uffda udfa
7 years ago
Dodd. Agreed. However, one of the things fans do is hang on those words from Mike McCarthy and Aaron Rodgers as gospel. I believe many fans form their opinions on quotes. I form them on what I see from a player. Back in the day, I saw Freeman at TC and thought he was going to be very good. He was so smooth. He turned out to be great. No quotes needed. Just what I witnessed.

That's how to gauge players. B does it but I'm amazed the different conclusions we draw.

Nobody should think Davante is bad based off what has been said about him. Just look for yourself. What did you see? I see a guy who is run of the mill. That's what I saw in beginning and he's gotten worse from there.
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Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


DoddPower
7 years ago

Dodd. Agreed. However, one of the things fans do is hang on those words from Mike McCarthy and Aaron Rodgers as gospel. I believe many fans form their opinions on quotes. I form them on what I see from a player. Back in the day, I saw Freeman at TC and thought he was going to be very good. He was so smooth. He turned out to be great. No quotes needed. Just what I witnessed.

That's how to gauge players. B does it but I'm amazed the different conclusions we draw.

Nobody should think Davante is bad based off what has been said about him. Just look for yourself. What did you see? I see a guy who is run of the mill. That's what I saw in beginning and he's gotten worse from there.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



I mostly use the "eye test" myself. Not a big stats guy, if for no other reason I don't have enough time to pour through numbers endlessly. More important things to do. My eyes tells me that Adam's has potential, but at this point he isn't very good. He will need to improve substantially to contribute anything meaningful to the Packers.

I think Richard Rodgers is as bad as Adam's or possibly even worse, at least as a receiver. Richard Roger's is the definition of average.
Zero2Cool
7 years ago

I think Richard Rodgers is as bad as Adam's or possibly even worse, at least as a receiver. Richard Roger's is the definition of average.

Originally Posted by: DoddPower 



If all the Receivers and Tight Ends were average, that would be a lot of TD's!!!

You figure 5 WR and 3 TE ... that's 64 passing touchdowns just by being average! GIVE US THE RING!!!
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uffda udfa
7 years ago

I mostly use the "eye test" myself. Not a big stats guy, if for no other reason I don't have enough time to pour through numbers endlessly. More important things to do. My eyes tells me that Adam's has potential, but at this point he isn't very good. He will need to improve substantially to contribute anything meaningful to the Packers.

I think Richard Rodgers is as bad as Adam's or possibly even worse, at least as a receiver. Richard Roger's is the definition of average.

Originally Posted by: DoddPower 



We're not far apart in how we see things. I think Rodgers is a good 3rd TE, an okay/borderline 2nd TE, and a dreadful #1 TE. Rodgers and Adams from same draft... a bad bad draft up high as far as skill positions were concerned. You don't draft players that high to get that little from them. A guy with Adams and Rodgers prowess should be found in the UDFA pool, not in the first 3 rounds of a draft. Those are two high picks on offense that have given us very very little and look to give us that or less forward.

Abby and Janis have provided much more as a 5th and 7th.

EDIT: Just wanted to add this so that some can see I haven't been making up PFF's grading of Adams. This from Total Packers on the subject:

Pro Football Focus ranked him 181st among 182 wide receivers evaluated while numberFire.com claimed that only 17 wideouts averaged 11 or fewer yards per-reception and a 50-percent (or worse) catch rate on a minimum of 60 targets in any one season.

Think on that...181st out of 182 WR's with Aaron Rodgers as his QB and getting the opportunities he received. If you took the amount of teams (32) times 4 WR's per team you only get 128 WR's. Multiply it by 5 and you get 160 WR's... so, in essence, you could say Davante Adams was WORSE than the top 5 WR's for ALL NFL teams and he was our top option. Wow. That is some perspective right there. BTW, that's what you get when you quote TOTAL PACKERS...a joke site! Davante was 118 out of 119. So, he's only really as bad as almost every team's in the league's 4th WR. Arrow up!

Here's one PFF blurb on him:

PFF grade (position rank): -11.1 (118th)
2015 salary cap hit: $893,955

Adams had an opportunity to seize Green Bay’s No. 2 receiver slot after Jordy Nelson was lost for the year with a torn ACL. But the second-year Fresno State product squandered that chance, and was in fact ranked as the second-worst WR in the league by PFF among guys who played at least 25 percent of their team’s snaps.

Adams’ 10 drops were tied for sixth-most in the league. Even when he did catch the ball, he couldn’t do much with it — his average of 9.7 yards per reception ranked in the bottom 10th percentile among qualified wideouts.
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Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


sschind
7 years ago

We're not far apart in how we see things. I think Rodgers is a good 3rd TE, an okay/borderline 2nd TE, and a dreadful #1 TE. Rodgers and Adams from same draft... a bad bad draft up high as far as skill positions were concerned. You don't draft players that high to get that little from them. A guy with Adams and Rodgers prowess should be found in the UDFA pool, not in the first 3 rounds of a draft. Those are two high picks on offense that have given us very very little and look to give us that or less forward.

Abby and Janis have provided much more as a 5th and 7th.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



yup, 13 catches for 206 yards and no TDs is so much more than 166 catches 1664 yards and 14 TDs

I was prepared to let your assessment of Adams and Rodgers go because we are all entitled to our opinions but when you said Janis and Abby have given us more I couldn't let that go.
DarkaneRules
7 years ago
At this point, I'm not backing Davante to make the team this year. I think something in between the ears is causing a lack in consistency and I'd rather see his spot taken by someone with new potential...
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
uffda udfa
7 years ago

yup, 13 catches for 206 yards and no TDs is so much more than 166 catches 1664 yards and 14 TDs

I was prepared to let your assessment of Adams and Rodgers go because we are all entitled to our opinions but when you said Janis and Abby have given us more I couldn't let that go.

Originally Posted by: sschind 



Misinterpreted. I meant what they have to offer and what they would give being given the shot Davante had. Of course, I wasn't referring to stats. Why you would think that really is a condemning view of my intelligence.

Abby and Janis bring identifiable skills to the table. Davante does not and it should be reversed given draft status.

How can we trot 17 out there in Jax? I would feel so much better seeing Abby and Janis over him.
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Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


jlyons043
7 years ago
Saw this on reddit today. It's receivers drafted in 2014 with their stats ordered by draft position.
 Screenshot (28).png You have insufficient rights to see the content. Screenshot (29).png You have insufficient rights to see the content.
Barfarn
7 years ago



And as for your analysis...

Originally Posted by: mi_keys 



Now we can get somewhere😁

If that was supposed to be an out route you should be criticizing Adams for turning the wrong direction (in).

Originally Posted by: mi_keys 



The CB's momentum was away from the line of scrimmage, not towards.

Originally Posted by: mi_keys 



It is the way the route is designed, pure MM/Philbin genius! The most dangerous standard throw is the out, because the ball travels such a long way and unlike most routes the angle with which the ball travels to the intended point of reception gives the CB [with inside position] the shortest path to the ball if he undercuts the throw. And the WR is powerless to stop it or recover for the tackle. This is why so many pick 6s come on outs. Traditionally on an out the WR makes his initial move "IN" getting the CB to turn his hips giving the WR separation as he breaks outside. Ya see, Adams did NOT turn the wrong way.

Way too often a CB can study film and put himself in position for the pic 6 by ignoring the WR's IN-move, so MM/Philbin added a wrinkle to the IN-move. The WR on the in-move makes contact with the CB, STOPPING ANY MOMENTUM THE CB might have to undercut the throw. All Rodgers needs to is read the WR and CB at the same level near the sticks and, zing, he releases the ball in advance of the In-Move.


Football Outsiders said:
Adams failed to make wide-open receptions or contested catches on five occasions in this game. This isn't one of those plays... When he gets to the top of his route, Adams is blanketed in coverage.

Rather odd description of an open receiver.

Originally Posted by: mi_keys 



The author says Adams failed to make 5 wide-open...receptions; he's insinuating that these were all Adams' fault, but IT IS NOT TRUE. If it were he's have shown the videos of all 5 plays. And the play being discussed is not one of these 5!

Are you the author of the Article posing as mi-keys? 😊 The Author said he was blanketed at the top of the route. When we speak of the "top of the route" often this is not where the reception is supposed to be made!!!!!! And in context of the article this is a certainty. He said Adams did not fight hard enough to get open forcing Rodgers to throw him open or into a tight window. When we speak of a "window" that is a word commensurate with being open. Large or wide window means the receiver is open by a substantial amount; a tight, narrow or small window means the WR is OPEN by a small degree.

Since the difference between Rodgers and Sanchez is the size of the window required for a successful throw; the author felt he had to explain away why Rodgers didn't complete the pass if Adams was open. And he didn't have to do this because Rodgers threw a perfect pass, it is just that Adams did not get to the spot on time.


The fact Adams is blanketed would suggest otherwise.

Originally Posted by: mi_keys 



Again he was blanketed at THE TOP OF THE ROUTE; exactly as it is designed. If a WR is doing exactly what he is supposed to do is it not the height of stupidity to criticize him for it? Everybody talks about "separation separation" they dont understand the genius of a play like this. Only SOME routes call for "separation;" this route gets separation by closing the gap between the WR and CB to zero. It's genius! The chance for an INT on such a dangerous route goes to zero and it is impossible for the CB to cover the WR who gets CB on right hip and breaks left after the ball is released.

Which Adams failed to do.

Originally Posted by: mi_keys 



If the exceedingly minimal contact that occurred at the top of the route was pass interference, then every passing play in the NFL is pass interference.

Originally Posted by: mi_keys 



If you think a NFL CB grabbing your chest pad is "exceedingly minimal contact" then you simply need to educate yourself or you really are the dishonest writer of he Article. Sometimes a play failing is because the other team did something special. This is one of those times. Adams was solid, when spectacular [in disengaging from CB who had his chest pad] was required to make the play successful. If this was done to Abby or Allen, that CB will still be holding on to them.



Adams was abysmal last year. Rodgers wasn't up to par. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

Going forward, I hope Adams plays much more like his playoff game against Dallas than anything he produced last year.

Originally Posted by: mi_keys 



The last 10 games, the games that Adams saw most of his missed targets, Rodgers was Abysmal. All the WR saw significant drops in their catch rates. They didn't all turn to suck, the common denominator was Rodgers. And obviously, if Adams was an average or above average receiver, Rodgers would have been less abysmal.

It's too small of a sample size to have much meaning;but I think the magnitude of the "improvement" is significant. Rodgers played better in playoffs and Adams had a 100% catch rate [4 for 4, 48 yards, 1 td]. Did Adams improve that much? Nope, ya still see the imperfections Steve spoke about. It is just that Rodgers was so good on those throws Adams' faults did not amount to sabotage of the plays and Adams' "analytics" were stellar.

Adams will improve in 2016, If our MVP QB comes back his stats will make him look alot better than he is and I'll probably be slamming a dumbass writer who's is trying to put Adams in the HOF.

PS: did ya see Adams' drop in SF game? It was Rodgers fault! 😕 😕 😕 😕
mi_keys
7 years ago

Now we can get somewhere😁 Traditionally on an out the WR makes his initial move "IN" getting the CB to turn his hips giving the WR separation as he breaks outside. Ya see, Adams did NOT turn the wrong way.

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 









You are right. He didn't turn the wrong way. Because he wasn't running an out route. That was my point.
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