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uffda udfa  
#1 Posted : Saturday, August 23, 2014 9:16:38 PM(UTC)
JSOnline said:
Based strictly on the past four weeks, defensive end Khyri Thornton and outside linebacker Carl Bradford probably don’t warrant berths on the Green Bay Packers’ final 53-man roster.


Great piece by McGinn... again, we fail to hit on defensive players in the draft. Thornton and Bradford should both be cut.

When I was lamenting this draft I took a lot of heat for doing so. As of now, and things can surely change, this looks like one of the worst drafts in Green Bay in a long long time. Abbrederis and Janis might be the two best things to come out of it when all is said and done.
nerdmann  
#2 Posted : Saturday, August 23, 2014 10:16:35 PM(UTC)
Bradford should be playing ILB.
beast  
#3 Posted : Saturday, August 23, 2014 10:25:08 PM(UTC)
So you refuse to call Boykins a "lock" and insistent on a̶r̶g̶u̶i̶n̶g̶ debating with anyone who does because it's too early to call Boykins that as things could still change... but you're calling two rookies "bust"... seems a little hypocritical and/or pot stirring trollish... then again maybe it's because you like stirring the pot and debating and seems like you've always been very near the top of the most the "Most Posts" category ever since I've seen it be put in... trying to be like Aaron Rodgers and doing a little stat whoring of your own? =d>


Anyways I've said it before last year for D. Jones... to me I expect almost nothing out of rookie defensive interior linemen because they normally seem to need at least a year to adjust to the NFL. Yes I know that's not true for all but it seems true from most.

As for Bradford... yeah it seems like he's a bust. I can admit that just like I can admit Boykins was/is a lock if healthy.


I just find it interesting that you want to wait for all the possibility positive news and rush to post all the negative news and always want to debate it seems. But hey each to their own I guess.


GO PACK GO!!!
beast  
#4 Posted : Saturday, August 23, 2014 10:29:35 PM(UTC)
nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
Bradford should be playing ILB.


I've been thinking some of the back-up OLB should be playing ILB, because the back-ups ILB were getting a lot of playing time and looking very poor... after a while of watching that I rather see how Bradford or Elliot or some of the other OLB might be able to fill in at ILB instead.

Also there has been some talk about Packers playing with 3 OLB on the field at once, so I've been wondering if the reason they're so heavy at OLB is because they might be planning a lot of 3 OLB on the field at once... we'll just have to wait and see.

Might be a very interesting cut down for most the positions on defense this year.

Mucky Tundra  
#5 Posted : Saturday, August 23, 2014 10:37:29 PM(UTC)
beast said: Go to Quoted Post
I've been thinking some of the back-up OLB should be playing ILB, because the back-ups ILB were getting a lot of playing time and looking very poor... after a while of watching that I rather see how Bradford or Elliot or some of the other OLB might be able to fill in at ILB instead.

Also there has been some talk about Packers playing with 3 OLB on the field at once, so I've been wondering if the reason they're so heavy at OLB is because they might be planning a lot of 3 OLB on the field at once... we'll just have to wait and see.

Might be a very interesting cut down for most the positions on defense this year.



Hm 3 OLB used as part of some 2-4/3-3 pass defense?
uffda udfa  
#6 Posted : Saturday, August 23, 2014 10:41:43 PM(UTC)
beast said: Go to Quoted Post
So you refuse to call Boykins a "lock" and insistent on a̶r̶g̶u̶i̶n̶g̶ debating with anyone who does because it's too early to call Boykins that as things could still change... but you're calling two rookies "bust"... seems a little hypocritical and/or pot stirring trollish... then again maybe it's because you like stirring the pot and debating and seems like you've always been very near the top of the most the "Most Posts" category ever since I've seen it be put in... trying to be like Aaron Rodgers and doing a little stat whoring of your own? =d>


Anyways I've said it before last year for D. Jones... to me I expect almost nothing out of rookie defensive interior linemen because they normally seem to need at least a year to adjust to the NFL. Yes I know that's not true for all but it seems true from most.

As for Bradford... yeah it seems like he's a bust. I can admit that just like I can admit Boykins was/is a lock if healthy.


I just find it interesting that you want to wait for all the possibility positive news and rush to post all the negative news and always want to debate it seems. But hey each to their own I guess.


GO PACK GO!!!


Boykin... no s. Not Boykins! I have no idea what you're talking about. The stats? Worst thing you could ever do to a forum is keep stats. I'm for abolishing the total posts. Some use that as a badge of honor as if the amount of posts they have validates their opinion more than someone with less posts.

Write Bob McGinn and call him a troll. Do Thornton and or Bradford deserve to make this team over UDFA's who need the same amount of time to develop but have played far better than the drafted players? Neither one of those scrubs deserves a spot on our 53. Both have been INVISIBLE against deep backups for other teams. If you can't admit how brutally disappointing that is when a guy like Mike Pennel plays decently over your 3rd round DE, then I don't know what else to say. I'm a troll for giving my honest heartfelt opinion? I HATED this draft...just HATED it from the moment it started. One of the worst I can recall in my mind, and so far it looks like Janis is the only one with true playmaking ability. Richard Rodgers might be okay. Dix, Adams are run of the mill....Goodson isn't very good, Linsley is OK.

Please, recall that Ted Thompson said when he drafted this class it was about WINNING NOW. LMAO...that is just classic. His 2014 draft class is a bunch of turds in a punchbowl but it's about winning now? How in the world did we give this guy an extension? He routinely blows picks on our defense. With the amount of resources pumped into it for it to be that bad is beyond troubling. You don't see it though. I don't get it.

What I type here is what I believe. I don't do it to upset you. I may know you'll be upset and I find myself editing myself in some cases to avoid that. Other times I just have to let it loose regardless of the reaction it's going to bring because I believe it that strongly.



beast  
#7 Posted : Saturday, August 23, 2014 11:19:21 PM(UTC)
uffda udfa said: Go to Quoted Post
Write Bob McGinn and call him a troll.

That would be more of a waste of my time than posting on a blog... McGinn knows he can be a troll as are a number of writing looking for hits/attention for being a bit harsh in the shock jock department... Skip Bayless is probably one of the leaders in that... seems like he tries to say the thing that will outrage listeners the most to keep them watching...

I don't think Bradford deserves to make the team...

Thornton sure why not? He has looked like one of the 6 best DL to me, and they have been keeping 6.
uffda udfa said: Go to Quoted Post
I'm a troll for giving my honest heartfelt opinion?


I didn't say that... I think you enjoy debating/arguing your points and maybe stirring the pot, yes... though it seems like when you disagree with something you can't let arguments go... (which I have the same problem time from time with people, but seems like you have it with everyone).

uffda udfa said: Go to Quoted Post
I HATED this draft...just HATED it from the moment it started. One of the worst I can recall in my mind, and so far it looks like Janis is the only one with true playmaking ability.


Base on what you seem to like, it seems like you go for true huge potential which are normally the high risk (with large chances of busting) but also the most potential if they don't bust out. I have fallen in love with some of them myself (I badly wanted Dontari Poe to be a Packer... I wanted them to trade up for him if he fell... he didn't fall though enough). But a number of those huge potential guys do bust as well other wise they don't fall into the later picks normally anyways.

I think this draft was more boring because of no trades, but I didn't hate this draft half as much as the Perry draft...

uffda udfa said: Go to Quoted Post
Please, recall that Ted Thompson said when he drafted this class it was about WINNING NOW.

Wait people listen to Thompson still? ... seriously? ... he hates talking with the media and going does it because he has too... so when he gets up there he doesn't say anything of importance just blows win and gives them stuff to write about.

uffda udfa said: Go to Quoted Post
I find myself editing myself in some cases to avoid that.


Thank you... and same here.
beast  
#8 Posted : Saturday, August 23, 2014 11:22:34 PM(UTC)
Mucky Tundra said: Go to Quoted Post
Hm 3 OLB used as part of some 2-4/3-3 pass defense?

I think 3 OLB as in sometimes using Peppers/Neal as a DL as well as maybe using one of the OLBers as in an ILBers in a certain package (not full time thing) but maybe in some 3rd down or need to rush the passer type defense.
Laser Gunns  
#9 Posted : Sunday, August 24, 2014 1:16:43 AM(UTC)
Let's face it,

Our staff has no f*cking clue what they are doing on defense.

From Ted to Dom.

We have for 5 years been playing the "square peg / round hole" game with personnel.

(Notable examples: Jarius Wynn, CJ Wilson, BJ Raji (DE), Ryan Pickett (DE), Jerel Worthy, Erik Walden, Mike Neal, Nick Perry)

Combo with terrible drafts and injuries... And still 5 years later we can't field a proper 11-man base 3/4.

And remember... This is the staff that started Jarrett Bush Week 1 against the 49ers.

We all knew, and know how that turned out.

Ted has had 5 years to get this D sorted, 5 drafts, 5 free agent classes, and it's as much a mess now as it was day 1.
StarrMax1  
#10 Posted : Sunday, August 24, 2014 5:37:47 AM(UTC)
Love the title of this thread.
Another attempt to validate the completely ignorant stance that Ted Thompson should not have had his contract extended.

Have they been disapointments? yes

Are they busts? Hell no!!!

When did the expectations for 3rd and 4th rnd draft picks become so high that if they don't immediately show they are starter or even immediate backup material, they are labeled busts?

It's great when it works out that way(see Bahktiari).

Only in the eyes of those who have one agenda and one agenda only on this forum, are these 2 guys busts, which of course makes the whole draft class a bust.

Complete stupidity!!!

Thornton will probably make the 53 man roster, he will also probably be one of the inactives the first part of the season.

Bradford on the other hand will probably be one of the last cuts, he will either get claimed or he won't, if he does, well good luck to him(won't be the 1st 4th rounder to ever get cut), if he doesn't, there is a pretty good chance he will end up on the practice squad.

The move to Inside Linebacker may be an option, but that wouldn't have happened in one pre-season anyway, so if that becomes the plan down the road, a year on the PS is just what he needs.

This is the one quote from the story, that those who didn't take the time to read the whole article would never have seen.

McGinn
"The object always is to win games. Does it make any difference if the players contributing to the winning cause are draft picks or free agents? It most assuredly does not."

Looking foward to the 10 pages of rebuttals and "quotes" from articles the last 9 years to validate what as I stated before, a completely ignorant stance.
musccy  
#11 Posted : Sunday, August 24, 2014 6:53:42 AM(UTC)
StarrMax1 said: Go to Quoted Post

McGinn
"The object always is to win games. Does it make any difference if the players contributing to the winning cause are draft picks or free agents? It most assuredly does not."


Exactly.

First, looking at just the draft class, it's hard to call it a dud this early for all the obvious reasons (3 year assessment), plus it looks like the potential is there to have picked up 4 solid receiving threats, a C that could develop as a long snapper and/or C, and a safe pick that could be a solid albeit maybe not spectacular safety. Clearly too early to say that with any certainty, just as it's too early to definitively declare Thornton and Bradford busts or effectively grade this draft.

Additionally, Elliot and Pennel (I'll admit I was skeptical about him and am starting to change my opinion) appear to be solid additions that could not only make the roster, but possibly be solid contributors on the active roster.



uffda udfa  
#12 Posted : Sunday, August 24, 2014 7:14:51 AM(UTC)
StarrMax1 said: Go to Quoted Post
Love the title of this thread.
Another attempt to validate the completely ignorant stance that Ted Thompson should not have had his contract extended.

Have they been disapointments? yes

Are they busts? Hell no!!!

When did the expectations for 3rd and 4th rnd draft picks become so high that if they don't immediately show they are starter or even immediate backup material, they are labeled busts?

It's great when it works out that way(see Bahktiari).

Only in the eyes of those who have one agenda and one agenda only on this forum, are these 2 guys busts, which of course makes the whole draft class a bust.

Complete stupidity!!!

Thornton will probably make the 53 man roster, he will also probably be one of the inactives the first part of the season.

Bradford on the other hand will probably be one of the last cuts, he will either get claimed or he won't, if he does, well good luck to him(won't be the 1st 4th rounder to ever get cut), if he doesn't, there is a pretty good chance he will end up on the practice squad.

The move to Inside Linebacker may be an option, but that wouldn't have happened in one pre-season anyway, so if that becomes the plan down the road, a year on the PS is just what he needs.

This is the one quote from the story, that those who didn't take the time to read the whole article would never have seen.

McGinn
"The object always is to win games. Does it make any difference if the players contributing to the winning cause are draft picks or free agents? It most assuredly does not."

Looking foward to the 10 pages of rebuttals and "quotes" from articles the last 9 years to validate what as I stated before, a completely ignorant stance.


The point is you can't admit it is disappointing that UDFA's have outplayed our 3rd and 4th rounders...I would argue that Janis our 7th has outplayed our 2nd in Adams. Rolle at a different position has outplayed our 1 in Dix, but Rolle wasn't a this year guy. It just gets old watching our draftees bringing nothing to the table. It's a total failure by the GM and scouting department and no it is not wrong or crazy to suggest Ted Thompson shouldn't have gotten an extension. How many more years do you want to watch this defense suck and Aaron's career tick away? You're fine with it and it won't take 15 pages to figure it out.

Yes, it doesn't matter where guys come from but the true difference makers are found in Round 1... we can get solid players as UDFA's but next to none of them will ever be special like 1st rounders can be. Check that HOF link I posted. The overwhelming # of HOF players come from Round 1. That is where our two best came from in Aaron and Clay.

This sad defense of Ted Thompson is puzzling. You do not see it as it is... I understand the love affair in the sense the warm and fuzzy you get being in the playoffs. We've left so much on the table it's sad. You focus on the playoff appearances. I focus on the waste of what we do when we get there.
gbguy20  
#13 Posted : Sunday, August 24, 2014 7:35:36 AM(UTC)
Isn't Bradford one of the guys that uffda was actually happy with after the draft?
DarkaneRules  
#14 Posted : Sunday, August 24, 2014 7:52:30 AM(UTC)
uffda udfa said: Go to Quoted Post
Great piece by McGinn... again, we fail to hit on defensive players in the draft. Thornton and Bradford should both be cut.

When I was lamenting this draft I took a lot of heat for doing so. As of now, and things can surely change, this looks like one of the worst drafts in Green Bay in a long long time. Abbrederis and Janis might be the two best things to come out of it when all is said and done.


Really enjoyed this article. It made a lot of great observations. The media is allowed to be just as reactionary as we are if they want. I have built a trust in McGinn's opinion and a lot of it rang true for me. But as far as the main premise of the article, I am currently 50/50. Thornton has been even more disappointing when he is compared against Boyd. I like Boyd. He really came on at the end of last season and continues to show improvement this pre-season. However, last pre-season I wasn't impressed with him early on so give Thornton a freaking chance here people.

Bradford on the other hand is at a position in this defense where you at least need to see something... a hint of anything. He hasn't shown it and although I won't call Thornton a wasted pick yet, I am leaning strongly toward that statement for Carl. Despite his build and where we all think he should be playing, I expected to see... ya know... something!
musccy  
#15 Posted : Sunday, August 24, 2014 8:05:09 AM(UTC)
DarkaneRules said: Go to Quoted Post
I like Boyd. He really came on at the end of last season and continues to show improvement this pre-season. However, last pre-season I wasn't impressed with him early on so give Thornton a freaking chance here people.
!

ThumpUp He was inactive until November-ish, and now many of us feel he'll be a solid contributor. Same thing for Thornton, we're talking about 4 weeks of camp from a guy that many media "experts" felt was a raw talent that may have been a reach, but was picked on a projection. Again, 4 weeks and we're throwing in the towel on a mid-round pick?





StarrMax1  
#16 Posted : Sunday, August 24, 2014 8:46:06 AM(UTC)
uffda udfa said: Go to Quoted Post
The point is you can't admit it is disappointing that UDFA's have outplayed our 3rd and 4th rounders...I would argue that Janis our 7th has outplayed our 2nd in Adams. Rolle at a different position has outplayed our 1 in Dix, but Rolle wasn't a this year guy. It just gets old watching our draftees bringing nothing to the table. It's a total failure by the GM and scouting department and no it is not wrong or crazy to suggest Ted Thompson shouldn't have gotten an extension. How many more years do you want to watch this defense suck and Aaron's career tick away? You're fine with it and it won't take 15 pages to figure it out.

Yes, it doesn't matter where guys come from but the true difference makers are found in Round 1... we can get solid players as UDFA's but next to none of them will ever be special like 1st rounders can be. Check that HOF link I posted. The overwhelming # of HOF players come from Round 1. That is where our two best came from in Aaron and Clay.

This sad defense of Ted Thompson is puzzling. You do not see it as it is... I understand the love affair in the sense the warm and fuzzy you get being in the playoffs. We've left so much on the table it's sad. You focus on the playoff appearances. I focus on the waste of what we do when we get there.


Same bullshit, different thread, blah, blah, blah.

I get you don't like Ted Thompson,that's fine, your opinion, beyond that, you haven't posted one other thing that is YOUR opinion.

All you do is drudge up old articles, post them, like they are suppose to validate anything.

So sick of hearing about "Aaron's career ticking away", like he is the only guy playing football in Green Bay.

So tired of you using your psycho babble trying to convince others that we all should agree with you.

I'm suppose to feel guilty because The Packers haven't won in the playoffs in a couple of years, or I'm not the fan you are because I can actually enjoy watching The Packers play football whether they win or lose.

I can't admit UDFA's have outplayed some draft picks?

It happens every year, I'll give Ted Thompson and his scouts credit for bringing in the guys who do excell as UDFA's, without them, there would be a hell of a lot more losing in Green Bay.

So,obviously by your post, you do expect any player who is drafted by The Green Bay Packers to instantly be starter ready. (Unrealistic)

You remind me of that 90's rapper Vanilla Ice, "ice ice baby", one hit wonder, but he just kept regurgitating it time and time again, in different genre's, until everyone just got sick of the song.

Find a new Rap, your woe is me, I don't understand, is just making most sick.

I really question whether you are really a Packer fan, as much negativity that flies around this forum at times, it doesn't compare to your absolute crap attitude.

Can't Wait, we still have 9 pages to go.

Please post me an article saying Rolle has outplayed Clinton Dix.

Or is this just another of your many fabrications?

Tell me again how u just don't understand how I can enjoy Packer Football.

I'll tell you again, your are just full of crap.





musccy  
#17 Posted : Sunday, August 24, 2014 9:09:14 AM(UTC)
StarrMax1 said: Go to Quoted Post


I can't admit UDFA's have outplayed some draft picks?

It happens every year, I'll give Ted Thompson and his scouts credit for bringing in the guys who do excell as UDFA's, without them, there would be a hell of a lot more losing in Green Bay.



Uffda or others who criticize the team for missing in early rounds have a point. As I've stated in other threads, there are tangible consequences for missing early, especially for a team that doesn't utilize F.A. often.

With that said, it ultimately comes down to fielding the best team by whatever means necessary. The same scouts missing in the early rounds are the ones finding Shields, Elliot, Barclay, Pennel, etc. so you can't solely criticize them for the misses.

DarkaneRules  
#18 Posted : Sunday, August 24, 2014 9:44:21 AM(UTC)
If Elliot turns out to be a player and Bradford doesn't I won't be upset because of where they're drafted. At the end of the day, that really doesn't matter me as long as you find talented guys on your 53 and field a competitive team. If this were last year though, I'd be peeved because the OLB depth was really bad last year.
uffda udfa  
#19 Posted : Sunday, August 24, 2014 10:59:02 AM(UTC)
gbguy20 said: Go to Quoted Post
Isn't Bradford one of the guys that uffda was actually happy with after the draft?


Yes. Go back and see why I was happy. Read what I wrote when I heard not long after he was picked that they were going to use him as an OLB. I was happy because I thought he'd bring some crazy toughness to the middle of the D. I said Bradford would be a major bust at OLB and same for Thornton on DL. Read how I lamented his terrible measurables for OLB. McGinn mentioned those in his piece that every scout but apparently the Packers scouts knew this kid couldn't play OLB at the NFL level. There is a failing and disconnect somewhere. We can't wait to pounce on guys falling down draft boards, but they usually fall for a reason. Not always but most of the time. See Worthy... see Bradford...Bulaga, etc. Before you hammer me for Bulaga, he was touted as a high pick because he was supposed to be a LT, which he is not. A 1st rounder on a right tackle is a waste especially given who we could've added instead. Dez Bryant was sitting there and we took a stiff of a LT in Bryan Bulaga. Dez Bryant is an absolute monster...a true superstar. Bulaga is an adequate RIGHT tackle. Another terrible miss for what we could've done there. I was losing my mind seeing Dez sitting there and we took the guy who couldn't play LT...all the other NFL teams knew he couldn't play it...but not us... we saw that great value and missed out on a superstar. I follow the draft very closely....my favorite event in sports. Ted Thompson ain't as good as you think...especially up high. I love what we do after the draft but during the first rounds unless it's a WR you can usually forget about getting anything of value.

If you recall the Bradford thing, then you must also recall I was happy with Abbrederis and Janis...and Lyerla. Those were the 3 guys I was most excited about.


DarkaneRules  
#20 Posted : Sunday, August 24, 2014 11:15:31 AM(UTC)
Cool. In any case, we are alright at OLB and DE this year I believe. The depth is tight at Center and NT though and we have Raji go down and now Tretter is not practicing today. Every year seems to have another couple position group or two draw the short end of the stick.
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