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Zero2Cool  
#1 Posted : Thursday, May 18, 2017 9:57:56 AM(UTC)
.... annnnnnnnnnnnnd suddenly Mason just made a lot of enemies
ESPN said:
Why didn't Mike McCarthy fire Dom Capers? The answer: Mason Crosby

What do a once-struggling kicker and a defensive coordinator who has been a punching bag for the Green Bay Packers' fan base have in common?

Coach Mike McCarthy has stuck with both of them.

In the case of Mason Crosby, his slump of 2012 didn’t cost him his job, and he’s turned into one of the most reliable kickers ever since.

McCarthy appears to have applied that same line of thinking with Dom Capers, the 66-year-old who is returning for his ninth season in charge of the Packers defense despite coaching a unit that ranked 31st in the NFL in passing yards allowed last season and had another playoff meltdown.

“Well, going back to the Mason Crosby comment, and obviously applying that to the question about Dom, I think it’s important to recognize, as far answering your question about it being easy to make that change, it would give everybody a breath of fresh air,” McCarthy said during an interview that aired Thursday on ESPN Milwaukee.

Continue Reading @ ESPN
DarkaneRules  
#2 Posted : Thursday, May 18, 2017 10:23:20 AM(UTC)
Gotta give the man some players and then those players have got to stay healthy.
PackFanWithTwins  
#3 Posted : Thursday, May 18, 2017 10:28:45 AM(UTC)
From what I can see watching the games. Dom has players in the right positions for them to try and make plays. It is up to the players to do that. I can't blame Dom for player failures.
Smokey  
#4 Posted : Thursday, May 18, 2017 11:14:37 AM(UTC)
So you want to bash the Packers Defensive Coordinator Dom Capers, well your free to do so. However let's just look at the man's record.

Coach Capers will this season enter his 45th year in couching. His first 12 seasons at the college level, with 9 of those years couching the DB's . In 1984 he moved on to the pros , serving with 8 pro teams (7 NFL). Twice he was the Head Coach of new teams, Carolina and Houston, where he got them off to good starts .

Dom Capers is very smart too. He holds a degree in Physical Education and a minor in Psychology , then added a masters in Administration. Over his years as Head Coach and as Defensive Coordinator he has had some of the NFL's highest ranked defenses.

So why has this smart, accomplished coach had such a difficult road the past few seasons ? IMO , it was a combination of injuries and poor player performance . I have a better feeling going into the 2017 season about the Packers Defense. In particular at the CB ans S positions. Coach Capers pretty much started out as a Defensive Backs Coach. In addition , I see Kevin King and even possibly Josh Jones contributing in a big way this season.


Cheers!

Updated by user Thursday, May 18, 2017 7:04:51 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

yooperfan  
#5 Posted : Thursday, May 18, 2017 12:32:53 PM(UTC)
DarkaneRules said: Go to Quoted Post
Gotta give the man some players and then those players have got to stay healthy.

There is the problem, Thompson has been terrible drafting on the defensive side of the ball.

beast  
#6 Posted : Thursday, May 18, 2017 1:21:04 PM(UTC)
Honestly Crosby and Capers have a couple of items in common, starting with some of their struggles being way over blown and not their fault.


Did Crosby have a slump year? Yes, but it was waaaay over blown, Crosby was normal inside of 40 yards and had a minor slump between 41 and 50 yards... Crosby big problem was that someone else kept asking him to line up for 50+ yarders... I believe Crosby was asked to kick 9 different 50+ yard FGs, in a year that the average kicker was asked to kick less than 2.

So how was Crosby's problem solved? The coach finally figured out he was the problem and they started attempting punt the ball into the other teams 20 yard line, instead of attempting the 50+ FGs. Did Crosby slump? Yes a little bit... but the bigger problem was the Coach.


Similar problems have happened with Capers, have his defense struggled? Yes... but honestly how often has Capers been given a complete defense?

The Packers defense has had some enormousness talent gap holes in them, which is not the fault at Capers at all... after the Super Bowl, they lost some guys and had almost no pass rush... then lost Collins and had nothing other than Burnett on the back end (and with all due respect, Burnett struggled a lot at FS), then losing the CBs. There has always been a HUGE hole in the Packers talent level at important roles/positions. That's not Capers fault at all, if anyone is to blame for that it's Ted Thompson. And this year we're going into training camp with big questions at important positions again on defense. The one that concerns me the most is the lack of quality depth at OLB... and then there is also the CB questions.



But it's like Rex and Rob Ryan... they are twins, and both run the same defense and have the same over aggressive style. I would even argue that Rob Ryan has played smarter with his team... when they both faced that Packers in the same season on different teams... Rex kept blitzing Rodgers over and over and over... and Rodgers kept burning him on it. Rob was smarter, when Rodgers burned him on blitzes, he adjusted and sent everyone back into coverage.

So why is Rex's resume look so much better than Rob's? Because of the GMs and talent difference... before becoming a head coach, Rex coached under some good GMs that got him more defensive talent (though they sometime struggled on offense talent), while Rob has coached under some really, really bad GMs and his defenses had very little talent to work with.
PackFanWithTwins  
#7 Posted : Thursday, May 18, 2017 1:33:53 PM(UTC)
beast said: Go to Quoted Post
Honestly Crosby and Capers have a couple of items in common, starting with some of their struggles being way over blown and not their fault.


Did Crosby have a slump year? Yes, but it was waaaay over blown, Crosby was normal inside of 40 yards and had a minor slump between 41 and 50 yards... Crosby big problem was that someone else kept asking him to line up for 50+ yarders... I believe Crosby was asked to kick 9 different 50+ yard FGs, in a year that the average kicker was asked to kick less than 2.

So how was Crosby's problem solved? The coach finally figured out he was the problem and they started attempting punt the ball into the other teams 20 yard line, instead of attempting the 50+ FGs. Did Crosby slump? Yes a little bit... but the bigger problem was the Coach.


Crosby did actually have a kicking problem. If you go back and look, his misses were pretty much all knuckling not flying end over end like they should. they want the ball to spin for aerodynamics, the less spin the more the ball gets acted on as it passed through the air causing it the knuckle.

warhawk  
#8 Posted : Thursday, May 18, 2017 2:17:18 PM(UTC)
beast said: Go to Quoted Post
The one that concerns me the most is the lack of quality depth at OLB... and then there is also the CB questions.

I agree for sure. I'm happy with how the draft fell and I think over time King/Biegel will contribute more than if they had gone with a TJ Watt. Here's to hoping so anyways. With the addition of King, Jones, and, House, this gives Capers many options to allow plugging these guys in where they can be most successful.

The bothersome part is that it would have been great to have addressed the OLB and pass rush issue first IMO. I say this because pass rushers can have a huge affect on pass coverage where pass cover guys don't affect the pass rushers. I knew, for example, half way thru the 1st quarter of the Atlanta game GB was in big trouble. No pressure on Ryan, great wr's, and they handed our asses to us. When it gets to playoff time most all the teams have good QB's, OL's, and Wr's. The only equalizer is getting to the QB NOT covering receivers longer.
What concerns me most about our pass rushers is Clay and Perry are the front line guys and they both have durability issues. You have to hope for a big jump from Elliot, Frackrell, some juice from Biegel, and some push from the interior guys. What absolutely cannot happen is for injuries to rip into the pass rushing group like it did to the WR group two years ago and to the CB's last year.

beast  
#9 Posted : Thursday, May 18, 2017 3:10:36 PM(UTC)
warhawk said: Go to Quoted Post
I agree for sure. I'm happy with how the draft fell and I think over time King/Biegel will contribute more than if they had gone with a TJ Watt. Here's to hoping so anyways. With the addition of King, Jones, and, House, this gives Capers many options to allow plugging these guys in where they can be most successful.

The bothersome part is that it would have been great to have addressed the OLB and pass rush issue first IMO. I say this because pass rushers can have a huge affect on pass coverage where pass cover guys don't affect the pass rushers. I knew, for example, half way thru the 1st quarter of the Atlanta game GB was in big trouble. No pressure on Ryan, great wr's, and they handed our asses to us. When it gets to playoff time most all the teams have good QB's, OL's, and Wr's. The only equalizer is getting to the QB NOT covering receivers longer.
What concerns me most about our pass rushers is Clay and Perry are the front line guys and they both have durability issues. You have to hope for a big jump from Elliot, Frackrell, some juice from Biegel, and some push from the interior guys. What absolutely cannot happen is for injuries to rip into the pass rushing group like it did to the WR group two years ago and to the CB's last year.


Yeah that's basically explains what I'm worried about... with the thin quality depth at OLB, injuries could potentially be a HUGE problem at the position... and that position effects the whole defense. One key injury could potentially ruin the entire defensive plans and force them into blitzing more. Which against good OL/QB that can handle the blitz well and find the open guy, that can be a bad thing.

Though, I think both Fackrell and Elliot have shown some surprisingly good pass rush in very limited snaps. Of course that's when they were fresh off the bench, going against guys that weren't fresh and there was a reason they were on the bench. But there is pass rush potential there... not sure about their run defense potential though.

Also all this means, they're counting on their DL more as well, which might be getting better.... as Clark and Lowry should be better their 2nd year (like more interior DL guys are normally much better than their rookie years), and adding Jean Francois and Adams should improve the depth and the interior pressure.
yooperfan  
#10 Posted : Thursday, May 18, 2017 3:24:31 PM(UTC)
beast said: Go to Quoted Post
Honestly Crosby and Capers have a couple of items in common, starting with some of their struggles being way over blown and not their fault.


Did Crosby have a slump year? Yes, but it was waaaay over blown, Crosby was normal inside of 40 yards and had a minor slump between 41 and 50 yards... Crosby big problem was that someone else kept asking him to line up for 50+ yarders... I believe Crosby was asked to kick 9 different 50+ yard FGs, in a year that the average kicker was asked to kick less than 2.

So how was Crosby's problem solved? The coach finally figured out he was the problem and they started attempting punt the ball into the other teams 20 yard line, instead of attempting the 50+ FGs. Did Crosby slump? Yes a little bit... but the bigger problem was the Coach.


Similar problems have happened with Capers, have his defense struggled? Yes... but honestly how often has Capers been given a complete defense?

The Packers defense has had some enormousness talent gap holes in them, which is not the fault at Capers at all... after the Super Bowl, they lost some guys and had almost no pass rush... then lost Collins and had nothing other than Burnett on the back end (and with all due respect, Burnett struggled a lot at FS), then losing the CBs. There has always been a HUGE hole in the Packers talent level at important roles/positions. That's not Capers fault at all, if anyone is to blame for that it's Ted Thompson. And this year we're going into training camp with big questions at important positions again on defense. The one that concerns me the most is the lack of quality depth at OLB... and then there is also the CB questions.



But it's like Rex and Rob Ryan... they are twins, and both run the same defense and have the same over aggressive style. I would even argue that Rob Ryan has played smarter with his team... when they both faced that Packers in the same season on different teams... Rex kept blitzing Rodgers over and over and over... and Rodgers kept burning him on it. Rob was smarter, when Rodgers burned him on blitzes, he adjusted and sent everyone back into coverage.

So why is Rex's resume look so much better than Rob's? Because of the GMs and talent difference... before becoming a head coach, Rex coached under some good GMs that got him more defensive talent (though they sometime struggled on offense talent), while Rob has coached under some really, really bad GMs and his defenses had very little talent to work with.

Excellent analysis!

gbguy20  
#11 Posted : Thursday, May 18, 2017 3:58:34 PM(UTC)
Smokey, it's spelled coach. Come on.
Porforis  
#12 Posted : Thursday, May 18, 2017 5:43:53 PM(UTC)
I agree with the comments regarding the players being in the right positions and people not executing. Given his history of getting a serviceable defense out of complete no-names at times, including having to resort to some pretty unorthodox formations at times, he's proven he can be the type of DC you don't want to let go.

Another season of this? Then I say you let him walk. Still think he's a good coach, doesn't always mean that change won't help and throw some fire under people's asses.
Smokey  
#13 Posted : Thursday, May 18, 2017 7:07:24 PM(UTC)
gbguy20 said: Go to Quoted Post
Smokey, it's spelled coach. Come on.


Thank You, corrections have been made . Confused
Laser Gunns  
#14 Posted : Friday, May 19, 2017 10:08:51 AM(UTC)
A question I have asked every day for the last 5-6 years.
DakotaT  
#15 Posted : Friday, May 19, 2017 10:35:51 AM(UTC)
Message was deleted by a Moderator. | Reason: Detrimental to the topic
DakotaT  
#16 Posted : Friday, May 19, 2017 10:40:38 AM(UTC)
With all the blown opportunities for trophies, shouldn't all these coaches be gone already?

How many years has Capers tried to field a defense with absolute dog shit at inside linebacker, in a linebacker featured defense? With all the success and accolades bestowed upon TT, he leaves major holes in this roster every year, especially on defense.
Laser Gunns  
#17 Posted : Saturday, May 20, 2017 4:28:12 PM(UTC)
I made a thread a few years ago about Ted's failure to replace talent lost (injury or otherwise) from that 2010/11 defensive squad.

I could copy/paste that as a new thread today and the position groupings would still be completely applicable.

His drafts have gutted our defense. Especially high picks like Datone Jones, Jerel Worthy, Hayward (1year), Thornton and Nick Perry.

No, I do not consider nick's first productive season a sign of things to come. As a whole, he's still an injury prone underperforming LB, and it's going to take a lot more than 1 decent year to make him worth the 1st
Smokey  
#18 Posted : Saturday, May 20, 2017 5:33:53 PM(UTC)
Talk about your lost opportunities, I wanted GB to draft Barnardrick McKinney a few years back. He's now a starting LB for Houston.

Will this years crop do better ? Shrug
Cheesey  
#19 Posted : Saturday, May 20, 2017 8:16:52 PM(UTC)
When we had good players, we did well.
Someone has to light a fire under the rear ends of the D players and get them to EARN their money. Hold up their end of the team.
Zero2Cool  
#20 Posted : Sunday, May 21, 2017 7:13:58 AM(UTC)
Injuries are not an excuse. And that's something we all know, we all understand. Nick Perry is a stud, when healthy. The problem is he's rarely healthy. Since he was a rookie he's had a major impact when he's on the field.

The Packers have invested something like 6 straight first round picks on the defensive side. You should get at least 3 starters and by starters I am talking starters that earn the spot, not were given the spot because nothing behind them.

Yeah, yeah, we always pick at the back of the rounds. I don't care. If you have good coaches, they can develop the talent. Look at Joe Whitt Jr, he's developing undrafted free agents into Pro Bowl (yawn) players.

We need healthier players and a better coaching staff to develop them.

If that's not gonna happen, you need to dip into tier 2 free agency players to get the defense solidified.

Last thing -- the 2010 run players were asked what changed that they got so good towards the end of the regular season. (this was while the playoffs were happening) and it was said that they scaled things way back and its easier to just play reaction football instead of thinking.

The best football scheme is where you just beat the man across from you and worry less about other things.
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