uffda udfa
7 years ago
I would say Jordy Nelson is vastly superior in being able to contort his body to make a catch.

Davante is able to catch disappearing balls. The ones Rodgers throws that leave you wondering what happened for a second because there is no separation. Those catches in traffic are a group wide trait. Even high times Geronimo has made those kind of catches.

I used to ask all the time what is a or the trait Davante possesses that makes him desirable? I'm still not sure what that is. Perhaps, his strength? Barfarn seemed to indicate it was body control which Z has pointed to or the ability to set up the DB to get by him. I don't see all 22 so not sure if that's his calling card or not.

Ultimately, his perception is benefited greatly by literally being the worst WR in the NFL last season. Kind of the same reason we think we have good ILBs now... They've been so terrible that average looks good in comparison.


UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


Barfarn
7 years ago

You said in two separate posts:
You even posted an explanation for why speed would be negatively correlated:

Why should I care about the SXCH ratings?

Originally Posted by: mi_keys 



I'll try one more time. I’ll teach you something here!

The argument: Speed is unequivocally a positive trait for WR. But amongst top 10 WRs as rated by Sports Exchange; the fastest WRs are not as good as the slowest. Hence, speed as a trait is given too much importance when rating WR prospects.

Your argument cant be directly addressed because it is replete with every logic error known to man several times over.

The Sports Exchange is the best predictor of draft position and they use the best measure of 40 time [not necessarily the fastest or electronic]. If you disagree, educate yourself, look at the top 10 WRs, they rarely miss, if they do it’s not by so much and sometimes they’re right when they “missed.”

Why'd I use the sample I did? Because top 10 over 6 years is much better than using top 60 one year or WRs rated 40-50 over 6 years. You want a bigger sample size...the world is your effing oyster.

If you cant see that the faster guys are not as good as slower guys, you just need to educate yourself, develop your own criteria. The football gods helps those that help themselves.

A Barfarn teaching moment: When testing to see if a coin is weighted is flips enough? If you say no, YOU ARE WRONG! I’ll show you later.

Are 20 flips of coin enough to tell if a coin is weighted? The correct answer is: IT DEPENDS ON THE RESULT!!!! If the coin lands on, EG, heads 11 times out of 20; this is evidence that the coin is weighed to heads. It is very weak evidence; and more flips of the coin must be made to strengthen the evidence; yet, to say this is “nothing” is not scholarly. But, one who asserts the coin is weighted to heads because it landed on head 19 or 20 times out of 20; has very strong evidence to support his hypothesis.

Now back to the 2 flips! If one flips the coin twice and it lands on its edge; that is sufficient data to determine that coins is weighted to land on its edge because the actual result deviates so drastically from the expected result.

By demonstrating the top 3 slowEST are better than the top 3 fastEST [this is significant, often .2, sometimes .3, seconds] of the sample size of 60 WRs provided statistically significant results to establish the forego hypotheses that speed is overrated.


I used to ask all the time what is a or the trait Davante possesses that makes him desirable? I'm still not sure what that is. Perhaps, his strength? Barfarn seemed to indicate it was body control which Z has pointed to or the ability to set up the DB to get by him. I don't see all 22 so not sure if that's his calling card or not.
Ultimately, his perception is benefited greatly by literally being the worst WR in the NFL last season.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 




Think Nerd correctly said Body control. I speak of his strong route running and separation abilities.

He was not the worst receiver last year; he was below average. He is not a pro bowl receiver this year, he simply took the next naturally progressing 3rd year step in reading and reacting to the D. If he keeps progressing he’ll be unstoppable.

You don't need all 22; 90% of his moves are in the screen.
mi_keys
7 years ago

I'll try one more time. I’ll teach you something here!

The argument: Speed is unequivocally a positive trait for WR.

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



That me be what you actually believe but that isn't what you said and that isn't what I responded to.

But amongst top 10 WRs as rated by Sports Exchange; the fastest WRs are not as good as the slowest. Hence, speed as a trait is given too much importance when rating WR prospects.

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



Are they not? You never showed they were not as good. You never addressed the mediocre to shit players in the slowest list that I mentioned nor did you address the elite players in the fastest list. Both lists had quite a range of players.

Your argument cant be directly addressed because it is replete with every logic error known to man several times over.

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



I'd love to hear you cite them.

The Sports Exchange is the best predictor of draft position and they use the best measure of 40 time [not necessarily the fastest or electronic].

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



As measured by whom and compared to whom?

If you disagree, educate yourself, look at the top 10 WRs, they rarely miss, if they do it’s not by so much and sometimes they’re right when they “missed.”

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



Already told you I didn't know who they are so why would I have an opinion on how right or wrong they are?

Why'd I use the sample I did? Because top 10 over 6 years is much better than using top 60 one year or WRs rated 40-50 over 6 years. You want a bigger sample size...the world is your effing oyster.

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



Do you understand the problems with non-random sampling? Taking only the top 10 is not a representative sample of the class of receivers as a whole. If you don't understand the problems of sampling bias or non-random sampling, you don't understand basic statistics.

If you cant see that the faster guys are not as good as slower guys, you just need to educate yourself, develop your own criteria. The football gods helps those that help themselves.

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



I listed several examples in which the receivers of the fastest group were among the best in the league or are the best in the league. I listed several examples in which the receivers in the slowest group were complete no-names. Both sets were a mixed bag. But you never addressed those examples.

A Barfarn teaching moment: When testing to see if a coin is weighted is flips enough? If you say no, YOU ARE WRONG! I’ll show you later.

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



A loosely related analogy that doesn't prove your point? Oh boy, I can't wait!

Are 20 flips of coin enough to tell if a coin is weighted? The correct answer is: IT DEPENDS ON THE RESULT!!!! If the coin lands on, EG, heads 11 times out of 20; this is evidence that the coin is weighed to heads. It is very weak evidence; and more flips of the coin must be made to strengthen the evidence; yet, to say this is “nothing” is not scholarly. But, one who asserts the coin is weighted to heads because it landed on head 19 or 20 times out of 20; has very strong evidence to support his hypothesis.

Now back to the 2 flips! If one flips the coin twice and it lands on its edge; that is sufficient data to determine that coins is weighted to land on its edge because the actual result deviates so drastically from the expected result.

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



And you think the small, non-random sample you pulled in which you did no demonstrate one set was better than the other represents two coin flips both landing on their edge? Sure thing, mate.

By demonstrating the top 3 slowEST are better than the top 3 fastEST [this is significant, often .2, sometimes .3, seconds] of the sample size of 60 WRs provided statistically significant results to establish the forego hypotheses that speed is overrated.

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



You never demonstrated clearly that the 3 slowEST are better than the 3 fastEST. You haven't addressed the issue of non-random sampling. You can dismiss the concerns with sampling size all you want, it doesn't make them any less valid. Aside from an answer about the Sports Xchange, you addressed just about none of the concerns with your methodology.
Born and bred a cheesehead
uffda udfa
7 years ago
I didn't quote Barfarn saying Davante wasn't the worst WR last year. I posted this many times last off season. It always depends on what stat measure you use but he was 2nd to last in a rating that iirc is similar to QB ratings. Considering Davante wasn't our 4th or 5th WR last year I can confidently say he was the worst starting WR in the NFL which is not what I previously stated. However, when you're second to dead last I took the liberty of calling him the worst based on him being our #1.
UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


Zero2Cool
7 years ago
Special.


UserPostedImage
uffda udfa
7 years ago
Check who #31 is for Dallas and the kind of season he had. He makes Demetri Goodson look like Deion Sanders.
UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


steveishere
7 years ago
Davante has gotten really good this year at beating press and overcoming physical play by DBs near the line which is important for his development because he'll never be a burner. Don't think he'll ever be what prime Jordy was for us but he's definitely going to be responsible for some big plays for our offense.
Porforis
7 years ago

Davante has gotten really good this year at beating press and overcoming physical play by DBs near the line which is important for his development because he'll never be a burner. Don't think he'll ever be what prime Jordy was for us but he's definitely going to be responsible for some big plays for our offense.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



So hopefully a James Jones?
Fan Shout
dfosterf (13h) : The only problem with that is he isn't a guard either.
dfosterf (14h) : Put him at right guard. That is where he will be coached. That is where he will compete. He is not even allowed to look at the LT playbook.
dfosterf (18-Apr) : Kidding aside, I hope the best for him.
dfosterf (18-Apr) : Went to a Titans board. One comment there. Not very long. I quote: "LOL" They don't sound overly upset about our aquisition.
beast (18-Apr) : OT Dillard has been absolutely horrible... like OG Newman levels
dfosterf (18-Apr) : Suit him up and have him stand in front of the big board as a draft day cautionary tale.
Zero2Cool (18-Apr) : Packers sign T Andre Dillard.
Mucky Tundra (18-Apr) : Adds most of the information this time of year comes from agents.
Mucky Tundra (18-Apr) : @RealAlexBarth Bill Belichick says accurate draft information doesn't leak from teams until about 12 hours before the draft. Adds most of th
Mucky Tundra (18-Apr) : I am very happy that for moment, Jordan Love seems like a normal human being
Zero2Cool (17-Apr) : Belichick * whatever
Zero2Cool (17-Apr) : "There's a lot of depth at Offensive Tackle and Wide Receiver." Bill Bellichick
Zero2Cool (17-Apr) : Thanks! I can't believe it's over haha
Martha Careful (16-Apr) : Congratulations
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Boom. Student Loan. $0.00. Only took about 20 years.
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : Packers DT Kenny Clark: New defensive coordinator Jeff Hafley will 'allow us to be way more disruptive'
Zero2Cool (12-Apr) : Saints have agreed to terms on a contract with former Packers wide receiver Equanimeous St. Brown.
beast (12-Apr) : No, but of it's for legislation, then half of the country will find it evil, not good, whatever it says....
Mucky Tundra (12-Apr) : Draft is still 2 weeks away. UGH
dhazer (11-Apr) : Does anyone know of a good AI generator to create letters of Support for legislation?
Zero2Cool (11-Apr) : Gordon "Red" Batty retires as equipment manager
Zero2Cool (10-Apr) : Sounds like that's pretty certain now.
Zero2Cool (10-Apr) : Packers "at" Eagles in Brazil. Week One
dfosterf (10-Apr) : Va' Fazer As Malas Va' !
Zero2Cool (9-Apr) : Mark Murphy tipping us off?
Zero2Cool (9-Apr) : “We’re either the first- or second-most popular team in Brazil.”
Zero2Cool (9-Apr) : Christian Watson got married. Wife better be careful with those hamstrings!! 😂😂
dfosterf (9-Apr) : Those poor bastards
Zero2Cool (8-Apr) : Falcons have signed former Packers CB Kevin King, who has been out of football since 2021.
dfosterf (8-Apr) : Collectively, we need to spend more time in what we have, when analyzing ostendible needs and historical proclivities
dfosterf (8-Apr) : I say he is better than so many of these draft picks
dfosterf (8-Apr) : Question of the week for me: Has anyone besides me done any deep dive into the potential of Alex McGough, our 3rd string qb?
Zero2Cool (8-Apr) : Or in Tunsil's case, something gets released day of draft or day before lol
Zero2Cool (8-Apr) : Seems every year someone does something pre-draft.
dfosterf (8-Apr) : Falling down drunk. The draft board
dfosterf (8-Apr) : Allright! Potential character guy/f#×k up pickup in D'Vondre Sweat!
Zero2Cool (7-Apr) : Go Badgers!!!
Martha Careful (6-Apr) : Go Boilermakers!!!
Martha Careful (5-Apr) : Diggs has not stepped up in the playoffs and has a high cost
beast (5-Apr) : Probably not going to let Diggs walk away unless he's horrible... but according to reports he also might not be as good as he used to be.
beast (5-Apr) : The 25th pick in the draft has been an offensive player since 2017, 2 TE, 2 WR, 1 RB, 1 OC
Mucky Tundra (5-Apr) : Odd, why give up a 2025 2nd Rounder for him if you're just gonna let him walk?
Zero2Cool (4-Apr) : Texans to let Diggs be free agent in '25
buckeyepackfan (4-Apr) : 49r's aign RB Patrick Taylor.
Martha Careful (4-Apr) : Reversion to the mean would indicate we will keep it
Zero2Cool (4-Apr) : It's also been utilized in a trade in 14 of the past 20 years
Zero2Cool (4-Apr) : The 25th pick in the draft hasn't been made by it's original holder since 2016.
Mucky Tundra (4-Apr) : Gotta imagine that Green Bay vs Houston will be a primetime game this upcoming season
Zero2Cool (3-Apr) : No. Kill QB. No worries. 😁
Mucky Tundra (3-Apr) : Diggs, Collins, Dell and Schultz is gonna be tough to cover
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2023 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 10 @ 3:25 PM
Bears
Sunday, Sep 17 @ 12:00 PM
Falcons
Sunday, Sep 24 @ 12:00 PM
SAINTS
Thursday, Sep 28 @ 7:15 PM
LIONS
Monday, Oct 9 @ 7:15 PM
Raiders
Sunday, Oct 22 @ 3:25 PM
Broncos
Sunday, Oct 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Nov 5 @ 12:00 PM
RAMS
Sunday, Nov 12 @ 12:00 PM
Steelers
Sunday, Nov 19 @ 12:00 PM
CHARGERS
Thursday, Nov 23 @ 11:30 AM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 3 @ 7:20 PM
CHIEFS
Monday, Dec 11 @ 7:15 PM
Giants
Sunday, Dec 17 @ 12:00 PM
BUCCANEERS
Sunday, Dec 24 @ 12:00 PM
Panthers
Sunday, Dec 31 @ 7:20 PM
Vikings
Sunday, Jan 7 @ 3:25 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Jan 14 @ 3:30 PM
Cowboys
Saturday, Jan 20 @ 7:15 PM
49ers
Recent Topics
1h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

14h / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

19-Apr / Random Babble / Zero2Cool

18-Apr / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

18-Apr / Random Babble / Mucky Tundra

18-Apr / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

17-Apr / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

17-Apr / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

17-Apr / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

17-Apr / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

17-Apr / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

16-Apr / Random Babble / Martha Careful

15-Apr / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

12-Apr / Random Babble / Nonstopdrivel

12-Apr / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2024 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.