nerdmann
9 years ago


That game turned on Rodgers tweeking his hammy and the 2 tipped passes that resulted in turnovers.

Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan 



Yes, this game turned on Rodgers tweaking his hammy.

Because as usual, this team used up all it's margin of error, and then some. Because of that, when something (inevitably) bad happened, GAME OVER.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
9 years ago

Yes, this game turned on Rodgers tweaking his hammy.

Because as usual, this team used up all it's margin of error, and then some. Because of that, when something (inevitably) bad happened, GAME OVER.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



Which just reiterates that this team is average at best without out the elite QB leading the way.
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Zero2Cool
9 years ago

Which just reiterates that this team is average at best without out the elite QB leading the way.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



Then it's a good thing the league has made a slew of average QB's elite with their rules.
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QCHuskerFan
9 years ago
I guess my main issue with all of the complaints is that I feel like everyone thinks it is easy to fix things. Like coaching in the NFL is like taking a multiplication test. Here's all the answers. Just put them down and the problem is solved. Let's ignore the trend rapidly discouraging defense. Let's ignore injuries. Let's ignore recent practice rule changes. Better coaching would.

In my mind, Dom has tried to gently shift his defense to be more geared to stop the athletic QB's that were gashing the Packers in recent years. They have shifted away from large bodies in the middle and gone for length. This may help against Kaepernick and Newton and Griffin, but it creates a weakness against true running teams. If the offense and special teams holds up it's end, that will work more times than not.

Football is a team game. Seattle has a great defense, right? Then why did they barely beat the woeful Raiders at home? 49ers have a top 5 D. But lost at home to the Rams? I think too many of you play Madden or some other game that has a minimum of variables. Arguably the best team in the league was embarrassed, washed up and bound for the scrap pile 4 weeks ago. They must have replaced all of their bad coaches in Oct as they just destroyed Denver. But they destroyed Denver while giving up 436 yards passing. Why? Because it's a team game. NE offense and Special Teams out performed Denvers D and special teams.

In the Packers game against the Saints, our offense didn't hold up their end. The D was in the game until Rodgers was hurt. Our D was not holding them scoreless. But if you want that, give up NFL and watch soccer. At the midpoint of the season, after playing arguably the tougher half, Packer D is giving up nearly 3 pts less per game than in 2013. By comparison, Seattle is giving up more than a TD per game more than in 2013. 49ers are giving up 5.2 points more per game than in 2013.

How many dominant teams are there in the NFL? None, in my opinion. Other than about 3-4 bottom feeders, any given team can win on any given day. 1 or 2 plays is about all that separates most teams. Anybody think we lose to the Saints if Rodgers isn't injured? Maybe, but it'd be close. Close enough that one or 2 plays would have decided it.

Trying to develop a dominant D is like trying to fix Michelle Duggar's virginity. It's not going to happen.
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
9 years ago

I guess my main issue with all of the complaints is that I feel like everyone thinks it is easy to fix things. Like coaching in the NFL is like taking a multiplication test. Here's all the answers. Just put them down and the problem is solved. Let's ignore the trend rapidly discouraging defense. Let's ignore injuries. Let's ignore recent practice rule changes. Better coaching would.

In my mind, Dom has tried to gently shift his defense to be more geared to stop the athletic QB's that were gashing the Packers in recent years. They have shifted away from large bodies in the middle and gone for length. This may help against Kaepernick and Newton and Griffin, but it creates a weakness against true running teams. If the offense and special teams holds up it's end, that will work more times than not.

Football is a team game. Seattle has a great defense, right? Then why did they barely beat the woeful Raiders at home? 49ers have a top 5 D. But lost at home to the Rams? I think too many of you play Madden or some other game that has a minimum of variables. Arguably the best team in the league was embarrassed, washed up and bound for the scrap pile 4 weeks ago. They must have replaced all of their bad coaches in Oct as they just destroyed Denver. But they destroyed Denver while giving up 436 yards passing. Why? Because it's a team game. NE offense and Special Teams out performed Denvers D and special teams.

In the Packers game against the Saints, our offense didn't hold up their end. The D was in the game until Rodgers was hurt. Our D was not holding them scoreless. But if you want that, give up NFL and watch soccer. At the midpoint of the season, after playing arguably the tougher half, Packer D is giving up nearly 3 pts less per game than in 2013. By comparison, Seattle is giving up more than a TD per game more than in 2013. 49ers are giving up 5.2 points more per game than in 2013.

How many dominant teams are there in the NFL? None, in my opinion. Other than about 3-4 bottom feeders, any given team can win on any given day. 1 or 2 plays is about all that separates most teams. Anybody think we lose to the Saints if Rodgers isn't injured? Maybe, but it'd be close. Close enough that one or 2 plays would have decided it.

Trying to develop a dominant D is like trying to fix Michelle Duggar's virginity. It's not going to happen.

Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan 




QCH I think you may have mistaken the comments by other members as hating the team the players or the coaching staff.

Obviously it is not an easy fix. If it was anyone could do it. Obviously we do not have insider access to the real stories only what the team feels like telling the general public.

Can we not complain or express frustration at all? Must we smile all the time no matter what happens?

It is frustrating to se the defense grow worse and worse year by year. Perhaps it is more to the rules favoring offenses these days but other teams do not have the same problems. As for changing up DL to battle a few running QBs think about that for a moment. GB certainly needs to contain the running QB but how many games is that a year? 3 at most unless they are in the playoffs. How many average even mediocre RBs have had a field day with the defense this year? Looks like a failure to me. Am I not allowed to say what everyone can see? GB’s defense is last in the NFL. Doesn’t look like the brain trust had a better idea to me.

Injuries happen to every team. Why does it seem to land on GB more than other teams? After seeing this happen for 3, 4 even 5 years I personally think fans are entitled to ask why. If someone else wants sit back and quietly say things happen I don’t assume they are less of a fan than I am but why should I be consider less of a fan than you are simply because I question whether or not GB as an organization has adequately prepared. They need to make sure the players do all the things necessary pregame and all the way back into the offseason to avoid injuries. They also have to target specific positions that if an injury occurs and it will, that they have someone who can step in and fill the gap. Some positions they do and some they don’t. Obviously they can not have 53 Hall of Famers on their team. No one has even remotely implied that but they do lack depth in key places and it has been that way for a while.

We know it is not an easy fix but it would be nice to se the organization recognize the issues that we lay people can see and work toward improving the situation. The only way we know that they know is for them to specifically tells us so and they are not going to do that. Or for us to see the actual improvement being made and that is a bit iffy at best. Is it wrong for fans to have a strong desire for their team to perform at an advanced level? I hope not.

As for picking out single games for your thesis, they are meaningless. Certainly any given Sunday is a real possibility. But there have now been 9 Sundays along with a few Thursdays and Mondays and when the team is last in rush defense it is no long a 1 week aberration. It is a clear cut failure to perform.




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nerdmann
9 years ago

Which just reiterates that this team is average at best without out the elite QB leading the way.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



Thats about as good as you can be, when you only show up for 2 quarters a week and repeatedly shit yourself. But the potential is there, imo.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
9 years ago

Thats about as good as you can be, when you only show up for 2 quarters a week and repeatedly shit yourself. But the potential is there, imo.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



Potential and a bag of chips will only go so far.

BTW QC I do like your posts. I hope to read more of them soon.
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QCHuskerFan
9 years ago

QCH I think you may have mistaken the comments by other members as hating the team the players or the coaching staff.

Obviously it is not an easy fix. If it was anyone could do it. Obviously we do not have insider access to the real stories only what the team feels like telling the general public.

Can we not complain or express frustration at all? Must we smile all the time no matter what happens?

It is frustrating to se the defense grow worse and worse year by year. Perhaps it is more to the rules favoring offenses these days but other teams do not have the same problems. As for changing up DL to battle a few running QBs think about that for a moment. GB certainly needs to contain the running QB but how many games is that a year? 3 at most unless they are in the playoffs. How many average even mediocre RBs have had a field day with the defense this year? Looks like a failure to me. Am I not allowed to say what everyone can see? GB’s defense is last in the NFL. Doesn’t look like the brain trust had a better idea to me.

Injuries happen to every team. Why does it seem to land on GB more than other teams? After seeing this happen for 3, 4 even 5 years I personally think fans are entitled to ask why. If someone else wants sit back and quietly say things happen I don’t assume they are less of a fan than I am but why should I be consider less of a fan than you are simply because I question whether or not GB as an organization has adequately prepared. They need to make sure the players do all the things necessary pregame and all the way back into the offseason to avoid injuries. They also have to target specific positions that if an injury occurs and it will, that they have someone who can step in and fill the gap. Some positions they do and some they don’t. Obviously they can not have 53 Hall of Famers on their team. No one has even remotely implied that but they do lack depth in key places and it has been that way for a while.

We know it is not an easy fix but it would be nice to se the organization recognize the issues that we lay people can see and work toward improving the situation. The only way we know that they know is for them to specifically tells us so and they are not going to do that. Or for us to see the actual improvement being made and that is a bit iffy at best. Is it wrong for fans to have a strong desire for their team to perform at an advanced level? I hope not.

As for picking out single games for your thesis, they are meaningless. Certainly any given Sunday is a real possibility. But there have now been 9 Sundays along with a few Thursdays and Mondays and when the team is last in rush defense it is no long a 1 week aberration. It is a clear cut failure to perform.



Originally Posted by: wpr 



Sorry. When people refer to players as fat pieces of shit, I assumed they didn't care for them. I didn't realize that was a rational discussion of their maternal grandmothers genetics.

If I cared enough, we could probably find the posts last year complaining about how the Packers needed to defend the Read Option better. They were endless after the 49ers destroyed the Packer playoffs 2 years in a row. So Capers made an adjustment. Is it right? Well, if the only measure is shutting out the other teams and winning the Super Bowl, it's not.

I get your depth argument. But with a roster of 53, no one has depth. Every team is 1 injury away from playing UDFA in a starting role. Think about our T depth. The last 2 years, our tackles are Bulaga and Sherrod. Both #1 picks! Except Bakhtiari and Barclay have made more starts. T is key, right? Important position? Packers have had remarkable depth there. Even though many consider Campen to be the 2nd coming of Lucifer, he manages to get decent play out of whatever combination he has.

One of my points is that the Packers Defense is better than last year. In a year in which defense is not easy, the Packers are giving up less points than last year. So the lunatic ranters are not only wrong, but ignorant of facts. (Yes, I realize that facts hinder online forum tough guys.)

If run defense was so important, how is it that the Packers are 5-3? Oakland Raiders have the 8th best yards per carry defense. Would you rather be a fan of the Raiders? They are much better, right?

It right for fans to have expectations and hopes. I do. But I don't cuss and yell at individuals when they don't do what I want. I don't call people that I've never met 'Fat Pieces of Shit' based on how well I perceive they are doing something I am infinitely less capable of doing, let alone understanding.

I am just asking for a little perspective. The Packers are not going to win the Super Bowl. Only 1 team is, so the odds are against any individual team. We didn't win when we were 15-1 so why would we this year? It just gets old listening to the whiners that come out everytime the Packers lose. 16-0 is not going to happen. Winning the Super Bowl every year is not going to happen. If that is how a person measures success, it is no wonder there are so many hateful people. I am a diehard Packer fan, which is why I come here. Whiny complainers is why I don't come and post every day.
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
9 years ago
You have a lot here so I will break it out a little bit and remove some of it for expediency's sake.


Sorry. When people refer to players as fat pieces of shit, I assumed they didn't care for them. I didn't realize that was a rational discussion of their maternal grandmothers genetics.

Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan 



I didn't see this. There are some posters comments that I do not read. I agree it is uncalled for. I will say that I like having big fatties on the DL. I want them to clog the middle and stop the run. If you take away the run and make a team one dimensional you have a better chance of winning. A team can still devote their resources to the secondary and have a wall for a DL.


If I cared enough, we could probably find the posts last year complaining about how the Packers needed to defend the Read Option better. They were endless after the 49ers destroyed the Packer playoffs 2 years in a row. So Capers made an adjustment. Is it right? Well, if the only measure is shutting out the other teams and winning the Super Bowl, it's not.



Don't bother. I know we did. It was embarrassing. SF made them look like they were a HS team that had never seen those kinds of formations.

I know GB has to stop the read option QB but they can do so without making themselves so soft against the run overall. And I am not so sure they really were that effective with this new system stopping the read option. Other teams have looked at GB and taken what they are given and moving down field at ease. Either with the pass or the run.


One of my points is that the Packers Defense is better than last year. In a year in which defense is not easy, the Packers are giving up less points than last year. So the lunatic ranters are not only wrong, but ignorant of facts. (Yes, I realize that facts hinder online forum tough guys.)

If run defense was so important, how is it that the Packers are 5-3? Oakland Raiders have the 8th best yards per carry defense. Would you rather be a fan of the Raiders? They are much better, right?



I realize many will look at the points as being the only stat that counts but I don’t think so. (We had a discussion on this board a year or two ago.) It is an indicator but the other stats have to be included. For example a team can lose a game by 30 points and win 15 games by 1 point be 15-1 and still have given more points than they scored. Another team can win their only game by 30 points and lost 15 by one point and have a better point total margin. The same can be said for how many points a defense gives up. If a team gets into a shootout and they resemble an arena football team they may have a great defense but they are still going to give up more points than a ball control team that slowly plods down field burning up the clock and limited both tams to a possession a quarter.

I looked at a bunch of stats for 13 and 14 but I am not going to post them all here. I probably didn’t say it correctly when I said the defense is worse this year than last. I was referring to the run defense. However, over all defense is almost the same as last year. Total yards almost the same. Time of possession worse this year. Penalties about the same. Yards per play a little better. The old “get off the field” indicator 3rd down conversions worse this year. 4th down slightly better but naturally there are not a lot of those in a game. Giving up big plays is down quite a bit from last year.

Here is my concern, if another team can look at GB and find the weakness they can dictate the game and control what the GB offense is able to do. I know the NFL rules favor the offense these days but if GB has a defense that is so strong the other team can not move the ball GB will find a way to win with Aaron as the QB. If we have to shrug our shoulders and say oh well it is an offense dominated league and GB simply has to score more points in order to win they will only be slightly better than .500 year after year until Aaron gets to old &/or injured to keep and they will fall into the cellar quickly.

The main deference between GB and Oakland is #12. Aaron makes the receivers not the other way around. Jordy started out like a bolt of lighting and once other teams focused more on him be became a little more pedestrian in his numbers. (First 4 games receptions: 9/9/5/10 2nd 4: 1/9/4/3. Yards from largest to smallest: 209/108/83/59 vs. 107/80/66/25.) I am not advocating the dumping of Jordy. I am simply saying the offense begins and ends with Aaron.


It right for fans to have expectations and hopes. I do. But I don't cuss and yell at individuals when they don't do what I want. I don't call people that I've never met 'Fat Pieces of Shit' based on how well I perceive they are doing something I am infinitely less capable of doing, let alone understanding.


You are a better person than others. I try and take the rants with a grain of salt.


I am just asking for a little perspective. The Packers are not going to win the Super Bowl. Only 1 team is, so the odds are against any individual team. We didn't win when we were 15-1 so why would we this year? It just gets old listening to the whiners that come out everytime the Packers lose. 16-0 is not going to happen. Winning the Super Bowl every year is not going to happen. If that is how a person measures success, it is no wonder there are so many hateful people.



I can’t speak for everyone but those who are frustrated with the Packers performances this year and in the past few years know they won’t go 19-0. They know that they won’t win a SB every single year.

I am not trying to pick on you or your age but many of those who are frustrated lived though the teams of the 70s and 80s. We know mediocrity first hand. We saw it last year with Aaron was injured and this team is not too different than those teams. We remember the 90s when the team slowly built up to winning in the playoffs. There were some heart breaking loses to that evil team from the south. Some agonizing games with the other dominate team SF. It felt good when we were finally able to beat them on a consistent basis. Now when we lose to SF 4 straight times it is annoying. The 8 times they won prior to that no longer count.



I am a diehard Packer fan, which is why I come here. Whiny complainers is why I don't come and post every day.



Whiners will always be here and every where. Come anyhow.
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QCHuskerFan
9 years ago


I am not trying to pick on you or your age but many of those who are frustrated lived though the teams of the 70s and 80s. We know mediocrity first hand. We saw it last year with Aaron was injured and this team is not too different than those teams. We remember the 90s when the team slowly built up to winning in the playoffs. There were some heart breaking loses to that evil team from the south. Some agonizing games with the other dominate team SF. It felt good when we were finally able to beat them on a consistent basis. Now when we lose to SF 4 straight times it is annoying. The 8 times they won prior to that no longer count.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



I thought maybe the opposite was true. I grew up with the Packer sweep. I lived in the darkness through the 70's & 80's. I believe that's why I am so tolerant of imperfection. Because no matter how bad it is today, it's so much better than it was. I assumed the whiners were all Johnny come lately's that had never lived bad. Being in the playoffs 2 times between Super Bowl II and 1994 is bad. The Devine, Starr, Gregg and Infante years were bad. Losing to a perrenial playoff team with a HOF QB in their stadium is not bad.

Other than that, wpr, I think we would enjoy a beer and discussing football. Have a good one.
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