Zero2Cool
8 years ago

A thread or topic is only ruined if you (the posters) let that happen. You and only you decide where the direction goes. If you choose to participate in the alleged "ruining", you have no right whatsoever to point fingers. The second you say something is ruined, you have become part of the problem rather that choosing to be part of the solution. 

Think about it, how can someone ruin a thread if they are simply ignored by those who wish to see through the potential of a good topic? Think about that before you start pointing fingers at someone, or this "place". 


As for this specific topic, yes, Ted Thompson is very good at drafting, but one could argue that Mike McCarthy and staff are stellar at developing. It's the old which came first, the egg or the chicken.


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uffda udfa
8 years ago
I will go Nostradamus for a minute...

When, or if, Ted Thompson ever does build a respectable defense it will be shouted from the rooftops here and elsewhere what a great drafter and GM he is. All the years of total failure will be completely unacknowledged. It will only be said...look at what Ted Thompson did. It won't matter that it took 5+ years.

Another aspect of Ted Thompson that goes under thought about is the fact that we don't bring guys in from other teams. So, our draft picks have to play. Who else is going to? So, if we put a bunch of middling talent draft choices on the field because that's one of the only means we use that validates him as a great drafter? Of course our roster is going to be filled with Ted Thompson draft choices it's about the only store he shops at. Does that mean he's a great drafter or is he just a guy who has little other choice due to his personal preferences?


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Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


texaspackerbacker
8 years ago

A. The article was about TT's skill in the draft, and had nothing to do with free agency or his overall ability as a GM. The "but he doesn't go after FA's" argument doesn't have any relevance in this context.

B. The "without Aaron Rodgers..." trope is a tired logical fallacy. If you take away every GM's best pick/franchise QB, they look a lot worse. Do you think Belichick gets to 5 superbowls without Brady? How many does SF win without Montana? We can play the what if game all day, but the truth is nobody knows.

Before I get the stock "But everyone knew Rodgers was going to be a HOF QB, it was an easy pick" rebutal, spare yourself the trouble. You know this is a logical fallacy as well. Had every team known Rodgers was going to be as good as he is, one of the 23 teams ahead of the Packers in the draft would have picked him. No team passes on a surefire franchise QB in the draft. So why wasn't Rodgers picked sooner? It's simple, with hindsight, of course the pick was obviously the right choice, but GMs across the league have to make educated guesses, they don't get the benefit of hindsight that armchair fantasy GM's
do while retrospectively grading drafts.

Originally Posted by: earthquake 



Correct, nothing to do with inactivity in signing other teams' free agents, also nothing to do with the good job he has done with UDFAs. It's all about Ted's drafting, and I say again, other than Aaron Rodgers - a pick that, as I said, could be looked at either way: a super smart move OR an obvious choice after the Luck of Rodgers falling that far, other than that pick which MADE Ted's reputation, his drafting has been pretty mediocre. Of course, there have hits along the way - Clay Matthews being a notable one - just as virtually all GMs have had, but there have been way too many misses also along with a LOT of picks that arguably were as good as they were BECAUSE of Aaron Rodgers.

What was your "B" again? Oh yeah, you were saying it's "a tired logical fallacy" the "minus Aaron Rodgers" thing? I would have to disagree with you there. The examples you cited, as well as a LOT of others, GMs did a lot more to build a team around the superstar - and some did not. I would suggest Ted is comparable to the Indianapolis GM who had Peyton Manning - no maximization with him, and totally going in the toilet when they lost him.

As I said, my biggest gripe about Ted Thompson is that he has NOT maximized things. Rather than compare Ted to either the "good" GMs around the league or the "bad" ones, I will assert that pretty much ALL of them are what they are by LUCK. Your average mock drafter - be it a professional journalist or just some forum fool - could do as well, and the real GMs have a lot more resources available. For better or worse, it's still mostly a crap shoot, though. Ted has kept us in the hunt for all these years - I give him credit for that- but he hasn't given us the dynasty that a GM blessed with Aaron Rodgers NEEDS to produce to be considered Great or Stellar.
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sschind
8 years ago

I will go Nostradamus for a minute...

When, or if, Ted Thompson ever does build a respectable defense it will be shouted from the rooftops here and elsewhere what a great drafter and GM he is. All the years of total failure will be completely unacknowledged. It will only be said...look at what Ted Thompson did. It won't matter that it took 5+ years.

Another aspect of Ted Thompson that goes under thought about is the fact that we don't bring guys in from other teams. So, our draft picks have to play. Who else is going to? So, if we put a bunch of middling talent draft choices on the field because that's one of the only means we use that validates him as a great drafter? Of course our roster is going to be filled with Ted Thompson draft choices it's about the only store he shops at. Does that mean he's a great drafter or is he just a guy who has little other choice due to his personal preferences?

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



That doesn't sound like a Nostradamus prediction at all, didn't he write in four line rhymes and crap like that.

You make a good point about Packer draftees who become regular contributors. If the only guys on your team are guys that you drafted and someone has to start it stands to reason that a fair share of your draftees are going to become regular contributors if not great players. Opposed to say bringing in an equal quality FA who takes the position instead of your draftee. A FA that plays solidly for you for 8 years adds to your prowess as a GM but does nothing for your draftness. It may even hurt if the FA ends up taking the roster spot of a draftee. A draftee that does the same will not only add to your overall GMness but it will improve your draftness. (I made up those new words just for this thread. Feel free to take them, use them and make them your own.)

As a possible refute of this claim I would suggest that you look at the number of Packers draftees that go on to become regular contributors elsewhere. I say possible refute because I do not have the time or the desire to go through and figure that out. It may not even turn out to be true, I'm just saying that if I wanted to refute this claim that is where I would start. Of course you would have to look at all the other teams draftees that went on to have solid careers with other teams and that if far beyond my ability or desire.

uffda udfa
8 years ago

That doesn't sound like a Nostradamus prediction at all, didn't he write in four line rhymes and crap like that.

You make a good point about Packer draftees who become regular contributors. If the only guys on your team are guys that you drafted and someone has to start it stands to reason that a fair share of your draftees are going to become regular contributors if not great players. Opposed to say bringing in an equal quality FA who takes the position instead of your draftee. A FA that plays solidly for you for 8 years adds to your prowess as a GM but does nothing for your draftness. It may even hurt if the FA ends up taking the roster spot of a draftee. A draftee that does the same will not only add to your overall GMness but it will improve your draftness. (I made up those new words just for this thread. Feel free to take them, use them and make them your own.)

As a possible refute of this claim I would suggest that you look at the number of Packers draftees that go on to become regular contributors elsewhere. I say possible refute because I do not have the time or the desire to go through and figure that out. It may not even turn out to be true, I'm just saying that if I wanted to refute this claim that is where I would start. Of course you would have to look at all the other teams draftees that went on to have solid careers with other teams and that if far beyond my ability or desire.

Originally Posted by: sschind 



I get what you're saying...I would say that it's not relevant how many Packer draftees go on to play elsewhere. This is one of the counters I've seen to the argument that Ted Thompson isn't an effective drafter. It's like this is the checkmate stone cold proof he can draft. Hardly. It's as ridiculous as thinking he's great in the first place to cite this as a reason.

Brandon Jackson went elsewhere, Colledge went elsewhere, Alex Green went elsewhere, Jason Spitz, AJ Hawk, heck, even Derek Sherrod...even guys who never played a down for us have gone other places. That doesn't mean they were good draft choices at all. When you factor what round they were taken in and how ineffective they were that factors as well especially the rounds the guys I listed were taken in...all within the first 3. All of them were not impact players. Yes, Hawk has a longevity record but he was largely ineffective especially in light of his expected return as a 5th overall.

The more you really get into this the more you'll see. I've looked and studied his moves quite a bit over the years. Something clearly not done by a lot of his supporters who just look at our regular season record.

As Texas implied...it's almost shameful how poor our total team is considering who QB's it. We should be totally dominant if he could draft very well and use FA effectively...two things he just doesn't do despite fans thinking he does one so well. If my report card was an aggregate of a grade between my drafting an my use of FA...I would get a decent grade like a C+ average with something close to a ZERO or incomplete bringing my grade down. If he doesn't use FA and isn't a total A with his drafting I'm not sure how he's a stellar GM over and above just looking at him as a drafter.


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Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


gbguy20
8 years ago

Two good GM picks Bigby; But IMHO neither is as good as TT:

Ozzie-Is a great drafter and provides a nice 10 year comparative data base and ON is the only guy who surpasses Ted Thompson on Comp Picks. Balt’s average draft position is slightly lower than Pack; but it is negligible [about ½ spot per yr] and in the last 10 years each team has picked in front of the other 5 times.

Each drafted two studs: Ngata/Yanda to CM3/AR

But, last year Mosely’s pro bowl ended a 5 year drought for Ozzie, not one player from drafts 2009-2013 made one. Overall Qzzie’s picks have had 6 different players named to PB 17 times; Ted Thompson 9 players; 20 times. Ozzie has drafted 30 different guys that became primary starters for 97 seasons and Ted Thompson 34 for 98. [All #’s from Profootball-reference].

All in all pretty close! Despite the #’s, which I believe give Ted Thompson as light edge, if it’s eventually decided ON is the best and Ted Thompson is right there; then by definition Ted Thompson is “STELLAR!”

I have only one criticism of ON’s drafting and that is he doesn’t devalue a player enough over character risks. He obviously assumes Harbaugh and the vets will keep them in line.

Schneider, admittedly from 2010-2014 has overall drafted better than TT. BUT: (1) he’s been drafting much higher than Ted Thompson on average; and (2) JS left GB right before 2010 draft. 99.9% of JS’s knowledge of 2010 draftable players came from the work of Ted Thompson and his scouting dept. In 2011, probably 60-75% of JS’s knowledge of players came from GB and maybe 20-30% in 2012. Once we adjust for draft position and JS scouting players w/o TT’s help, it is clear Ted Thompson is the better drafter; though in fairness the sample size is small and we really don’t fully know how some of these guys drafted in 2013-14 will turn out.

I dont think JS will last long term like ON and TT. I could not believe he stated [trying to justify that insane trade to NO] that he only has 16 players ranked w/ a 1st round grade. It is stupid to reveal details of a drafter’s most prized possession [His Board]; this and other run of the mouth behaviors show JS has some serious psychological issues. Moreover, he’s a degenerate gambler GM like Baalke.

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



lets not ignore this post
Zero2Cool
8 years ago
We have to ignore it because of all those dang abbreviation with initials. BRB, gotta get some Aspirin! haha
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