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Offline musccy  
#11 Posted : Sunday, August 24, 2014 6:53:42 AM(UTC)
musccy

Rank: 1st Round Draft Pick

Joined: 5/7/2009(UTC)
Location: Pennsylvania

Applause Given: 251
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Originally Posted by: StarrMax1 Go to Quoted Post

McGinn
"The object always is to win games. Does it make any difference if the players contributing to the winning cause are draft picks or free agents? It most assuredly does not."


Exactly.

First, looking at just the draft class, it's hard to call it a dud this early for all the obvious reasons (3 year assessment), plus it looks like the potential is there to have picked up 4 solid receiving threats, a C that could develop as a long snapper and/or C, and a safe pick that could be a solid albeit maybe not spectacular safety. Clearly too early to say that with any certainty, just as it's too early to definitively declare Thornton and Bradford busts or effectively grade this draft.

Additionally, Elliot and Pennel (I'll admit I was skeptical about him and am starting to change my opinion) appear to be solid additions that could not only make the roster, but possibly be solid contributors on the active roster.



Offline uffda udfa  
#12 Posted : Sunday, August 24, 2014 7:14:51 AM(UTC)
uffda udfa

Rank: 4th Round Draft Pick

Joined: 4/25/2014(UTC)
Location: Texas

Applause Given: 149
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Originally Posted by: StarrMax1 Go to Quoted Post
Love the title of this thread.
Another attempt to validate the completely ignorant stance that Ted Thompson should not have had his contract extended.

Have they been disapointments? yes

Are they busts? Hell no!!!

When did the expectations for 3rd and 4th rnd draft picks become so high that if they don't immediately show they are starter or even immediate backup material, they are labeled busts?

It's great when it works out that way(see Bahktiari).

Only in the eyes of those who have one agenda and one agenda only on this forum, are these 2 guys busts, which of course makes the whole draft class a bust.

Complete stupidity!!!

Thornton will probably make the 53 man roster, he will also probably be one of the inactives the first part of the season.

Bradford on the other hand will probably be one of the last cuts, he will either get claimed or he won't, if he does, well good luck to him(won't be the 1st 4th rounder to ever get cut), if he doesn't, there is a pretty good chance he will end up on the practice squad.

The move to Inside Linebacker may be an option, but that wouldn't have happened in one pre-season anyway, so if that becomes the plan down the road, a year on the PS is just what he needs.

This is the one quote from the story, that those who didn't take the time to read the whole article would never have seen.

McGinn
"The object always is to win games. Does it make any difference if the players contributing to the winning cause are draft picks or free agents? It most assuredly does not."

Looking foward to the 10 pages of rebuttals and "quotes" from articles the last 9 years to validate what as I stated before, a completely ignorant stance.


The point is you can't admit it is disappointing that UDFA's have outplayed our 3rd and 4th rounders...I would argue that Janis our 7th has outplayed our 2nd in Adams. Rolle at a different position has outplayed our 1 in Dix, but Rolle wasn't a this year guy. It just gets old watching our draftees bringing nothing to the table. It's a total failure by the GM and scouting department and no it is not wrong or crazy to suggest Ted Thompson shouldn't have gotten an extension. How many more years do you want to watch this defense suck and Aaron's career tick away? You're fine with it and it won't take 15 pages to figure it out.

Yes, it doesn't matter where guys come from but the true difference makers are found in Round 1... we can get solid players as UDFA's but next to none of them will ever be special like 1st rounders can be. Check that HOF link I posted. The overwhelming # of HOF players come from Round 1. That is where our two best came from in Aaron and Clay.

This sad defense of Ted Thompson is puzzling. You do not see it as it is... I understand the love affair in the sense the warm and fuzzy you get being in the playoffs. We've left so much on the table it's sad. You focus on the playoff appearances. I focus on the waste of what we do when we get there.
UserPostedImage

It's one heckuva drug.
Offline gbguy20  
#13 Posted : Sunday, August 24, 2014 7:35:36 AM(UTC)
gbguy20

Rank: 1st Round Draft Pick

Joined: 8/28/2009(UTC)

Applause Given: 208
Applause Received: 285

Isn't Bradford one of the guys that uffda was actually happy with after the draft?
call me Dan
Offline DarkaneRules  
#14 Posted : Sunday, August 24, 2014 7:52:30 AM(UTC)
DarkaneRules

Rank: 2nd Round Draft Pick

Joined: 8/15/2008(UTC)

Applause Given: 211
Applause Received: 357

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa Go to Quoted Post
Great piece by McGinn... again, we fail to hit on defensive players in the draft. Thornton and Bradford should both be cut.

When I was lamenting this draft I took a lot of heat for doing so. As of now, and things can surely change, this looks like one of the worst drafts in Green Bay in a long long time. Abbrederis and Janis might be the two best things to come out of it when all is said and done.


Really enjoyed this article. It made a lot of great observations. The media is allowed to be just as reactionary as we are if they want. I have built a trust in McGinn's opinion and a lot of it rang true for me. But as far as the main premise of the article, I am currently 50/50. Thornton has been even more disappointing when he is compared against Boyd. I like Boyd. He really came on at the end of last season and continues to show improvement this pre-season. However, last pre-season I wasn't impressed with him early on so give Thornton a freaking chance here people.

Bradford on the other hand is at a position in this defense where you at least need to see something... a hint of anything. He hasn't shown it and although I won't call Thornton a wasted pick yet, I am leaning strongly toward that statement for Carl. Despite his build and where we all think he should be playing, I expected to see... ya know... something!
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
Offline musccy  
#15 Posted : Sunday, August 24, 2014 8:05:09 AM(UTC)
musccy

Rank: 1st Round Draft Pick

Joined: 5/7/2009(UTC)
Location: Pennsylvania

Applause Given: 251
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Originally Posted by: DarkaneRules Go to Quoted Post
I like Boyd. He really came on at the end of last season and continues to show improvement this pre-season. However, last pre-season I wasn't impressed with him early on so give Thornton a freaking chance here people.
!

ThumpUp He was inactive until November-ish, and now many of us feel he'll be a solid contributor. Same thing for Thornton, we're talking about 4 weeks of camp from a guy that many media "experts" felt was a raw talent that may have been a reach, but was picked on a projection. Again, 4 weeks and we're throwing in the towel on a mid-round pick?





thanks Post received 2 applause.
DarkaneRules on 8/24/2014(UTC), beast on 8/24/2014(UTC)
Offline StarrMax1  
#16 Posted : Sunday, August 24, 2014 8:46:06 AM(UTC)
StarrMax1

Rank: 6th Round Draft Pick

United States
Joined: 5/9/2014(UTC)
Location: Toledo

Applause Given: 92
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Originally Posted by: uffda udfa Go to Quoted Post
The point is you can't admit it is disappointing that UDFA's have outplayed our 3rd and 4th rounders...I would argue that Janis our 7th has outplayed our 2nd in Adams. Rolle at a different position has outplayed our 1 in Dix, but Rolle wasn't a this year guy. It just gets old watching our draftees bringing nothing to the table. It's a total failure by the GM and scouting department and no it is not wrong or crazy to suggest Ted Thompson shouldn't have gotten an extension. How many more years do you want to watch this defense suck and Aaron's career tick away? You're fine with it and it won't take 15 pages to figure it out.

Yes, it doesn't matter where guys come from but the true difference makers are found in Round 1... we can get solid players as UDFA's but next to none of them will ever be special like 1st rounders can be. Check that HOF link I posted. The overwhelming # of HOF players come from Round 1. That is where our two best came from in Aaron and Clay.

This sad defense of Ted Thompson is puzzling. You do not see it as it is... I understand the love affair in the sense the warm and fuzzy you get being in the playoffs. We've left so much on the table it's sad. You focus on the playoff appearances. I focus on the waste of what we do when we get there.


Same bullshit, different thread, blah, blah, blah.

I get you don't like Ted Thompson,that's fine, your opinion, beyond that, you haven't posted one other thing that is YOUR opinion.

All you do is drudge up old articles, post them, like they are suppose to validate anything.

So sick of hearing about "Aaron's career ticking away", like he is the only guy playing football in Green Bay.

So tired of you using your psycho babble trying to convince others that we all should agree with you.

I'm suppose to feel guilty because The Packers haven't won in the playoffs in a couple of years, or I'm not the fan you are because I can actually enjoy watching The Packers play football whether they win or lose.

I can't admit UDFA's have outplayed some draft picks?

It happens every year, I'll give Ted Thompson and his scouts credit for bringing in the guys who do excell as UDFA's, without them, there would be a hell of a lot more losing in Green Bay.

So,obviously by your post, you do expect any player who is drafted by The Green Bay Packers to instantly be starter ready. (Unrealistic)

You remind me of that 90's rapper Vanilla Ice, "ice ice baby", one hit wonder, but he just kept regurgitating it time and time again, in different genre's, until everyone just got sick of the song.

Find a new Rap, your woe is me, I don't understand, is just making most sick.

I really question whether you are really a Packer fan, as much negativity that flies around this forum at times, it doesn't compare to your absolute crap attitude.

Can't Wait, we still have 9 pages to go.

Please post me an article saying Rolle has outplayed Clinton Dix.

Or is this just another of your many fabrications?

Tell me again how u just don't understand how I can enjoy Packer Football.

I'll tell you again, your are just full of crap.





thanks Post received 1 applause.
DoddPower on 8/24/2014(UTC)
Offline musccy  
#17 Posted : Sunday, August 24, 2014 9:09:14 AM(UTC)
musccy

Rank: 1st Round Draft Pick

Joined: 5/7/2009(UTC)
Location: Pennsylvania

Applause Given: 251
Applause Received: 234

Originally Posted by: StarrMax1 Go to Quoted Post


I can't admit UDFA's have outplayed some draft picks?

It happens every year, I'll give Ted Thompson and his scouts credit for bringing in the guys who do excell as UDFA's, without them, there would be a hell of a lot more losing in Green Bay.



Uffda or others who criticize the team for missing in early rounds have a point. As I've stated in other threads, there are tangible consequences for missing early, especially for a team that doesn't utilize F.A. often.

With that said, it ultimately comes down to fielding the best team by whatever means necessary. The same scouts missing in the early rounds are the ones finding Shields, Elliot, Barclay, Pennel, etc. so you can't solely criticize them for the misses.

Offline DarkaneRules  
#18 Posted : Sunday, August 24, 2014 9:44:21 AM(UTC)
DarkaneRules

Rank: 2nd Round Draft Pick

Joined: 8/15/2008(UTC)

Applause Given: 211
Applause Received: 357

If Elliot turns out to be a player and Bradford doesn't I won't be upset because of where they're drafted. At the end of the day, that really doesn't matter me as long as you find talented guys on your 53 and field a competitive team. If this were last year though, I'd be peeved because the OLB depth was really bad last year.
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
Offline uffda udfa  
#19 Posted : Sunday, August 24, 2014 10:59:02 AM(UTC)
uffda udfa

Rank: 4th Round Draft Pick

Joined: 4/25/2014(UTC)
Location: Texas

Applause Given: 149
Applause Received: 150

Originally Posted by: gbguy20 Go to Quoted Post
Isn't Bradford one of the guys that uffda was actually happy with after the draft?


Yes. Go back and see why I was happy. Read what I wrote when I heard not long after he was picked that they were going to use him as an OLB. I was happy because I thought he'd bring some crazy toughness to the middle of the D. I said Bradford would be a major bust at OLB and same for Thornton on DL. Read how I lamented his terrible measurables for OLB. McGinn mentioned those in his piece that every scout but apparently the Packers scouts knew this kid couldn't play OLB at the NFL level. There is a failing and disconnect somewhere. We can't wait to pounce on guys falling down draft boards, but they usually fall for a reason. Not always but most of the time. See Worthy... see Bradford...Bulaga, etc. Before you hammer me for Bulaga, he was touted as a high pick because he was supposed to be a LT, which he is not. A 1st rounder on a right tackle is a waste especially given who we could've added instead. Dez Bryant was sitting there and we took a stiff of a LT in Bryan Bulaga. Dez Bryant is an absolute monster...a true superstar. Bulaga is an adequate RIGHT tackle. Another terrible miss for what we could've done there. I was losing my mind seeing Dez sitting there and we took the guy who couldn't play LT...all the other NFL teams knew he couldn't play it...but not us... we saw that great value and missed out on a superstar. I follow the draft very closely....my favorite event in sports. Ted Thompson ain't as good as you think...especially up high. I love what we do after the draft but during the first rounds unless it's a WR you can usually forget about getting anything of value.

If you recall the Bradford thing, then you must also recall I was happy with Abbrederis and Janis...and Lyerla. Those were the 3 guys I was most excited about.


UserPostedImage

It's one heckuva drug.
Offline DarkaneRules  
#20 Posted : Sunday, August 24, 2014 11:15:31 AM(UTC)
DarkaneRules

Rank: 2nd Round Draft Pick

Joined: 8/15/2008(UTC)

Applause Given: 211
Applause Received: 357

Cool. In any case, we are alright at OLB and DE this year I believe. The depth is tight at Center and NT though and we have Raji go down and now Tretter is not practicing today. Every year seems to have another couple position group or two draw the short end of the stick.
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
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