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TheKanataThrilla  
#21 Posted : Wednesday, June 6, 2018 9:27:22 AM(UTC)
If they are so concerned about police brutality they should go kneel in front of the police station. Join a protest group and march the streets. That's like me showing up to work and kneeling down in a meeting protesting about something that has nothing to do with my job.
DarkaneRules  
#22 Posted : Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:22:54 AM(UTC)
The thing is about that is we don't get to tell people how or where to protest. Also, to your point, groups have been protesting outside of police stations, as well.
TheKanataThrilla  
#23 Posted : Wednesday, June 6, 2018 11:10:40 AM(UTC)
DarkaneRules said: Go to Quoted Post
The thing is about that is we don't get to tell people how or where to protest. Also, to your point, groups have been protesting outside of police stations, as well.


On a companies dime you do. Also what does kneeling during the national anthem have to do with police brutality anyway. Have any of the NFL players are protested outside of police stations. I don't give a shit about groups I am talking about the players.

Personally I think Kaep is conning people. I think he became a known commodity in the NFL and was getting dumped by the 49ers. He only started kneeling when he started to suck. And for somebody to protest the flag and not even bother to vote. Bahahahahaha.

Zero2Cool  
#24 Posted : Wednesday, June 6, 2018 11:23:09 AM(UTC)
TheKanataThrilla said: Go to Quoted Post
On a companies dime you do. Also what does kneeling during the national anthem have to do with police brutality anyway. Have any of the NFL players are protested outside of police stations. I don't give a shit about groups I am talking about the players.

Personally I think Kaep is conning people. I think he became a known commodity in the NFL and was getting dumped by the 49ers. He only started kneeling when he started to suck. And for somebody to protest the flag and not even bother to vote. Bahahahahaha.



Here’s what Colin Kaepernick told NFL.com’s Steve Wyche:

“I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses Black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder.”

DarkaneRules  
#25 Posted : Wednesday, June 6, 2018 12:15:16 PM(UTC)
TheKanataThrilla said: Go to Quoted Post
On a companies dime you do. Also what does kneeling during the national anthem have to do with police brutality anyway. Have any of the NFL players are protested outside of police stations. I don't give a shit about groups I am talking about the players.

Personally I think Kaep is conning people. I think he became a known commodity in the NFL and was getting dumped by the 49ers. He only started kneeling when he started to suck. And for somebody to protest the flag and not even bother to vote. Bahahahahaha.



I can tell you are passionate about this subject too. The league is listening to you, so that should be comforting.
Cheesey  
#26 Posted : Wednesday, June 6, 2018 9:44:16 PM(UTC)
gbguy20 said: Go to Quoted Post
Why can't JW's stand for the pledge?

We were taught that it was putting the country ahead of God.
We were not allowed to celebrate our birthdays either. Taking Jesus’ words where he said “remember my death, not my birth” and we were told “if we were not supposed to remember Jesus birth, how could we celebrate our own birth?”
Which is STUPID! Jesus was saying to remember WHY he came here, to die for our sins, not to not remember HIS or our own births.
That’s what JWs do. Twist meanings to fit what they want. And you don’t DARE question them, for fear of being disfelliwshipped (kicked out).

Now, with Kapernick, it’s obvious he wants to make a point. Of course it really doesn’t mean anything. It’s just a “feel good” thing. And as I have stated over and over, almost all the “people of color” killed by police end up that way because of something the person of color did. If they did what the police told them to do, instead of fighting, or running or pulling a weapon, they wouldn’t end up dead.
Most white people do what the cops tell them to do. That’s why not as many whites end up dead.
If you teach your kids to disrespect authority, and to fight the police if you get pulled over, what do you EXPECT the outcome to be???
Barfarn  
#27 Posted : Monday, June 11, 2018 7:38:58 AM(UTC)
KRK said: Go to Quoted Post
The first amendment has NOTHING to do with this issue.


This is one of 2 issues...and I profoundly disagree [See 2nd half of post]!

TheKanataThrilla said: Go to Quoted Post
That's like me showing up to work and kneeling down in a meeting protesting about something that has nothing to do with my job.


This is the 2nd issue:

A more precise simile has you sitting at your desk around startin’ time. You’re fired because you refused to stand and cluck like a chicken [Because you’re a beef man]; your boss further blackballs you in your profession. If you’d find this problematic and if there’s intellectual consistency, then what is happening to Kaepernick is also problematic to you.

1. To see the subject issues with clarity American values need to be reviewed and nationalistic biases need to be stowed.

What if a team were bought by a N.Korean entity, can the team force a player to pledge allegiance to Kim Jung-Un before each game? Or are Americans required to pay reverence to England’s anthem for a game in London? If one is intellectually honest and consistent, it’s clear these situations are analogous to the subject outrageous demands NFL owners are placing on their players.

By its very definition, one cannot disrespect our Flag; it’s just a symbol, it’s nothing more than a colorful piece of cloth. Countries in which one could be prosecuted for “disrespecting” a national symbol: N.Korea [Remember Wambier?]; 1933-45 Germany, and a plethora of despotic regimes throughout history. America doesn’t prosecute peaceful protestors for even burning a Flag. A protestor losing his career for his protest, not the substance of the protest, is nothing more than a de facto prosecution.

The Flag can’t be disrespected, but the values it represents can be. Disrespect comes when one is ignorant or openly hostile to the American values our Flag represents. Punishing a protestor asserting that the G’s police are oppressing members of his race is 100% hostile to American values [Even if the protester is incorrect], it threatens our national security, and its ignorant [Unless one supports despotism]. Ironically, one waxing patriotic while demanding everyone have a robotic reverence to symbols literally defiles the American values they’re touting; it’s downright creepy; it’s a most wretched duplicity.

This is how a Patriot voices dissent to a protest. A Patriot counters a peaceful protestor of [EG] lawful abortion by first exercising EMPATHY and RESPECT for THE PROTESTOR’s THINKING that a child is being outright killed, even though that thinking is entirely misplaced. A Patriot imagines if the G decided to KILL her children, she’s thankful similar protestors will sound. A Patriot counters the abortion activist’s speech with freedom of choice speech/demonstration and voices disagreement with scholarship, not ignorant denials that abortion doesn’t exist ellipsed in idiotic feckless dogma. A Patriot dissenting to an abortion activist’s thinking will never demand the activist is prosecuted, muzzled or his ability to earn is disabled…NEVER!

Protest is fundamental to our genesis and our ongoing security. Our Nation’s birth mimics just about every regime’s creation: when King George punished and/or ignored protest, our forefathers settled their issues with guns. And we call them heroes, don’t we? After the revolt, the greatest fear of the Constitution’s drafters was the inherent problem with democracies: tyranny of the majority. The ENTIRE thrust of our Constitution is designed to prevent a majority from using their position to terrorize a minority. One critical feature of this design are protections installed for the interplay of protest and speech. If speech and protest is punished and/or dismissed and minorities believe the G is out to exterminate and/or fiscally enslave them, it is certain that one day they will take up arms. And if foreign powers and/or an ISIS type faction intervene in a big way; present day America will be gone. Imagine lore of this Browner America that emerges will hail the protesters as heroes, President Kaepernick and VP Reid will be on the $1 and $5 bills…“USA…USA…USA!”

2. There’s two employment issues at play.

Does an Employer have the right to:

(#1) curb/quash protected free speech of his employees; and

(#2) make one stand for Anthem, recite Pledge Allegiance to Flag, crow like a rooster at dawn or pledge allegiance to NK’s Kim?

Answer to #1 is YES! However, the dynamic changes drastically if the employer is either de facto or in fact the USG or working in concert with the USG. There are surely enough facts to allege in a suit that the new Anthem policy is the work of the USG acting in concert with the NFL. Heck, Trump and Jerry Jones even said so [While their lawyers gasp]! Also, considered for the purposes of abridgement of speech is that otherwise private companies can be considered governmental units based on the amount of Public assistance they receive. The NFL receives enough Public assistance in the form of funds [directly or thru tax breaks], infrastructure and subsidized facilities to allege in suit that the NFL is a governmental unit; then it’s up to the trier of fact to decide. The actions the NFL has taken against Kaepernick is probably “illegal;” and 100% certainly “illegal” if multiple teams colluded to blackball.

Answer to #2 is also YES; as long as that condition is fundamental to the job and/or was expressly made at the time of hiring and is in the employment manual. But, neither of these conditions apply in Kaepernick’s case. Obviously, Anthem standing is NOT intrinsically part of playing football and the NFL’s employment relationship is defined by a CBA, which means, NFL owners are prohibited from unilaterally changing terms of employment. Clearly, the NFL’s new Anthem standing rule is “illegal.”

Sure, the NFL will argue the Anthem standing rule is simply a clarification of the CBA’s conduct policy, which obviously cannot list every required or prohibited behavior. The viability of this position turns on whether the players could have reasonably expected that Anthem standing was a required behavior.
But, this argument will fail for the following reasons:

Kaepernick first sat August 26 2016 [BTW, A GB Game] and then started kneeling after consulting with an army vet. The next week he was joined by Eric Reid [Ya think the NFL is sending a message?]. Obviously, if it was understood by the league that this was a conduct policy violation, the clarification would have been made known or a grievance would have been filed in the fall of ’16.

The NFL actually said in August 2016 that "Players are encouraged but not required to stand during the playing of the national anthem."

The NBA has had an expressed Anthem standing rule for many years. It is not like this wasn’t thought of before and bargained for by a major professional sports league. A player could assume if the NFL expected Anthem standing to be required that they too would have simply bargained for a rule.

Until 2009, the players were in the lockerroom during the Anthem. It was well known that some players would find their way to the end of the tunnel or otherwise seek out a Flag and stand for the Anthem. Obviously, standing for the Anthem was never required prior to 2009.

In November 2014, 5 Rams players [one was Jared Cook] came out of tunnel in “Hands-up don’t shoot” position in response to Ferguson. The St Louis police union wanted scalps. Goodell refused to discipline the players because it was before the game. This served as notice to the players that protesting before the game is not a conduct policy violation.

Oh BTW, did you know that from 1775 to 1783 Americans were promised property to induce them to join the revolutionary fight against the British? This offer obviously appealed to poorer Americans. After the defeat of the British the parcels were distributed; but states immediately levied massive property taxes on those parcels causing most of the parcels to be reclaimed through eviction. USA…USA…USA!

Know your history…see Howard Zinn!
Zero2Cool  
#28 Posted : Monday, June 11, 2018 8:16:53 AM(UTC)
Barfarn said: Go to Quoted Post
Kaepernick first sat August 26 2016 [BTW, A GB Game] and then started kneeling after consulting with an army vet.

Know your history…see Howard Zinn!


KNOW YOUR FACTS!!

I'm only kidding around, but I remembered hearing the Packers game wasn't the first time he sat during the National Anthem.
KRK  
#29 Posted : Monday, June 11, 2018 8:33:04 AM(UTC)
Barfan,
I love your passion.
First, I guess I am somewhat confused about whether you agree that this is not a first amendment issue. The first Amendment only deals with the GOVERNMENT suppression of free speech. The GOVERNMENT is not a party to these agreements (thank God) and is NOT a guarantor of free speech at the workplace. This issue has everything to do with the Employer/Employee relationship. It gets into the realm of employment law, which I know almost nothing. My guess is that there is some language in the NFLPA collective bargaining agreement that deals with this stuff. (If there are any employment law guys on the blog…please opine.)
Second, I hardly would equate standing for the National Anthem with clucking like a duck. Standing at the National Anthem is within societal norms…at least it has been.
Third, I think many of us have a problem with the NFL’s hypocrisy on dealing with free speech. I believe there is a justifiable rationale for the public’s discontent with the NFL which stems from the inconsistency displayed in the following “free speech/special cause” statements by players. To wit:
  • In 2012 the NFL had an issue with Tim Tebow kneeling for each game to pray, they also had an issue with Tebow wearing John 3:16 as part of his eye-black to avoid glare, and made him take it off. (It also did not allow an ad by Tebow mom in a subsequent Super Bowl which was Pro-Life)
    In 2013 the NFL fined Brandon Marshall for wearing green cleats to raise awareness for people with mental health disorders.
    In 2014 Robert Griffin III (RG3) entered a post-game press conference wearing a shirt that said "Know Jesus Know Peace" but was forced to turn it inside out by an NFL uniform inspector before speaking at the podium.
    In 2015 DeAngelo Williams was fined for wearing "Find the Cure" eye black for breast cancer awareness.
    In 2015 William Gay was fined for wearing purple cleats to raise awareness for domestic violence. (Not that the NFL has a domestic violence problem...)
    In 2016 the NFL prevented the Dallas Cowboys from wearing a decal on their helmet in honor of 5 Dallas Police officers killed in the line of duty.
    In 2016 the NFL threatened to fine players who wanted to wear cleats to commemorate the 15th anniversary of 9/11.

History has clearly illustrated the NFL has taken a position AGAINST actions by NFL players which demonstrate RESPECT for God, social causes such as mental health, cancer, domestic violence, for cops killed arbitrarily for being cops, or for the Memory of 9/11. I and many others find this position really frigging irritating.
Now, all of a sudden, the NFL seems to be greatly concerned about free speech and expression. Now, they will allow demonstrations of DISRESPECT for our National Flag and the National Anthem, if it will help mollify a particular Group and its supporters.
This is what the NFL has shown itself to be, ergo the discontent.
Finally, does anybody want to remember that Kaepernick was benched for his crappy play before all this started?
Cheesey  
#30 Posted : Monday, June 11, 2018 2:43:29 PM(UTC)
It seems kaepernick is using the kneeling deal to try to blame the NFL for him not his not having a job, when it is actually that his play SUCKS.
Why would any team owner take on a so so QB, which would come along with his baggage?
He’s not on a team for BOTH reasons.
Making players stay off the field if they don’t want to stand should be good enough for the players.
They are on the job, and if they want to protest, then protest on their own time.
If that’s not good enough, then go get a real job.
wpr  
#31 Posted : Monday, June 11, 2018 7:16:21 PM(UTC)
KRK said: Go to Quoted Post
Barfan,
I love your passion.
First, I guess I am somewhat confused about whether you agree that this is not a first amendment issue. The first Amendment only deals with the GOVERNMENT suppression of free speech. The GOVERNMENT is not a party to these agreements (thank God) and is NOT a guarantor of free speech at the workplace. This issue has everything to do with the Employer/Employee relationship. It gets into the realm of employment law, which I know almost nothing. My guess is that there is some language in the NFLPA collective bargaining agreement that deals with this stuff. (If there are any employment law guys on the blog…please opine.)
Second, I hardly would equate standing for the National Anthem with clucking like a duck. Standing at the National Anthem is within societal norms…at least it has been.
Third, I think many of us have a problem with the NFL’s hypocrisy on dealing with free speech. I believe there is a justifiable rationale for the public’s discontent with the NFL which stems from the inconsistency displayed in the following “free speech/special cause” statements by players. To wit:
  • In 2012 the NFL had an issue with Tim Tebow kneeling for each game to pray, they also had an issue with Tebow wearing John 3:16 as part of his eye-black to avoid glare, and made him take it off. (It also did not allow an ad by Tebow mom in a subsequent Super Bowl which was Pro-Life)
    In 2013 the NFL fined Brandon Marshall for wearing green cleats to raise awareness for people with mental health disorders.
    In 2014 Robert Griffin III (RG3) entered a post-game press conference wearing a shirt that said "Know Jesus Know Peace" but was forced to turn it inside out by an NFL uniform inspector before speaking at the podium.
    In 2015 DeAngelo Williams was fined for wearing "Find the Cure" eye black for breast cancer awareness.
    In 2015 William Gay was fined for wearing purple cleats to raise awareness for domestic violence. (Not that the NFL has a domestic violence problem...)
    In 2016 the NFL prevented the Dallas Cowboys from wearing a decal on their helmet in honor of 5 Dallas Police officers killed in the line of duty.
    In 2016 the NFL threatened to fine players who wanted to wear cleats to commemorate the 15th anniversary of 9/11.

History has clearly illustrated the NFL has taken a position AGAINST actions by NFL players which demonstrate RESPECT for God, social causes such as mental health, cancer, domestic violence, for cops killed arbitrarily for being cops, or for the Memory of 9/11. I and many others find this position really frigging irritating.
Now, all of a sudden, the NFL seems to be greatly concerned about free speech and expression. Now, they will allow demonstrations of DISRESPECT for our National Flag and the National Anthem, if it will help mollify a particular Group and its supporters.
This is what the NFL has shown itself to be, ergo the discontent.
Finally, does anybody want to remember that Kaepernick was benched for his crappy play before all this started?


I don't use it now but I had several business law classes in college 100 years ago. They were taught by a professor who was an arbitrator for labor relation disputes. All of that was long before professional sports current style of CBAs. (Back then MLBPA kicked ass every time.)

All in all I agree speech/actions/dress are dictated by the CBA. It's not that NFL, Inc is against the causes you mentioned (one has to wonder how dedicated they are to domestic abuse) it's simply that they fear losing two or three shekels from their Mt Everett of gold if they let players dress however they feel like it. Some sponsor may only give them $950,000,000,000 million instead of $950,000,000,001 million for the chance to have their brand in front of the sheeple viewers.
Barfarn  
#32 Posted : Thursday, June 14, 2018 4:43:46 PM(UTC)
KRK said: Go to Quoted Post
Barfan,
I love your passion.
First, I guess I am somewhat confused about whether you agree that this is not a first amendment issue. The first Amendment only deals with the GOVERNMENT suppression of free speech. The GOVERNMENT is not a party to these agreements (thank God) and is NOT a guarantor of free speech at the workplace. This issue has everything to do with the Employer/Employee relationship. It gets into the realm of employment law, which I know almost nothing. My guess is that there is some language in the NFLPA collective bargaining agreement that deals with this stuff. (If there are any employment law guys on the blog…please opine.)
Second, I hardly would equate standing for the National Anthem with clucking like a duck. Standing at the National Anthem is within societal norms…at least it has been.
Third, I think many of us have a problem with the NFL’s hypocrisy on dealing with free speech. I believe there is a justifiable rationale for the public’s discontent with the NFL which stems from the inconsistency displayed in the following “free speech/special cause” statements by players. To wit:
  • In 2012 the NFL had an issue with Tim Tebow kneeling for each game to pray, they also had an issue with Tebow wearing John 3:16 as part of his eye-black to avoid glare, and made him take it off. (It also did not allow an ad by Tebow mom in a subsequent Super Bowl which was Pro-Life)
    In 2013 the NFL fined Brandon Marshall for wearing green cleats to raise awareness for people with mental health disorders.
    In 2014 Robert Griffin III (RG3) entered a post-game press conference wearing a shirt that said "Know Jesus Know Peace" but was forced to turn it inside out by an NFL uniform inspector before speaking at the podium.
    In 2015 DeAngelo Williams was fined for wearing "Find the Cure" eye black for breast cancer awareness.
    In 2015 William Gay was fined for wearing purple cleats to raise awareness for domestic violence. (Not that the NFL has a domestic violence problem...)
    In 2016 the NFL prevented the Dallas Cowboys from wearing a decal on their helmet in honor of 5 Dallas Police officers killed in the line of duty.
    In 2016 the NFL threatened to fine players who wanted to wear cleats to commemorate the 15th anniversary of 9/11.

History has clearly illustrated the NFL has taken a position AGAINST actions by NFL players which demonstrate RESPECT for God, social causes such as mental health, cancer, domestic violence, for cops killed arbitrarily for being cops, or for the Memory of 9/11. I and many others find this position really frigging irritating.
Now, all of a sudden, the NFL seems to be greatly concerned about free speech and expression. Now, they will allow demonstrations of DISRESPECT for our National Flag and the National Anthem, if it will help mollify a particular Group and its supporters.
This is what the NFL has shown itself to be, ergo the discontent.
Finally, does anybody want to remember that Kaepernick was benched for his crappy play before all this started?


[First] You’re 100% correct, Amendment #1 concerns the G’s abridgment of free speech. But, the G is abridging free speech if they coerce or conspire with the NFL to abridge free speech of its players. The NFL would probably be a nominal defendant in such an action, unless as argued in previous post, the NFL is considered a governmental unit with regard to free speech.

[Second] Wrong! An employer forcing you to chicken cluck or Anthem stand is the EXACT same thing in the subject context. The only difference is YOUR PERCEPTION that one is appropriate, and one is not. If an employer can make you stand for the Anthem, they can make you cluck like a chicken or pledge allegiance to Kim. The nationalistic biases need to be removed to see the issue with clarity. Employers are not allowed to arbitrarily force an employee do things that are not job related, even if it’s thought to be a good thing; unless it was discussed at hire. Whether the behavior is a “social norm” is categorically irrelevant.

[Third] Again, nationalistic biases must be stuffed. It is a mutually exclusive logical impossibility for one to disrespect our Flag or Anthem while peacefully protesting inappropriate Governmental behavior [Even if the protestor is wrong about the issue]!

One possesses the right not to exercise; but by doing so, they lose the right to claim they’ve achieved max fitness. Likewise, one has the right to opine that Kaepernick’s protest is “disrespectful to the Flag/Anthem.” But by doing so, they place themselves at war with the US Constitution because they’re assigning a value to our Flag/Anthem inconsistent with American Values and Law. They’re converting the US Flag/Anthem into, for example, the N. Korean Flag/Anthem. This opinion is taking a position of hostility to the concepts of American freedom and liberty; they are advocating for despotism.

Intolerance of Kaepernick’s protests prove either ignorance for or hostility toward our Nation’s values and by association disgrace the Anthem and Flag. So, he kneels for the Anthem, it doesn’t change the football watching experience the slightest bit, HTF does this rankle anyone? It’s not like he’s running onto the field naked delaying the game.

The thing totally missed about Kaepernick is he is not acting affirmatively, he’s acting passively. Now if he’s passive during a snap, this is a problem because his job requires him to act a certain way on snap. But, he’s passively kneeling when it was not required of him to stand. If the NFL can make him stand at a point in time that is not required; they can make him flap his arms like a bird or cluck like a chicken.

Not 100% informed on the Tebow praying before a game, I remember the issue being about him praying between plays. And the rest of the stuff was about uniform violations. IMHO, each of these restrictions fall under the goose-gander principle, which considers if you allow 1 guy to do something what happens if all 126 players do it. 1 guy kneeling for the anthem is no different than 126 doing it. If one guy can wear a patch and change his shoe color, imagine if one wears a 3’ by 5’ patch or 40 patches or if 126 guys wear different colors of shoes and socks. The easiest way to enforce a rule and prevent the slippery slope is to prohibit behaviors 100% and perhaps only allow well defined and publicized exceptions.

[Lastly] Not sure why anyone would dump on Kaepernick’s play. He was never close to elite, that’s why he got a pay-as-you-go 2nd contract. But, it is now incontrovertible, the proof is out, he’s a starting NFL QB [Florio, BTW an attorney, said scouting reports of several teams obtained in discovery in the collusion case indicate that Kaepernick was viewed a starting QB]. And everyone here knows he could have started for several teams at various points last year, including GB, and been a back-up on at least 25.

But then, oh wait, this is where the baggage baggage baggage bullshyte enters the pic. Of course, never a god damn fact placed in context. And what the hell does this BS drivel mean? That every NFL player is an absolute choir boy, and the moment they get baggage that no NFL gives them a chance to work? WTF, and I mean WTF are they thinking? There’s hundreds of guys that have much more baggage than Kaepernick and are not considered starter/solid back-up material like Kaepernick. My god Titus Young, Aldon Smith were INSANE and SUCKED or sucked for multiple years and still got chances to work. 6’6 330 Jonathan Martin showed nothing felt bullied and left camp, really? His supposed bullier got suspended and BOTH got more opportunities. There are 100s of guys that were much worse than Kaepernick or Reid that got 2, 3, 10 chances for drugs, PEDs, beating wives, punching-out mates and coaches, sleeping with teammates wives, etc., etc., etc. Hell, if Hernandez were alive and Trump pardoned him, a serial killer would be in a god damn OTA this week.

Since it otherwise makes no sense, this baggage must be the same as Jackie Robinson’s 1947 “baggage!” Jackie’s “baggage” included:

Dixie Walker Brooklyn’s best position [CF] player [1946 #2 in MVP voting to Stan Musial] and very popular player circulated a petition to keep Robinson out in 1947-he had to be traded after ’47 season for a couple of youngsters.

Kirby Higbe, Brooklyn’s best pitcher by far in 1946, refused to play w/ Robinson on the field and was dealt 2 weeks into the season for cash.

White fans organized a boycott, successfully keeping over 20K White fans away on opening day; this was offset by 10K Blacks that come to their first game wearing their Sunday’s best clothes.
But, Branch Rickey said, “eff-off” to all of this “baggage.” There ain’t a single Branch Rickey in the NFL today; just a group of sociopathic cowards. If we replayed the Dodgers’ 1947 season today, would it be better or worse for Jackie?

Interestingly in his autobiography Robinson said, “I Cannot Stand and Sing the Anthem. I Cannot Salute the Flag…[because] I know that I am a black man in a white world." The parallels to Kaepernick are many.

Quasi-random Factoids:

The first Black baseball player was not Jackie Robinson, it was Bill White [Ironic isn’t it?], but he was biracial and passed himself off as White [he played 1 game in 1879]. The first admitted Black player was Moses Fleetwood Walker [“Fleet”]. He played in 1884 for the Toledo Blue Stockings; he was joined later that year by his brother Weldy, who only played in 6 games. Fleet was a catcher and pitchers wouldn’t take signs from a Black guy so Fleet never knew what pitch was coming. And catchers of the day did not wear much protective gear; so whiole catching Fleet routinely had the crap beat out of him by the pitched ball.

In a game in Louisville, Walker was physically chased off the field by fans. And Toledo received the following letter in advance of a game in Richmond, “Dear Sir: We, the undersigned, do hereby warn you not to put up Walker, the Negro catcher, the days you play in Richmond, as we could mention the names of 75 determined men who have sworn to mob Walker if he comes on the ground in a suit. We hope you will listen to our words of warning so there will be no trouble, and if you do not, there certainly will be. We only write this to prevent much bloodshed, as you alone can prevent.” Fleet didn’t play in Richmond! After the season the Owners made a “Gentleman’s Agreement” that there’d be no crying or Blacks in baseball.
KRK  
#33 Posted : Thursday, June 14, 2018 5:50:09 PM(UTC)
Barfarn,

Sorry, I am not great at copying posts, so if I goof it up, apologies

You asserted...
[Second] Wrong! An employer forcing you to chicken cluck or Anthem stand is the EXACT same thing in the subject context. The only difference is YOUR PERCEPTION that one is appropriate, and one is not. If an employer can make you stand for the Anthem, they can make you cluck like a chicken or pledge allegiance to Kim.

I would respectfully submit that you are incorrect. When you are on the job, the employer can dictate your behavior. Your recourse is to find another job.

Your further asserted, "Intolerance of Kaepernick’s protests prove either ignorance for or hostility toward our Nation’s values and by association disgrace the Anthem and Flag". Again, I disagree. I just don't want to see anyone's political views when I am tuning in for entertainment.

Third, I don't know why you assume my (or anyone else's) objection to Kaepernick is racist. Before he was benched he was missing wide open receivers. More to the point, if he was Puerto Rican protesting our lousy response to a hurricane, I wouldn't want to see it. If he was Chinese or white protesting reverse discrimination in university admittance programs, I wouldn't want to see it. I DON'T GIVE A RIP WHAT ANY OF THEIR POLITICAL VIEW ARE.. I am tuning in to watch football and be entertained. During that period of time, I want to escape from politics and the world.

B, again, I admire your passion, but in deference to my sanity, and again because I go to this site to escape the mundane, this will be my last post on the subject.
Zero2Cool  
#34 Posted : Friday, June 15, 2018 5:06:34 AM(UTC)
I like "Barfarn" outside the norm thinking, (they remind me of uffda in a way which is what I admired about him on this site) but holy shit balls! Can we get a summary?? :D
wpr  
#35 Posted : Friday, June 15, 2018 7:43:31 AM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
I like "Barfarn" outside the norm thinking, (they remind me of uffda in a way which is what I admired about him on this site) but holy shit balls! Can we get a summary?? :D


He did. He used "G" instead of"Government". Tada!
Cheesey  
#36 Posted : Friday, June 15, 2018 5:31:01 PM(UTC)
Some people think that if you post super long rambling posts, that proves you are right, or are smarter then everyone.
I think one of the best posts in this thread was the last one by KRK. He was right to the point with valid reasoning, and was right in all he said.
Pack93z  
#37 Posted : Wednesday, August 22, 2018 10:05:12 AM(UTC)
I can't say I endorse the protest during the anthem, the choice of medium itself.

But I cannot say how I feel better than this.

Watch here


Big picture... not just reacting to them kneeling at the anthem itself.

BTW.. this is how I want my leaders to talk about the issue this country faces.. not the normal bullshit spewed by both parties in the government(G) today.
DarkaneRules  
#38 Posted : Wednesday, August 22, 2018 10:22:22 AM(UTC)
Dude nailed it.
Zero2Cool  
#39 Posted : Wednesday, August 22, 2018 10:31:34 AM(UTC)
I think this was why people were saying it was disrespectful to the flag and our Country.

Colin Kaepernick: “I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses Black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder.”

Late September 2017 our President changed the narrative. Very few were kneeling or raising fist during the anthem and it wasn't front page news anymore. Then it became Us vs the President, admitted by several players, Julius Thomas comes to mind. He felt he had to respond to the President.


I have had several debates/discussions with those who are adamant that those who are not standing during the anthem are disrespecting our Country. When I ask if they stand at home when it's aired on TV, do you stand? They say no, that's different. I ask when you're at an event and have to go to bathroom or get concessions during the anthem, do you stand? They say no, that's different.

The point being, the angst isn't coming solely from people not standing during the anthem. No. It is more of the who is not standing during the anthem. Players who earn six, seven or more figures annually. I say this confidently because at numerous events I see people not standing during the anthem and when you gesture to them they blow you off or give you a dirty look. I am willing to bet they are the same squeaky wheels saying NFL players should get the hell out of our Country if they won't stand during the anthem.

And also a huge part is just being self pedestal lifting hypocrites.
Cheesey  
#40 Posted : Wednesday, August 22, 2018 10:33:20 AM(UTC)
Here’s where that video differs from what the protest is about.
The freedom riders, Rosa Parks, the people at the counter, and so on, were all innocent people fighting for the rights they DESERVE as Americans.
They didn’t run from cops when pulled over at a traffic stop, or pull a weapon on cops, or refuse to do what the police tell them to do. As I have stated over and over, the vast majority of people killed by police ended up that way because of something illegal they themselves did. NOT basic civil rights.
Check the cases and that is what you will see in almost all of them.
Yes,there are rare cases where a cop is at fault and someone dies. And those should be prosecuted.
Teach your children to respect the law and those police that have a hard enough job without expecting cops to just let people do whatever they want because if the color of their skin.
Use common sense and this whole “problem” would disappear.
Why shouldn’t those pulled over be expected to do what I was taught to do when pulled over? Do what the cop tells you to do, and you won’t end up in worse trouble or dead.
Is that really asking too much of people???
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