Barfarn
  • Barfarn
  • Senior Member Topic Starter
6 years ago
Just what is their thinking here???

“You have no right to kneel SILENTLY to protest police brutality during the Anthem because it is disrespectful. But, it is perfectly okay for me to protest during the Anthem to protest your silent kneeling by loudly booing and disturbing everyone within earshot. People around me will certainly see what a great American I am.”

What a bunch of egocentric duplicitous half-witted anti-American dotard losers!

Most that burn the Flag or protest during the Anthem are actually proving their understanding of the importance of these symbols. This understanding is arrived at because in their heart they FEEL a strong patriotism and their hearts are wounded when they see the degrading of our freedom and liberty. Juxtapose this against the person who is American only by birth location, that has no feeling or senses of the importance of liberty and freedoms we enjoy. The American-by-birth and not in heart can see the Japanese interned, Blacks denied the ability to sit in the front of a bus and minorities executed by police without feeling the slightest bit of outrage. These American-by-birth are so patriotically dead inside they would never dream of burning a Flag or protesting during the Anthem because these symbols mean nothing to them.

They guy bragging about having a huge schlong is surely to have the smallest little tiny schlork in the room; their mouth is trying to compensate for what they know in their heart is a shortcoming. This is exactly what the Anthem boo-clowns are doing; they’re compensating for the anti-American sickness and hate in their hearts by trying to pass it off as patriotism.
Porforis
6 years ago
People will warp things as much as they need to in order to reinforce their worldview. God forbid anybody accepts that other people have different opinions than they do, but still have the right to express them. I can't think of anything more ludicrous (especially coming from a politician) than saying someone shouldn't be able to peacefully protest during the national anthem because it's disrespectful. Trying to suppress political speech is pretty damn un-American. Then again, it's all fine and dandy when it's speech I disagree with.

If you think it's dumb and pointless, fine. If you think they're doing it for attention rather than actually trying to bring about change, fine. Go ahead and express that, and accept that some people are going to disagree with you. But don't tell people they shouldn't be able to protest. Just because you disagree with someone's words or actions doesn't make them unpatriotic.
PackFanWithTwins
6 years ago
Both acts IMO are disrespectful to those who fought and died and protect our nation. Players have the right to protest if they choose, and people have the right to show their displeasure. So many people seem to think free speech is free from consequences and that is also incorrect.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
dhazer
6 years ago
Ok Bar and Porforis , let's try an experiment tomorrow. I want you to go into work and clock in and after that I want you to go outside and start protesting. Like against the KKK or BLM whatever and I can guarantee you won't have a job for very long. Why well #1 once you clock in you are property of the owner of the company and you are wasting time and not being productive. #2 is if it brings negative feedback towards your company you would be let go. So the way I look at it the players are on the clock when they protest so it is wrong and it brings negative feedback towards the club. They can do all their protesting on social media or go out in the Parking lot before or after the game and protest away.

What I would love to see is at halftime of next weeks games the security all takes a knee and lets the crowd do whatever they want to the players. I think that would be justice.

Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂 (PS, Zero should charge for this)
UserPostedImage
Cheesey
6 years ago
Showing disrespect for the country...please explain how that has anything to do with police shootings.
And also tell me how any of that will change anything?
Answer: it won't.
It's just another liberal "feel good" useless thing.
Want to stop cops killing black people?
Tell the blacks to stop disobeying the police. Do what the police tell you to do! Don't run, don't fight back, don't argue.

Why is that so hard to comprehend????

99 out of 100 times its the cops protecting themselves because of people
Not doing what they are told when stopped.
I could have been shot many times, but I always did WHAT THE POLICE TOLD ME TO DO!!!
Easy, if you ask me.
UserPostedImage
Porforis
6 years ago

Ok Bar and Porforis , let's try an experiment tomorrow. I want you to go into work and clock in and after that I want you to go outside and start protesting. Like against the KKK or BLM whatever and I can guarantee you won't have a job for very long.

Originally Posted by: dhazer 



See, your analogy starts out okay...

Why well #1 once you clock in you are property of the owner of the company and you are wasting time and not being productive.

Originally Posted by: dhazer 



And then it falls apart.

1. Kneeling is not any more or less of a waste of time than standing in this case, nor is there anything more productive a player can do doing this time without eliciting the same ire (or more) than they would by standing. Standing for the national anthem is not part of their job requirement

2. This is very much an hourly employee mindset - NFL players are not hourly employees. They are salaried members of the team that signs them. To my above point, there is literally nothing more they can be doing during that period of time, nor is kneeling versus standing otherwise impacting their ability to perform their job in the future. Yes, some employers still expect salaried employees to be present at a specific location during set hours. Others/some positions, as long as you get your job done, they couldn't care less when you leave. Which leads into my second point on the next response...

#2 is if it brings negative feedback towards your company you would be let go. So the way I look at it the players are on the clock when they protest so it is wrong and it brings negative feedback towards the club.

Originally Posted by: dhazer 



This revolves under the assumption that teams are receiving primarily bad feedback. If say, my protests got me on the news and it pissed 30% of the people off, 20% of the people didn't care, and 50% of the people loved it and patronized our business as a result, this would be POSITIVE for the company.

Furthermore, your previous point relies on the assumption that the clubs share your sentiment on the matter - The majority of the league's owners, and the league's commissioner made comments condemning Mister Trump's statements. Many explicitly supported the rights of the players to kneel.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/09/25/nfl-anthem-protests-roger-goodell-president-trump-week-3-peter-king 

As of Sunday night, at least 23 of the league’s 32 owners issued statements on Trump’s comments, or spoke about them. Three of the seven men (Woody Johnson of the Jets, Dallas’ Jerry Jones and Tampa Bay’s Edward Glazer) who donated to Trump following the 2016 election did not comment over the weekend. Johnson, Jones and Glazer gave several million dollars toward the cost of Trump’s inauguration. Johnson is not currently owner of the Jets, and acting CEO Christopher Johnson issued a statement Sunday.

Many of the statements were formulaic and respectful, with only a few rapping Trump with more than a ruler on the knuckles. John Mara and Steve Tisch, co-chairs of the Giants, called the comments “inappropriate, offensive and divisive.”



So I really don't understand where you get off suggesting that if the owner of the company I worked for (and the owner of the parent company) came out and said they support my right to protest during a certain portion of my work day, would fire me if I went out and protested during that certain portion of my work day. I don't agree with you. Millions of other people don't agree with you. THE PEOPLE PAYING THE PAYCHECKS OF THE PEOPLE YOU'RE COMPLAINING ABOUT don't agree with you. The commissioner of the league doesn't agree with you. So again, I really don't get what you're getting at beyond "I don't like people protesting during the national anthem", which is something completely different than implying people should be fired for doing so.
Barfarn
  • Barfarn
  • Senior Member Topic Starter
6 years ago

Ok Bar and Porforis , let's try an experiment tomorrow. I want you to go into work and clock in and after that I want you to go outside and start protesting. Like against the KKK or BLM whatever and I can guarantee you won't have a job for very long. Why well #1 once you clock in you are property of the owner of the company and you are wasting time and not being productive. #2 is if it brings negative feedback towards your company you would be let go. So the way I look at it the players are on the clock when they protest so it is wrong and it brings negative feedback towards the club. They can do all their protesting on social media or go out in the Parking lot before or after the game and protest away.

What I would love to see is at halftime of next weeks games the security all takes a knee and lets the crowd do whatever they want to the players. I think that would be justice.

Originally Posted by: dhazer 



The security guard thing is pretty funny and creative 😂.

I was just talking about the duplicity thing; but I guess this was the inevitable path.

Taking your clocking-in analogy directly, it's be tantamount to Bennett stopping and kneeling as a Rodgers pass was on its way and it bounced of his head. Protesting during the Anthem doesn't affect a player's performance.

But, your other point is 100% valid. "Free speech" only applies directly to the State curbing speech; private companies dont have carte blanche, but have wide latitude for firing people for what they say. If Keapernick can prove he's being black-balled for his speech [and this can only be known if we know his contract demands-If he's demanding 15M, only a dotard would pay that; but if he'll work for minimum, he's being black-balled] he has no 1st Amendment case unless he can prove the NFL is in conspiracy with the State.

Let's us another analogy: 3 white packer players kneel during the Anthem to protest the backlash white supremacist are facing for standing up for their belief in White Supremacy.

I'd say the State is prohibited from and should do NOTHING to curb white supremacists from expressing their views; but I'd tell 1265 to cut their sorry asses today! And I'd guess you could fairly argue, I'm being duplicitous. That is, I'm not for all private free speech, I just want private free speech to remain free on issues I like.

But, as addressed in my "Jackie Robinson" post and some others that have been deleted, the NFL and its players are viewed as positive role models. And part of that Brand incorporates the idea that all men shall have the free pursuit of life liberty and happiness. Part of the NFL brand is grounded in its history of breaking down racial barriers. Heck, I'm proud that Lombardi was a leader like Branch Rickey is being outspoken about racial discrimination.segregation and gay rights. Ultimately the NFL decides what is and what is not a wholesome activity. They see breaking thru discrimination barriers and breast cancer awareness a something positive to support; they denounce pot smoking, wife beating and other stuff.

The movement to end police violence must be a positive thing and anyone arguing otherwise is dog-whistling. And it is inline with what the NFL brand should promote. We all know some cops do use excessive and excessive lethal force. Now let's say it's just one bad cop. Only a complete dotard would say, leave this bad cop to be. And the last people that should do this are Cops. The fact that Cops are offended at moves to punish and get the bad ones off the streets highlights just exactly how big a problem it is. Those whining about the movement to get the bad ones off the streets somehow disrespects cops are dog-whistling. Wanting all bad cops off the streets doesn't disparage cops, it exalts them, it tells them how much we appreciate the honest ones. We have tens of thousands of witnesses that if a fraction are believed prove the problem is huge and no one can prove the contrary. Those that try, manipulate stats that originate from the Cops. Cops dont write reports on their misconduct, so again only a dotard or one driven by an agenda use stats sanitized by Cops to argue that Cops dont profile, harass, assault, battery or execute minorities.
PackFanWithTwins
6 years ago
biggest problem today is nobody knows what they are protesting about anymore. Kaepernick started not even protesting. He was simply sitting, the "protesting" didn't come out until weeks later to try and protect his ass "image". And that was based on a lie or misrepresentation in the first place. Hell, Lance Kendricks was talking about Puerto Rico. Bennett is supposedly protesting about his brothers treatment and the video of that doesn't show anything to back up that claim. Some of them were protesting because kaepernick doesn't have a job. That makes the act of disrespecting the flag and anthem even worse.


In addition, players are saying they were not disrespecting our military or veterans. Clearly from the response to these protests, the act HAS disrespected many, not all by many veterans and military members. Going forward, if they continue to protest in this manner, they do so knowing their act is disrespectful.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
Barfarn
  • Barfarn
  • Senior Member Topic Starter
6 years ago

biggest problem today is nobody knows what they are protesting about anymore. Kaepernick started not even protesting. He was simply sitting, the "protesting" didn't come out until weeks later to try and protect his ass "image". And that was based on a lie or misrepresentation in the first place. Hell, Lance Kendricks was talking about Puerto Rico. Bennett is supposedly protesting about his brothers treatment and the video of that doesn't show anything to back up that claim. Some of them were protesting because kaepernick doesn't have a job. That makes the act of disrespecting the flag and anthem even worse.


In addition, players are saying they were not disrespecting our military or veterans. Clearly from the response to these protests, the act HAS disrespected many, not all by many veterans and military members. Going forward, if they continue to protest in this manner, they do so knowing their act is disrespectful.

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 



No video to corroborate Bennett's contention means it didn't happen? We dont have video because THE COPS TURNED OFF THEIR CAMERAS! Or imagining the shit-storm for putting a gun to an NFL players head while threatening to blow it off, they tampered with evidence by disposing of the video. Again, bad cops work not to document their badness and will work to undocument it when necessary!!!

Ranger Villeneuva of Steelers upon further reflection admitted he made a mistake standing in tunnel for the Anthem. And not all of our military/Vets know why they fight/fought. They fight to preserve, the rule of law, the peaceful transition of power and liberty and freedom for all; to preserve our national security. Cops profiling, harassing, assaulting, batterying and/or assassinating minorities violates each reason. There are racists and racially insensitive in the military and to the military/vet that innocently doesn't get it, we still very much appreciate your service; but you should reflect before you speak.

Not everyone has to have the exact same agenda to protest or to openly support protesters. Some get more vocal when it becomes more real, like realizing your brother death was continent on an enraged adrenaline filled lunatic's twitching of his index finger. Some become outraged when they see how protesters are treated; that's why I ended up at Standing Rock with several military/veterans, I'm convinced this prevented blood shed. And if the State takes issue with private protest like Trump did; that is sill another reason to now realize you must help to preserve a free America. BTW, Trump's behavior gives Kaepernick a path to a 1st amendment suit for the loss of his employment.

Kaepernik stuff FALSE and will be considered a prevarication until you source your position.
Kendrick point silly which must be: once protesting about police violence; he cant speak about PR.

You argue the movement is based on outliers; but then use outlier examples to argue "nobody" knows what they're protesting. Dot be a flip-flop sally. Outliers either prove or dont prove an issue; but ya cant flip-flop to suit the shameful argument you set forth.
Zero2Cool
6 years ago

BTW, Trump's behavior gives Kaepernick a path to a 1st amendment suit for the loss of his employment.

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



How?
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