buckeyepackfan
9 years ago

Guys I need some words because I'm very worried about the secondary.

Who is in my opinion our best cover CB (House) is injured and it seems to be serious enough.
Shields is playing really bad, what's wrong with him? He is being too Shields, he doesn't cover, just floats around and hopes to get to the ball based on his speed but is not working.

Burnett is playing LB, Ha Ha has some goods and lows and I've never liked Hayward.

On the good side Hyde is a smart player and I like how we are using him and Tramon is having a good season.

Please tell me we'll be ok.

Originally Posted by: luigis 



The Packers will be OK!!!!!
[grin1]

15 games, 16 weeks into the season, we all have seen quite a bit of improvement on The D's side as the year has gone by.

At this point, They are what they are!!!!


I was addicted to The Hokey Pokey, but I turned myself around!
Porforis
9 years ago

Davon House? I think fans think he's Al Harris and just don't actually watch the guy lol

Casey Hayward is one of the top 10 rated cornerbacks on ProFootballFocus.com

8.4 Hayward with 386 snaps
-0.1 House with 411 snaps

Hayward 3 INT's with only 2 passes defensed and gave up 2 touchdowns
House 1 INT but has team leading 8 passes defensed and gave up 3 touchdowns


Sam Shields is a -5.1 but his speed is why I'd rather him on Calvin Johnson.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Shields is the best man available VS Calvin. But they need to double or tripleteam him all game. It doesn't matter if Shields can keep up with Calvin with the sort of height difference you're dealing with.
PackFanWithTwins
9 years ago

Davon House? I think fans think he's Al Harris and just don't actually watch the guy lol

Casey Hayward is one of the top 10 rated cornerbacks on ProFootballFocus.com

8.4 Hayward with 386 snaps
-0.1 House with 411 snaps

Hayward 3 INT's with only 2 passes defensed and gave up 2 touchdowns
House 1 INT but has team leading 8 passes defensed and gave up 3 touchdowns


Sam Shields is a -5.1 but his speed is why I'd rather him on Calvin Johnson.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Sometimes the problem with stats like this is, the cannot really be used to compare the two. Hayward is almost solely playing the slot, House almost solely plays the edge. If Hayward was put in the same coverage and situations as House, he would likely perform worse than House. And the same goes the opposite, House isn't the best playing slot coverage.

We will likely do what we have done in the past to control Calvin. High/Low coverage.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
luigis
9 years ago

Wait why is our best cover CB a back-up? Does the CB not know what he's doing? Should the CB be fired? ... or could if be House isn't the best CB?

Originally Posted by: beast 



House is in my very humble opinion the most natural CB in the team, he has height and he goes step by step along the receiver. Shields and Tramon are probably better but they have a very different style covering. Tramon is a jammer and a route cutter. Shields is Shields, it's hard to describe but he is never next to his man, he is always some yards ahead peaking at the backfield and confident he can run faster than the pass if needed.


I find it interesting you don't like Hayward but like Hyde, when I've kind of seen them as almost the same player. Yes Hayward has better coverage instincts and speed, while Hyde has been attacking instincts and is more physical. But in a lot of ways they're the same skills that both have.
Also why haven't you like Hayward?

Originally Posted by: beast 



I agree with you Hayward and Hyde are very similar but I think Hyde is smarter and knows what he can or can't do. Perhaps is the coaching and not the player but I have the feeling Hyde knows his role better than Hayward.

Now about why I don't like Hayward. This is a personal opinion only I've said it before. I think Hayward plays soft, I think he doesn't like tackling. And don't ask me why but I have the feeling Hayward has bad chemistry with the rest of the secondary. In my crazy mind #2 makes sense due to #1.


Yeah... none of the Packers CBs can keep up with Megatron step by step one on one. At least when he's healthy.

Originally Posted by: beast 



Another big problem is that neither HaHa nor Burnett have CB skills to help cover an elite receiver.

Luis
luigis
9 years ago

Sometimes the problem with stats like this is, the cannot really be used to compare the two. Hayward is almost solely playing the slot, House almost solely plays the edge. If Hayward was put in the same coverage and situations as House, he would likely perform worse than House. And the same goes the opposite, House isn't the best playing slot coverage.

We will likely do what we have done in the past to control Calvin. High/Low coverage.

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 



I agree and I also have twins :)

The fact that Hayward can't play the edge is one of the things that I don't like about him. A CB must be able to play the edge and the slot, you can be better at one or the other but you have to be able to play both if needed. Shields and Tramon can play the slot, House can probably do it too but I can't see Hayward on the edge, no way.
Luis
sschind
9 years ago

Keep in mind that Tony Romo has never won a playoff game. Not to mention the Packers beat them last year with Matt Flynn as their starting QB. I know none of that hardly matters, but I'm really not worried about Dallas.

I'd be more worried about Atlanta than I would about Dallas.

Originally Posted by: blueleopard 



It doesn't "hardly matter" it doesn't matter at all and Romo has won a playoff game.

luigis
9 years ago

It doesn't "hardly matter" it doesn't matter at all and Romo has won a playoff game.

Originally Posted by: sschind 



If we defeat the Lions it is likely to be Dallas coming to Green Bay after blowing the kittens at Dallas in the wildcard.

If we lose against the Lions then it is likely we go to Dallas for the wildcard game.

So sooner or later we'll have to play Dallas and the secondary worries me.
Luis
Zero2Cool
9 years ago

I don't think Megatron takes ratings into consideration.
House is the only CB with the size and physical skill to go step by step with Megatron.

Shields is too fast, and that's a problem because he is used to playing 5-10 yards away from his mark just because he knows he can get to the ball in time. He also peaks into the backfield a lot.

I hope you are righ!

Originally Posted by: luigis 



I have a great source that tells me Calvin Johnson views the ratings and if higher than his, cannot sleep well the night before. True story!!


You're right, ratings are squat and as someone else pointed out Hayward plays slot more than the outside. However, I think the slot is more difficult to cover because your target has both directions, wheres on the outside you have the sideline to help wall off options.


If the Packers said they are going to match Davon House on Calvin Johnson, I would panic big time. House, in my opinion, is very over rated among fans. I tried to buy into the hype, I just can't.


If we're gonna say we need to match up the more physical cornerback based on size and strength, Jarrett Bush is the tallest and heaviest. I do not want that. lol


Thinking more into this ... Micah Hyde would probably the one I'd want to jam at the line and then have Tramon Williams cover the backend. That leaves Sam Shields one on one with Golden Tate.

UserPostedImage
luigis
9 years ago

I have a great source that tells me Calvin Johnson views the ratings and if higher than his, cannot sleep well the night before. True story!!


You're right, ratings are squat and as someone else pointed out Hayward plays slot more than the outside. However, I think the slot is more difficult to cover because your target has both directions, wheres on the outside you have the sideline to help wall off options.


If the Packers said they are going to match Davon House on Calvin Johnson, I would panic big time. House, in my opinion, is very over rated among fans. I tried to buy into the hype, I just can't.


If we're gonna say we need to match up the more physical cornerback based on size and strength, Jarrett Bush is the tallest and heaviest. I do not want that. lol


Thinking more into this ... Micah Hyde would probably the one I'd want to jam at the line and then have Tramon Williams cover the backend. That leaves Sam Shields one on one with Golden Tate.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



I prefer Tramon over Shields too for Megatron, Tramon is "more evil" he will probably get burned and outjumped as much as Shields but he might grab some misstimed pass or cut some repeated route for a big play. Tramon and Hyde are the smartest combination we have and Shields can go along with Tate's speed. We agree 100% on that.

About House: I don't think he is great or better than Tramon or Shields, but I think he is our best option to cover receivers like Megatron. If you put House on the edge and just let him be he will probably be a liability. Now if you put House on a WR and just ask him not to let him touch the ball then he will probably do a good job.

Another good thing about House is that he is more physical, he grabs, pushes, hits, collides, touches, etc... after 3 quarters being covered by House the WR is tired, after 3 quarters being "watched" by Shields you are as new as when the game started.

Luis
DoddPower
9 years ago

If the Packers said they are going to match Davon House on Calvin Johnson, I would panic big time. House, in my opinion, is very over rated among fans. I tried to buy into the hype, I just can't.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



But House isn't as overrated as Sam Shields. I think the majority of Packers fans think House is a good #3-4 cornerback who can match up against certain wide receivers well. Especially with safety help. But many Packers fans seem to think Sam Shields as a very good to great cornerback, and he just hasn't been this season, imo. He's fast, but also soft and sometimes appears to be going through the motions.

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beast (19h) : You saw only 4,201 of my mocks? 🥺 I think that means you missed more than half of them 😢
dfosterf (22h) : Does anyone know what Lambeau field improvements got put on hold? My guess would be for the 2025 draft
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : It's like listen, you made 4,201 mocks, no shit.
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : Cuz during the draft "I had them mocked there!" as if it's amazing.
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : They're fun to do once in awhile. It's people who think they are "content" that annoy me.
dfosterf (27-Mar) : Against tbd
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Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : NFL 2024 gonna start Sept 5th isn't it???
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : Ugh... kids these days!
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Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : Did we do one of those prediction threads yet for 2024 season?
dfosterf (27-Mar) : In my city, they are playing the nimby game, in order to keep some railroad tracks vs. 2 professional sports teams and a concert venue.
dfosterf (27-Mar) : And/Or a city council, of which I haven't seen a good one in a very long time
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buckeyepackfan (26-Mar) : Packers halt scheduled 80mil upgrade of stadium until lease agreement talks are restarted
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : City of Green Bay puts Packers' Lambeau Field lease talks on hold
buckeyepackfan (26-Mar) : Packers 1 of 3 teams to vote no on new kickoff rule.
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Packers sign another Kicker
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Lengthy explanation at PFF if you click the link
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Kickoff rules officially changed.ngthy explan
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : lol
Cheesey (26-Mar) : 2009? No thanks! One open heart surgery is enough!
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Good for you!
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Yes. That's the one.
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Is that "Lady Dugan" per chance?
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Crystal?
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Please refresh my memory
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Alan posts. Crystal back in my life. It's 2009 all over again! Lol
Mucky Tundra (26-Mar) : BAH GAWD! THAT'S CHEESEYS MUSIC!
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Gutekunst said early stages of Jordan Love contract being discussed.
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Shouldn't be penalized cuz official screwed up
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Yeah, challenge until you are incorrect twice.
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Fining them is the goal, per the people who made the rule anyway.
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Still waiting on the kickoff rule changes. Did hear yesterday that the touchback proposal will now be the 30 yard line, not the 35
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Probably speed of game issues with your proposal
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Hopefully the refs don't get in the habit of throwing flags on this
beast (25-Mar) : I think when it comes to Challenges should get two strikes, so unlimited challenges as long as they keep winning them, but 2 wrong then done
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Still subject to the fines etc
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Yes, I should have been more specific. Also, they are now saying it would be a 15 yard penalty. That makes more sense .
beast (25-Mar) : Simply fined in the week to follow
beast (25-Mar) : I agree with one NFL official, it'll probably be like some of the helmets hits, not really called by the refs on the field but simply fined
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Hip drop is not. Super confusing. Referees job is harder
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Swivel hip drop is banned
dfosterf (25-Mar) : The hip drop enforcement will be in the form of fines, etc. Not flags
dfosterf (25-Mar) : A major foul will be enforced on the offense if there are offsetting penalties in a change of possession situation
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