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Offline toronto_cheesehead  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, January 21, 2009 4:33:43 AM(UTC)
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" said: Go to Quoted Post
Harrell is a huge dude. He could be the NT if he stays healthy.


There was talk about him being a 34 DE in his draft year, so maybe we shed him back down to around 300 pounds and use him there. Maybe carrying less weight will help him out health wise too.
Offline djcubez  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, January 21, 2009 8:50:43 AM(UTC)
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" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
Harrell is a huge dude. He could be the NT if he stays healthy.


There was talk about him being a 34 DE in his draft year, so maybe we shed him back down to around 300 pounds and use him there. Maybe carrying less weight will help him out health wise too.

It's funny, the more and more I hear about this 3-4 defense the more I think that Mike McCarthy and Ted Thompson has this in planning before this year...
Offline Dulak  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, January 21, 2009 11:14:52 AM(UTC)
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So what do the 3 men down do in a 3-4? Basically stuff the run? shut the gaps down and take the runner out of the middle there?

So our OLBs either take out the runner on their side of the ball - take up screens and/or short passes and of course QB rush.

I bet well have kampman as a OLB (big but too small for a downline man in a 3-4). Perhaps they will use him as a OLB/DE kind of a mix depending on what our new DC calls for.

Then we just need another prime OLB/DE type of guy. Orankpo (ya spelling) or suggs or peppers. I woudl be extatic if we got 2 of the 3 above.
We got enough LBs atm to cover what we need.

Perhaps we can get away with not having to FA/draft a big NT and just use pickett or Colin. I always liked how jenkins played so hes a for sure downline man DE.

Id expect them to pick up 1-2 decent O guys also.
We seem to have enough WRs and TEs and enough RBs (Kuhn as a FB seemed to work well when they used him on occasion).

Dont know where else they would fill out the O besides the line. They would have to spend too much to get a RB better then grant/jackson
Offline Since69  
#14 Posted : Thursday, January 22, 2009 4:35:02 PM(UTC)
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" said: Go to Quoted Post

It's funny, the more and more I hear about this 3-4 defense the more I think that Mike McCarthy and Ted Thompson has this in planning before this year...


I kinda get the same feeling. Remember how confused we were when we cut Tracy White? We did it so we could move Danny Lansanah to the active roster to keep the Tuna from stealing him for Miami. We all know how much Tuna loves the 3-4...

Lansanah's got the right size (6-1, 250-ish) for a pass-rush LB. And good speed, if I remember the preseason correctly...
Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#15 Posted : Thursday, January 22, 2009 5:00:46 PM(UTC)
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How dare you guys make these base allegations of competence and foresight when it's transparently obvious to everyone Mike McCarthy and Ted Thompson haven't the faintest clue what they're doing? :D
Online PackFanWithTwins  
#16 Posted : Friday, January 23, 2009 12:24:44 PM(UTC)
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Still seems everyone thinks that Dline in the 3-4 has to be a bunch of hogs. When the truth is, they don't. Many running the 3-4 are smaller than the theoretical 340 lb beast at NT with big DE's. Players ability is more important than size. lining up 3-300 lbers that are strong and quick pose more of a difficulty for the O than a 340 that is just there to be a stump.
Offline Pack93z  
#17 Posted : Friday, January 23, 2009 1:12:42 PM(UTC)
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" said: Go to Quoted Post
Still seems everyone thinks that Dline in the 3-4 has to be a bunch of hogs. When the truth is, they don't. Many running the 3-4 are smaller than the theoretical 340 lb beast at NT with big DE's. Players ability is more important than size. lining up 3-300 lbers that are strong and quick pose more of a difficulty for the O than a 340 that is just there to be a stump.


Agreed, but when I say the man in the middle has to be a beast, I mean that he has got to have the proper attitude and demeanor to play the position.. I remember when Jurko used to piss and moan about getting chipped and chopped in two directions in the two gap 4-3 we played in the early 90's.. that is nothing compared to lining up straight over the center and having the hits come from either side.. takes a "beast" of a man to anchor the nose.

Need to have a certain amount of pissedoffness to play it.. and take pride in just doing your job. The media and stats aren't going to tell the real story.. team first attitude.

And if the guy isn't going to be a space eater and chew up blocks, you better have a couple of backers in the middle that can shed blocks and plug.. we seem to be short in that area currently. I think Hawk is still waiting for the back to get to him, that is when he isn't blocked. :lol:
Online PackFanWithTwins  
#18 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 12:49:22 AM(UTC)
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" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
Still seems everyone thinks that Dline in the 3-4 has to be a bunch of hogs. When the truth is, they don't. Many running the 3-4 are smaller than the theoretical 340 lb beast at NT with big DE's. Players ability is more important than size. lining up 3-300 lbers that are strong and quick pose more of a difficulty for the O than a 340 that is just there to be a stump.


Agreed, but when I say the man in the middle has to be a beast, I mean that he has got to have the proper attitude and demeanor to play the position.. I remember when Jurko used to piss and moan about getting chipped and chopped in two directions in the two gap 4-3 we played in the early 90's.. that is nothing compared to lining up straight over the center and having the hits come from either side.. takes a "beast" of a man to anchor the nose.

Need to have a certain amount of pissedoffness to play it.. and take pride in just doing your job. The media and stats aren't going to tell the real story.. team first attitude.

And if the guy isn't going to be a space eater and chew up blocks, you better have a couple of backers in the middle that can shed blocks and plug.. we seem to be short in that area currently. I think Hawk is still waiting for the back to get to him, that is when he isn't blocked. :lol:


Also remember that Jurko was the NT before switching to the 4-3 also. That is why I think Kampman could be a force at DE in the 3-4 because of his attitude and work ethic. Jenkins will be a great DE also, and getting Harrell to be healthy for a year, could be the beast at NT.

Also if you watch NT does not always line up over center. Ngata was lining up at DE for Baltimore a lot. Pulling the double to 1 side making the opposite side have to deal with two DEs and the blitzing LBer.
Offline all_about_da_packers  
#19 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 4:11:50 AM(UTC)
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" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
Harrell is a huge dude. He could be the NT if he stays healthy.


There was talk about him being a 34 DE in his draft year, so maybe we shed him back down to around 300 pounds and use him there. Maybe carrying less weight will help him out health wise too.



Harrell, although listed at 320, might be closer to 310.

His "normal" playing weight in college was 310, and in his rookie year the Packers had him bulk upto 320.

At the end of the year, Harrell said he wasn't comfortable at 320, that he felt sluggish and uncomfortable at that playing weight.

Robert Nunn, then DT coach, also said at the end of Harrell's rookie year that the Packers were going to seriously consider having Harrell slim back down to 310, where he feels much more mobile and comfortable.

I'm not sure if that actually happened, it was reported Harrell was out of shape in the off-season, but I think he's much more closer to a 3-4 DE than a 3-4 NT.
Offline all_about_da_packers  
#20 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 5:24:46 AM(UTC)
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" said: Go to Quoted Post
[size=24][/size]Do we have that guy? Pickett is the obvious choice, but what about Colin Cole? Justin Harrell? Johnny Jolly? Physically, we have several players who could fit the bill:

Code:

Pickett            6-2     330
Cole               6-1     330
Jolly              6-3     320
Harrell            6-4     320
Bledsoe (PS)       6-3     329



I've read from a couple of sources now that Pickett, while listed at 320, is actually in the 340-350 range.

I'm going to come out and say now that our two main NTs for next year are already on the roster. Pickett is one, and I believe Jolly is the other. I believe he has the body type of NT (clearly) but more importantly listing Jolly at 320 is being generous, too, IMO.

We'll need another NT body type, but I think can't see the Packers keeping more than 3 NTs next year. Two of which, IMO, are already on the roster. I'd lean towards the 3rd NT being a vet FA pick-up to help ease the transition. If we draft Raji, I think he'll be more of a 3-4 DE, at least in the early stages.
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