beast
  • beast
  • Select Member Topic Starter
7 years ago

Whatever scheme we need somebody better than Capers to call it. Other teams have injuries on defense and don't have consistently embarrassing performances like this team does. Dom does absolutely shit to cover for weaknesses. He just lets them get exposed over and over again while sticking to the plan regardless of how the game is working out.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



I completely disagree. Other teams have their top 5 CBs injured? ... Rollins and Gunter are on the field but they're clearly limping early in games... they're not healthy.

Dom has made a lot of change attempts... but for every defense change, there is an offense change and depending on the other teams weapons... you need to adjust and Capers has.

The Packers normally play man to man with a single deep safety. When Shields got injured, he tried to continue that... but no one could step up to fill the #1 CB role... so Capers adjusted the Safeties to help... and the Packers found GREAT success with Gunter when they played cover 2 defense with two Safeties over the top.

The problem with cover 2 defenses, is that Safeties are much further back and can't help nearly as quickly against the run or with people in the short middle (especially if the team has a talented RB or TE)... and you notice... the Packers have struggled against teams with good RBs and TEs. And Capers has tried to be creative... against the Cowboys, he tried to get all the OLBers on the field at once with Matthews, Perry, Perry, etc.

Against the Redskins, the Packers were mostly playing a simple conservative scheme most of the game... and the CBs consistently failed to execute ... losing the WR or TE with juke moves at the line... consistently beating the CBs to the inside, over and over again. How hard it to realize, you need to stop letting you man take the inside? Al Harris made a career out of forcing guys to the outside. I don't know how any play caller, can fix that... other than tell the player to move to the inside and off of the man... but that then gives a clear shot to the outside and the CBs is playing catch up.

But anyways, Capers should of stuck with the conservative scheme... but he finally got tired of seeing the same plan fail... so he got more aggressive and what happen?... instead of simply getting burned to the inside... the CBs got completely burned deep... because the Safeties were no longer deep.


When the players can't execute, there is only so much a play caller can do.
I'm not saying Capers hasn't failed in other ways... like maybe coaching up his coaches or coaching up the players... but his play calling hasn't been bad... it's the lack of execution by the players on the field. If they're not executing, any play you call is going to look bad... and you're just picking the best of the bad... which is still ugly.
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steveishere
7 years ago
Make all the excuses you want. Every defense is going to have bad days but this defenses bad days are inexcusably bad. The fact that the bad days happen so often is also terrible. Look at Chicago, they don't have a very talented team to begin with and have a starter and FA aquisition at CB on IR, along with 3 other CB listed on the injury report this week (1 didn't play). A starting OLB on IR and their 1st round pick OLB out for this weeks game and a starting ILB suspended. Did they get obliterated like they were playing the 2011 packers against mediocre Tennessee today... no they did not. We haven't even gotten to how completely soft the defense is in any critical situation. It's week 12 and every game is littered with sloppy uninspired play on that side of the ball. Communication problems late in the year every single year. If we do make "adjustments" they don't work, if something we're doing is working opponents easily counter it.

I wouldn't mind seeing a struggling defense in light of the injury issues but the way other teams march up and down the field with no resistance while players are out there looking like walking dead going through the motions, the level of bad on our defense is TOO bad even accounting for the situation... Dom doesn't have some history here of terrific coaching so I'm not all about giving him more excuses.

Besides Matthews and Ryan for a couple games each our entire front 7 has been pretty healthy, both starting safeties healthy. It wasn't embarrassing but the D was not even impressive against Jacksonville with everyone healthy and even less so if you don't give them a pass for all the wide open receivers Bortles missed.
beast
  • beast
  • Select Member Topic Starter
7 years ago

Make all the excuses you want.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 


You're just randomly calling anything that disagrees with your opinion an excuses...

You called out the play calling and non-adjustments. I simply pointed out that you are mistaken. That's not an excuse... it's what happening on the field. Adjustments were attempted, and no matter what they tried, the players couldn't execute it. The only thing I've thought of that wasn't tried (and maybe reasonable)... is maybe using Haha as a CB... like they did against Gronk. But then you'd lose him on the back end, and one of the CBs would be benched for an undrafted rookie Safety (and maybe Evans because Brice was already in the game).

I've also have wondered about Janis at deep FS... but that's probably not reasonable, and as some have pointed out, Janis has been more mistake prone this seasons (or it has seemed). Also I added other ways that Capers might of failed. It's not excuses... it's reality... Capers has many weakness, I just don't believe what you listed was correctly one of them.

I'm not saying Capers hasn't failed in other ways... like maybe coaching up his coaches or coaching up the players

Originally Posted by: beast 



UserPostedImage
steveishere
7 years ago

You're just randomly calling anything that disagrees with your opinion an excuses...

You called out the play calling and non-adjustments. I simply pointed out that you are mistaken. That's not an excuse... it's what happening on the field. Adjustments were attempted, and no matter what they tried, the players couldn't execute it. The only thing I've thought of that wasn't tried (and maybe reasonable)... is maybe using Haha as a CB... like they did against Gronk. But then you'd lose him on the back end, and one of the CBs would be benched for an undrafted rookie Safety (and maybe Evans because Brice was already in the game).

I've also have wondered about Janis at deep FS... but that's probably not reasonable, and as some have pointed out, Janis has been more mistake prone this seasons (or it has seemed). Also I added other ways that Capers might of failed. It's not excuses... it's reality... Capers has many weakness, I just don't believe what you listed was correctly one of them.


Originally Posted by: beast 



"The players can't execute right" is an excuse for a coach maybe over a couple game sample or even a season. When players have communication and execution issues over several seasons it has to fall on the coach at some point. Dom's scheme is either too complicated for many players to consistently get right or he's not able to teach it well enough. Our defense only works well when it's stacked with talent at each level and I don't think that's a good thing in a league where injuries are so common. When we have a weakness it gets destroyed and Dom never has an answer to it. That's just the truth. Maybe he does try different things when somethings not working but rarely does whatever he tries work out. There are a lot of teams with bad CBs out there that don't manage to look as bad as our defense does even 1 game and we've been embarrassed several times this year.

My point is that I think it's past time for a coaching change on that side of the ball regardless of whatever reasons people can come up with for an excuse. I don't think Dom has earned the benefit of the doubt here. Every team is going to face talent related adversity that coaching is going to have to somewhat cover for. I think it would be hard to claim our defense could be much worse regardless of who is coaching so what we do know is Dom isn't good enough to coach the team out of it's issues. My worry is McCarthy is going to use the injuries as an excuse to not have to fire Capers.
nerdmann
7 years ago

You're just randomly calling anything that disagrees with your opinion an excuses...

You called out the play calling and non-adjustments. I simply pointed out that you are mistaken. That's not an excuse... it's what happening on the field. Adjustments were attempted, and no matter what they tried, the players couldn't execute it. The only thing I've thought of that wasn't tried (and maybe reasonable)... is maybe using Haha as a CB... like they did against Gronk. But then you'd lose him on the back end, and one of the CBs would be benched for an undrafted rookie Safety (and maybe Evans because Brice was already in the game).

I've also have wondered about Janis at deep FS... but that's probably not reasonable, and as some have pointed out, Janis has been more mistake prone this seasons (or it has seemed). Also I added other ways that Capers might of failed. It's not excuses... it's reality... Capers has many weakness, I just don't believe what you listed was correctly one of them.


Originally Posted by: beast 



I'd sooner send Janis after the QB from the OLB spot than I would play him at S.

ā€œWinning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a whileā€¦you do them right all the time.ā€
Porforis
7 years ago

"The players can't execute right" is an excuse for a coach maybe over a couple game sample or even a season. When players have communication and execution issues over several seasons it has to fall on the coach at some point. Dom's scheme is either too complicated for many players to consistently get right or he's not able to teach it well enough. Our defense only works well when it's stacked with talent at each level and I don't think that's a good thing in a league where injuries are so common. When we have a weakness it gets destroyed and Dom never has an answer to it. That's just the truth. Maybe he does try different things when somethings not working but rarely does whatever he tries work out. There are a lot of teams with bad CBs out there that don't manage to look as bad as our defense does even 1 game and we've been embarrassed several times this year.

My point is that I think it's past time for a coaching change on that side of the ball regardless of whatever reasons people can come up with for an excuse. I don't think Dom has earned the benefit of the doubt here. Every team is going to face talent related adversity that coaching is going to have to somewhat cover for. I think it would be hard to claim our defense could be much worse regardless of who is coaching so what we do know is Dom isn't good enough to coach the team out of it's issues. My worry is McCarthy is going to use the injuries as an excuse to not have to fire Capers.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



I'm open to moving on from Capers after this season for sure, but I really need to question how many teams' defenses are functional with their top 3 CBs out and top 5 hurt. As a legitimate question - Is there any precedent for this? My point being, I'm not opposed to trying something new but I question how much of a difference any defensive coordinator could have made this season.

I also ask us all to consider that we're more likely to think the Packers' defense screws up more than other teams' defenses when we're not putting #5 guys against #2 guys, simply because we watch every single game the Packers play. If the Packers defense blows 1-2 big plays a game, that sticks out in our mind. When Washington left Cobb I believe completely and utterly wide open for the easiest touchdown I've seen in a while, we don't think "Wow, the Redskins have serious communication issues". Not to deny the Packers don't have a legitimate problem, just try to take everything in its proper context.
Pack93z
7 years ago
With our linebacking corp decimated by injury... I would have thought Dom would have figured ways to get our depth at Dline in the rotation to help offset the thin LB spots.

If I am building a defense, I stay with a 3-4 base... just to much versitility with the set that a 4-3 does not give you. At times our alignment makes so little sense, 2 or single man fronts are rolled out there way to often. That and we don't use presnap movement very effectively to force protection shifts and cause confusion...
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
DarkaneRules
7 years ago
I freaking love the 3-4. It's just my kind of defense. That said, we've gotten out asses kicked by injuries and need more talent up-front. We can make this work though.
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
steveishere
7 years ago
I don't think we are even close to a 3-4 base though. We play Nickle when the other team has 2 in line TE and a FB. We play Nickle when the other team has 3 TE inside the red zone. We are a 2-4 base defense
buckeyepackfan
7 years ago
THE BEAT GOES ON.
šŸ˜ šŸ˜

There will not be any changes until after the season.

Watch other games, no team is consistently shutting down their opponents.

THE NFL WANTS SCORING!!!!!!

Tough to be a defensive player these days.

I'll say it every day, stop over analyzing and enjoy the game.
I was addicted to The Hokey Pokey, but I turned myself around!
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