DarkaneRules
5 years ago
I think taking care of our veterans should be more of a priority for the administration, than getting into Twitter fights with athletes.
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
Cheesey
5 years ago

I think taking care of our veterans should be more of a priority for the administration, than getting into Twitter fights with athletes.

Originally Posted by: DarkaneRules 



I think they can do both. Arnt they supposed to have freedom of speach too?
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Zero2Cool
5 years ago

I think they can do both. Arnt they supposed to have freedom of speach too?

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



What does Freedom of Speech  mean ?
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Nonstopdrivel
5 years ago

Perhaps, but the flyovers, the flag waving, card sections, and other activities, which were prominently shoved in our faces to illustrate how pro-American the league was were likely charged to the Armed Forces by the NFL.

Originally Posted by: KRK 


I'm reasonably certain the NFL doesn't charge the armed forces for most of these perks. They give away tickets for service members to attend games and passes for them to pose on the sidelines, no doubt writing it off as a promotional expense. I'd be surprised if the league or teams didn't also provide the flags and other patriotic decorations; think about the demographic they're catering to. The military may very well well pay for the card displays that show recruiting slogans. I'm not sure about that. I would hope so.

I do know for a fact that the military does not charge for the flyovers. As eyewateringly expensive as they are (when I was in the army, the Air Force supposedly charged us $85,000 per plane, per pass for airborne jumps, and there were always multiple passes; I can only imagine what a formation of fighter jets would cost), the flyovers are not deemed to pose an additional expense to the taxpayer because they're incorporated right into the routine training schedule. That is to say, the pilots, many of whom are guardsman putting in their one weekend a month, are racking up their mandatory flight hours anyway. If they weren't flying over the stadium, they'd simply be flying somewhere else. Circling aimlessly over cornfields or patrolling some military base.

Consider the men in the air and the men on the field product placement, if you will.
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Cheesey
5 years ago

What does Freedom of Speech  mean ?

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



I believe it means you are free in this country to give your opinions about things without fear of being locked up or killed. That goes for all Americans, even those people in the government.

If giving their thoughts on things gains or loses them future votes, that’s their problem.
To me, I like it, as it lets me know what/ how the person REALLY thinks, instead of having to guess what their stand is. Many politicians slant what they are saying to fit whatever group they are talking to at the time. So you never really know what they stand for.
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Zero2Cool
5 years ago

I believe it means you are free in this country to give your opinions about things without fear of being locked up or killed. That goes for all Americans, even those people in the government.

If giving their thoughts on things gains or loses them future votes, that’s their problem.
To me, I like it, as it lets me know what/ how the person REALLY thinks, instead of having to guess what their stand is. Many politicians slant what they are saying to fit whatever group they are talking to at the time. So you never really know what they stand for.

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



I asked because I wasn't sure I was clear on it and researched it again myself. I included to links of sources in my previous reply.

Freedom of speech, Right, as stated in the 1st and 14th Amendments to the Constitution of the United States, to express information, ideas, and opinions free of government restrictions based on content.

That makes me believe that I can say "I hate Trump" without worry the Government is going to imprison me.

More reading of our Rights, I get the impression I can protest while I am at work, however, my employer has the Right to terminate my employment.

Right's go both ways.


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wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
5 years ago

I'm reasonably certain the NFL doesn't charge the armed forces for most of these perks. They give away tickets for service members to attend games and passes for them to pose on the sidelines, no doubt writing it off as a promotional expense. I'd be surprised if the league or teams didn't also provide the flags and other patriotic decorations; think about the demographic they're catering to. The military may very well well pay for the card displays that show recruiting slogans. I'm not sure about that. I would hope so.

I do know for a fact that the military does not charge for the flyovers. As eyewateringly expensive as they are (when I was in the army, the Air Force supposedly charged us $85,000 per plane, per pass for airborne jumps, and there were always multiple passes; I can only imagine what a formation of fighter jets would cost), the flyovers are not deemed to pose an additional expense to the taxpayer because they're incorporated right into the routine training schedule. That is to say, the pilots, many of whom are guardsman putting in their one weekend a month, are racking up their mandatory flight hours anyway. If they weren't flying over the stadium, they'd simply be flying somewhere else. Circling aimlessly over cornfields or patrolling some military base.

Consider the men in the air and the men on the field product placement, if you will.

Originally Posted by: Nonstopdrivel 



No the teams (at least some of them) did charge the military for appearances. GB was one of the teams that charged. They weren't the worst offender but they did pick up a few hundred thousand for the privilege. NFL Inc not the teams refunded the money  only after it came out and became an embarrassment. IIR corporate was repaid by lowering the end of the year payouts to those teams.

edit- found the story from 2015  that gives the dollar amounts. GB was #6 taking in $600,000. It probably wasn't just for flyovers.
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KRK
  • KRK
  • Veteran Member
5 years ago
Z and WPR....well stated...also
1. Whether its the NFL or teams charging the armed forces, to me that is a distinction without a difference, and I am still disappointed that armed forces were charged for the before game stuff.
2. Remember, the Consititution's 1st Amendment, as Z2C points out, prevents the GOVERNMENT from prohibiting speech, expression, et al., NOT an employer, or for that matter, an on-line service like twitter or facebook.
In Luce tua Videmus Lucem KRK
Porforis
5 years ago
This is akin to the pledge of allegiance in schools to me.

There was a time in American history where this pledge didn't exist

There was a time in American history where this pledge didn't exist as mandatory in schools

America survived, people managed to be patriotic and honor their country when not mandated to do so. The only difference in my mind here, is that with the pledge in school, you are dealing with children in an environment where they are being taught to learn. In the NFL with the national anthem - It's a football game with grown-ass adults.

I would just say "Just keep the players in the locker room" because hell, that's exactly what happened up until 2009 for primetime games and somehow the country didn't devolve into chaos and players weren't going out burning flags and committing treason but somehow I doubt most people would accept this.

The NFL should get rid of the anthem and use all of the saved money involved to support wounded veterans and other veteran-related causes. If you care that much about America that you're enraged when someone kneels during the anthem then I'd think you'd care enough to want to make actual change above symbolic gestures. By forcing grown-ass adults to participate in the anthem you're politicizing it as much as they are.
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
5 years ago
Freedom of speech also let's us sit around and discuss how wrong "Those People" are.

For those who don't know it, "Those People" was the term General Robert E. Lee used when speaking of the Union army.
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Zero2Cool (21h) : Former #Packers TE Josiah Deguara is signing a 1-year deal with the Jaguars, per source.
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Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : NFL 2024 gonna start Sept 5th isn't it???
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : Ugh... kids these days!
dfosterf (27-Mar) : I'm gonna go do some more mock draft hell instead 🤪
Zero2Cool (27-Mar) : Did we do one of those prediction threads yet for 2024 season?
dfosterf (27-Mar) : In my city, they are playing the nimby game, in order to keep some railroad tracks vs. 2 professional sports teams and a concert venue.
dfosterf (27-Mar) : And/Or a city council, of which I haven't seen a good one in a very long time
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buckeyepackfan (26-Mar) : Packers halt scheduled 80mil upgrade of stadium until lease agreement talks are restarted
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : City of Green Bay puts Packers' Lambeau Field lease talks on hold
buckeyepackfan (26-Mar) : Packers 1 of 3 teams to vote no on new kickoff rule.
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Packers sign another Kicker
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Lengthy explanation at PFF if you click the link
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Kickoff rules officially changed.ngthy explan
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : lol
Cheesey (26-Mar) : 2009? No thanks! One open heart surgery is enough!
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Good for you!
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Yes. That's the one.
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Is that "Lady Dugan" per chance?
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Crystal?
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Please refresh my memory
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Alan posts. Crystal back in my life. It's 2009 all over again! Lol
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Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Gutekunst said early stages of Jordan Love contract being discussed.
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Shouldn't be penalized cuz official screwed up
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Yeah, challenge until you are incorrect twice.
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : Fining them is the goal, per the people who made the rule anyway.
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Still waiting on the kickoff rule changes. Did hear yesterday that the touchback proposal will now be the 30 yard line, not the 35
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Probably speed of game issues with your proposal
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beast (25-Mar) : I think when it comes to Challenges should get two strikes, so unlimited challenges as long as they keep winning them, but 2 wrong then done
dfosterf (25-Mar) : Still subject to the fines etc
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