and thinking he will be above the average for a starting NFL QB is a pretty unrealistic expectation. They aren't 3rd string because they are the 16th best QBs in the league.
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Offline Dexter_Sinister  
#15 Posted : Tuesday, August 12, 2014 4:29:21 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: musccy Go to Quoted Post
I'm almost certain flynn isn't eligible for the p.s.
And I think tolzien's eligibility is close to maxed as well. Also, dangling relatively established qbs on a practice squad is risky. I don't know that tolzien would last a season there w/o being picked up.


Neither is PS eligible.
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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#16 Posted : Tuesday, August 12, 2014 7:05:57 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Dexter_Sinister Go to Quoted Post
They have 3 QBs every year. Rodgers, a backup and one on the PS. Probably be the same this year.

If Rodgers gets hurt, they put in Flynn and move the PS player to the game day roster and start looking for a scrap heap QB. If Flynn goes down, you put in the PS player until you get the scrap heap player up to speed.

Last year wasn't a disaster. It was the way they planned to deal with injuries. No team is going to win a lot of games if they are down to their 3rd QB. It would be an over reaction to change what they do. You can't keep 3 starting quality QBs on a team.


I tend to agree with you except I'd much rather it be Tolzien we keep instead of Flynn.

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Offline wpr  
#17 Posted : Tuesday, August 12, 2014 8:07:48 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Dexter_Sinister Go to Quoted Post
I would say name one team that won't have a drop off like that with a 3rd string QB in the line up. It is a disaster that we had the injuries. Who we had for backup QBs isn't what got us burnt.

I know Tolzien is not PS eligible. There is really no reason to keep him. We have a viable 2nd string QB and we need one for development. It is a waste to put a developmental QB on a 53.

Other than being a former Badger, I don't see a lot of upside for Tolzien. They could get as much out of Rettig and he is PS eligible.

The only way a team doesn't have a major drop off when their starting QB goes down is when their starting QB sucks. Like when Cutler got hurt and the Bears actually got better. Having the 3rd QB come in and play and thinking he will be above the average for a starting NFL QB is a pretty unrealistic expectation. They aren't 3rd string because they are the 16th best QBs in the league.


So funny I was thinking of Da bares as I was reading this.

If you think for one instant I was saying that the Packers #2 QB or #3 QB was among the 16th best QB in the league I guess we have nothing to talk about. What I was saying that who GB had as their #2 QB was wrong. It took so long to get a replacement who was up to speed they missed out on a huge portion of the season.

I am not Badger fan so I could care less about Tolzien himself. I do think as of today he has more to offer than Retting. Maybe by Jan 1, 2015 Retting will be a better option. How the heck would I know that? I do expect Packers Inc to know and make the right call. Personally I would prefer to have only 2 QBs on the 53 roster. All we are doing right now is playing what if guessing games. It seems to me that Uncle Teddy and Mike are not going to want to give away 5 games while they try and figure out what the heck to do 2 straight years. I am guessing they will opt to be more conservative than what they usually are. If I guess wrong no big deal. We are not betting any money on this game.
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Offline wpr  
#18 Posted : Tuesday, August 12, 2014 8:08:56 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Dexter_Sinister Go to Quoted Post
Neither is PS eligible.


I sure wish I would have said that. Big Grin
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Offline Dexter_Sinister  
#19 Posted : Wednesday, August 13, 2014 6:23:06 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post

If you think for one instant I was saying that the Packers #2 QB or #3 QB was among the 16th best QB in the league I guess we have nothing to talk about. What I was saying that who GB had as their #2 QB was wrong. It took so long to get a replacement who was up to speed they missed out on a huge portion of the season.
.


It seems to me you are expecting them to win more than half their games when you keep referring to their record with the backups in. You even posted their ratings like you expect 3rd string QBs to have a better rating.

What do you think the record of any team that is playing with it's 3rd and 4th QBs for 6 games is going to be? I would say they were guaranteed 6 losses on top of 2 they had when the starter went down.

Besides, there were 28 other players not named Rodgers that were injured. The Packers had over 300 combined games missed due to injuries. Houston and Atlanta who were both picked to be Super Bowl contenders had fewer injuries and won 2 and 4 games.

The Bears had a third as many games missed and we beat them for the Division title. The media couldn't stop talking about how decimated they were by injuries. With a third as many.


They didn't get burned by their backup QBs. They got burned by injuries, buy weathered it better than any other team.


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Offline wpr  
#20 Posted : Wednesday, August 13, 2014 9:06:00 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Dexter_Sinister Go to Quoted Post
It seems to me you are expecting them to win more than half their games when you keep referring to their record with the backups in. You even posted their ratings like you expect 3rd string QBs to have a better rating.

What do you think the record of any team that is playing with it's 3rd and 4th QBs for 6 games is going to be? I would say they were guaranteed 6 losses on top of 2 they had when the starter went down.

Besides, there were 28 other players not named Rodgers that were injured. The Packers had over 300 combined games missed due to injuries. Houston and Atlanta who were both picked to be Super Bowl contenders had fewer injuries and won 2 and 4 games.

The Bears had a third as many games missed and we beat them for the Division title. The media couldn't stop talking about how decimated they were by injuries. With a third as many.


They didn't get burned by their backup QBs. They got burned by injuries, buy weathered it better than any other team.



It is a wonderful thing to have a great QB but believe it or not teams actually win without one. The offense may have struggled but the defense is what let them down time after time,

If they had a solid OL and a good RB they would have moved the ball. Lacy did all he could almost all on his own. If they had a strong defense they could have won most of those games. They didn't.

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Offline steveishere  
#21 Posted : Thursday, August 14, 2014 4:55:56 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
It is a wonderful thing to have a great QB but believe it or not teams actually win without one. The offense may have struggled but the defense is what let them down time after time,

If they had a solid OL and a good RB they would have moved the ball. Lacy did all he could almost all on his own. If they had a strong defense they could have won most of those games. They didn't.



Not really. Year after year almost all playoff teams got at least good play out of their QBs. There are exceptions here or there like Minnesota a couple seasons ago but even they had a historically great season out of their RB. Even us last year without Rodgers went 2-2-1 when we had decent QB play, and that's with key players injured or crippled like Bulaga,CMIII,Hayward,Shields,Perry. We were bad when our QBs played terribly but pretty much any team would be add in all the other injuries and it makes it worse. Our D needs to be better but it was better in 2012 when it was a little healthier. You have to expect a team to still play well even with a few injuries but last year was a massacre.
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Offline Dexter_Sinister  
#22 Posted : Thursday, August 14, 2014 4:50:34 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
It is a wonderful thing to have a great QB but believe it or not teams actually win without one. The offense may have struggled but the defense is what let them down time after time,

If they had a solid OL and a good RB they would have moved the ball. Lacy did all he could almost all on his own. If they had a strong defense they could have won most of those games. They didn't.



You skipped over one of the most important points. Rodgers was only one of almost 30 players hurt. We still had over 300 combined games missed due to injuries other than Rodgers. That would still be leading the league by about 50 over the next most injured team.

Other than Rodgers injury, if the rest of the team was relatively healthy, they probably win 10-11 games. That isn't the QB positions fault and that isn't what burned them.
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Offline DakotaT  
#23 Posted : Thursday, August 14, 2014 5:21:25 PM(UTC)
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Why do people want Matt Flynn replaced with Tolzien? Matt Flynn has proven over and over that he knows our offense inside and out, and can win games when needed to play. Tolzien might have more arm strength and athleticism, but he's being showcased for a trade. Green Bay is a quarterback factory, but I'll stay with the guy that has proven it on the field. Matt is a perfect backup quarterback for us, just hope he doesn't get any stupid offers like Seattle and Oakland gave him.
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Offline OlHoss1884  
#24 Posted : Friday, August 15, 2014 1:46:36 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
Why do people want Matt Flynn replaced with Tolzien?


Because Tolzien is probably as good as Flynn now, and Flynn is not likely to get any better while Tolzien is.

That said, I can live with Flynn as the backup, if that's how they decide to go, but I am for going with the higher upside, all things being about equal.
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