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Zero2Cool  
#21 Posted : Thursday, September 13, 2018 4:55:32 AM(UTC)
Smokey said: Go to Quoted Post
As ever, it never ceases to amaze me how many post demonstrate just how tunnel vision can cause one to not see what so many others do see. Neither Graham nor Adams nor Williams or any other Packer is capable of elevating their play above average without Rodgers. The 2017 season is proof that GB is one dimensional and is lost without Aaron Rodgers playing QB. He can raise the on field level of play of players like Graham and others , yet without him the Packers are no better than a 24th ranked team.

Don;t believe it, watch as Kizer leads the Packers against the Vikings this Sunday. Shrug


Jimmy Graham was tied for TD's last season. Hardly average.
Davante Adams put up pretty damn good numbers, even with Brett Hundley. In fact, he's the only WR that continued to show up game in and game out.
Jamaal Williams was good in pass protection and churned out good yards, but he didn't have any big sexy runs like Aaron Jones.

You are spot on, the Packers are not even a .500 team without Aaron Rodgers. I would dare to believe most teams with one of the top or even elite QB's would falter without their leader as well. Patriots are the only team I would be willing to put money on getting to or exceeding .500.

But, this is why QB's are paid so much. This is why they are called the leaders. So, saying the team is garbage without its unquestioned leader, that's kind of obvious.

Updated by user Thursday, September 13, 2018 7:43:11 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Cheesey  
#22 Posted : Thursday, September 13, 2018 7:26:49 AM(UTC)
True dat. The majority of teams that lose their starting QB will have a huge drop off to their backup QB.
And it’s especially huge in our case.
steveishere  
#23 Posted : Thursday, September 13, 2018 7:44:15 AM(UTC)
Smokey said: Go to Quoted Post
As ever, it never ceases to amaze me how many post demonstrate just how tunnel vision can cause one to not see what so many others do see. Neither Graham nor Adams nor Williams or any other Packer is capable of elevating their play above average without Rodgers. The 2017 season is proof that GB is one dimensional and is lost without Aaron Rodgers playing QB. He can raise the on field level of play of players like Graham and others , yet without him the Packers are no better than a 24th ranked team.

Don;t believe it, watch as Kizer leads the Packers against the Vikings this Sunday. Shrug


Adams averaged 68 yards per game and scored 5 TD in 8 games with Hundley as his QB. Those averages would make him 10th in yards and 2nd in TDs over a full season... with one of the worst starting QBs in the entire league last year.
Zero2Cool  
#24 Posted : Friday, September 14, 2018 5:05:46 AM(UTC)
Nonstopdrivel  
#25 Posted : Friday, September 14, 2018 8:07:23 AM(UTC)
steveishere said: Go to Quoted Post
Adams averaged 68 yards per game and scored 5 TD in 8 games with Hundley as his QB. Those averages would make him 10th in yards and 2nd in TDs over a full season... with one of the worst starting QBs in the entire league last year.


That sounds great at first glance -- but it could simply indicate that Hundley developed tunnel vision and focused on Adams to the exclusion of other targets. If you add up all of the touchdowns and yards accumulated by Green Bay receivers over that span, how do the numbers compare to the rest of the league?
Dulak  
#26 Posted : Friday, September 14, 2018 8:38:05 AM(UTC)
Nonstopdrivel said: Go to Quoted Post
That sounds great at first glance -- but it could simply indicate that Hundley developed tunnel vision and focused on Adams to the exclusion of other targets. If you add up all of the touchdowns and yards accumulated by Green Bay receivers over that span, how do the numbers compare to the rest of the league?


I agree - jordy was targeted much less compared to adams and this was part of the argument of why jordy sucks and why we 'needed' to trade him - somehow we needed to discount the previous year with rodgers and him getting 14 TDs.


Zero2Cool  
#27 Posted : Friday, September 14, 2018 8:56:16 AM(UTC)
Nonstopdrivel said: Go to Quoted Post
That sounds great at first glance -- but it could simply indicate that Hundley developed tunnel vision and focused on Adams to the exclusion of other targets. If you add up all of the touchdowns and yards accumulated by Green Bay receivers over that span, how do the numbers compare to the rest of the league?

So, you're saying Hundley developed tunnel vision towards Adams and teams still couldn't stop it?


Dulak said: Go to Quoted Post
I agree - jordy was targeted much less compared to adams and this was part of the argument of why jordy sucks and why we 'needed' to trade him - somehow we needed to discount the previous year with rodgers and him getting 14 TDs.


Or maybe Adams was targeted more because he was open more? If you're saying we shouldn't cast away Jordy because he and Hundley didn't have good chemistry, but we should have kept Jordy because he has chemistry with Rodgers, I'd get that, but truth is, Jordy just didn't get open as frequently as Adams. I didn't review every snap of every game, but the ones I watched, Adams was consistently getting off the line quick and getting open. Jordy was not.

Release Jordy allowed us to get Jimmy Graham and Mohamed Wilkerson. And if game one is any indication of what we can expect from Gernomio Allison, that's a win all on fronts. I hoped (and expected) Jordy would have had a big day in his game one.
nerdmann  
#28 Posted : Friday, September 14, 2018 12:47:45 PM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
So, you're saying Hundley developed tunnel vision towards Adams and teams still couldn't stop it?




Or maybe Adams was targeted more because he was open more? If you're saying we shouldn't cast away Jordy because he and Hundley didn't have good chemistry, but we should have kept Jordy because he has chemistry with Rodgers, I'd get that, but truth is, Jordy just didn't get open as frequently as Adams. I didn't review every snap of every game, but the ones I watched, Adams was consistently getting off the line quick and getting open. Jordy was not.

Release Jordy allowed us to get Jimmy Graham and Mohamed Wilkerson. And if game one is any indication of what we can expect from Gernomio Allison, that's a win all on fronts. I hoped (and expected) Jordy would have had a big day in his game one.


Hundley and Adams worked together quite a bit on their own, outside of practice.
Smokey  
#29 Posted : Friday, September 14, 2018 4:13:11 PM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post

Or maybe Adams was targeted more because he was open more? If you're saying we shouldn't cast away Jordy because he and Hundley didn't have good chemistry, but we should have kept Jordy because he has chemistry with Rodgers, I'd get that, but truth is, Jordy just didn't get open as frequently as Adams. I didn't review every snap of every game, but the ones I watched, Adams was consistently getting off the line quick and getting open. Jordy was not.


Or in the absence of Rodgers, Adams was GB's best offensive asset, McCarthy knew it, and went to that well as often as he dared to try to give the Packers their best chance to deliver points following the loss of #12.
Also it's no great mystery that the new GM, along with the HC, immediately put sentiment aside and addressed player changes as well as draft picks that actually targeted the needs of the team. I foresee this trend continuing into the next off season. IMO, LBs/OTs/and a RB will top GB's shopping list following this 2018 season.

Two Cents
Barfarn  
#30 Posted : Saturday, September 15, 2018 8:40:47 PM(UTC)
wpr said: Go to Quoted Post
Sorry I am using the official stats not your subjective opinion.


Some seek ultimate truth, others are paralyzed by the “truth” Elias shoves in their face LOL.

Graham ended up 2 yards in front of Adams in the center of field; ergo, we know 1 of the 2 ran a wrong route. If a very hot and accurate Rodgers was targeting Graham, who is new to system and a notoriously bad route runner, he threw the ball way too high, Graham with a well- timed leap could only get his finger tips on the ball. Whereas Adams, a skilled route runner starting his 53rd game in 5th season in the system, would have been hit in stride for TD. It is not an opinion machumbo; it is a FACT that Rodgers was targeting Adams and Graham cost us 4 points. Elias got that one WRONG! You should consider WATCHING the GAME, not the stat sheet, when forming your opinions

Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post


I like Nagler, think he’s quite sharp. But, if he charted each of Jimmy’s 59 plays he’d be embarrassed to have said this. He touted the Graham signing and must be suffering from major confirmation bias. Of 59 snaps, there were only 5-6 where Graham was chipped by a DLman. He was doubled twice and given extra attention on 3 other plays. The rest of the pass plays he was single covered man by a LB, S or CB and he was unable to get separation from any of them except on the 7 yard completion on Kendricks’ rub. Note: there were three 3rd and longs where he ran very short curls or outs and was given a large cushion.

Smokey said: Go to Quoted Post
As ever, it never ceases to amaze me how many post demonstrate just how tunnel vision can cause one to not see what so many others do see. Neither Graham nor Adams nor Williams or any other Packer is capable of elevating their play above average without Rodgers. The 2017 season is proof that GB is one dimensional and is lost without Aaron Rodgers playing QB. He can raise the on field level of play of players like Graham and others , yet without him the Packers are no better than a 24th ranked team.

Don;t believe it, watch as Kizer leads the Packers against the Vikings this Sunday. Shrug


Smokey, I’d argue TEs “elevating their play” has absolutely NOTHING to do with the QB! Their ability to block, get off a jam, get separation and/or run the correct route at a bad, good or great level can be, should be and is evaluated by GB staff even if they don’t get the ball. Now, elevating their statistical output is 100% dependent on QBs ability to deliver the ball. And you are right with Rodgers play in the first 4 series was going to kill everyone’s statistical output.

Graham sucks, he ran at least 3 wrong routes:
• His non-target stated above.

• On the Rodgers sack for -10 and fumble recovered by Linsley. It was 1st and 10, 7:11 1Q. Rodgers was targeting Graham (1)/Adams (2) left. Graham was in slot and Adams ran deep. Pre-snap Trevathan came from his ILB to play over Graham. Trevathan made no attempt to jam Graham and at the snap he took a step in and sprinted toward center of field to take away the Dig [a safety had him over the top]. Maybe GB changed their offense to accommodate Graham’s dumbness; but under the old system Graham runs an out when a LB or safety takes away the Dig. If Graham runs an out and Rodgers’ head is right; it’s 2nd and 3-4 instead of 2nd and 20 [plus maybe a fumble that did in this case occur, plus maybe a QB injury].

• On the play where Rodgers was injured. Graham lined up left four Bears rushed and six dropped well behind the 1st down, except Kwiatkowski who of 7-8 yards deep on right. Graham was primary target; but he ran right to the coverage. The guy’s a moron.

At 3Q :25 Graham committed a PI penalty that wasn’t called. GB ran a WR screen to G-Mo and Graham started blocking 3 yards downfield well before ball arrived. The good news is his blocking on G-Mo’s CB was quite effective, Amos covering Graham made a great play to limit the gain to 1 yard.

The rest of his blocking was a disgrace. 2nd Q, 14:11 GB line3d up 3 TEs right and ran right, Graham needed to block the slot CB [Callahan], he amazingly couldnt move or stop a CB from pursuing the ball. He was assigned to perform 5 seal blocks on DEs, which is an e-z block to perform. He did an average job on Mack [at 2nd Q, 6:44] and #99 [at 3Q 6:28]. He got pushed around like a 5th grader by Floyd at 2Q 3:48 and 3Q 8:38 and Mack at 3Q 1:54.

At 2Q, 6:08, Williams follows Graham inside, Graham ‘hits” Trevathan with the force of a tennis ball Traveathan unaffected held his ground and help make tackle.

I noticed while watching snaps in slow-mo that Graham is often the last to move after the snap. This puts him at a great disadvantage when trying to block, get off jams or run routes on time. Hopefully, it's a reaction to him not being confident in the snap count and it will improve with familiarity.

This is just one game. But, last year ¾ of Graham’s yards and half his catches came on Russell Wilson scrambles. Graham was just about worthless working within the framework of the offense; if that same Graham shows up this year, he will be worthless. Notwithstanding that he may have some games with good stats after catching 2-3 20+ yarders on Aaron Rodgers scrambles; his value to Winning will be close to worthless.
nerdmann  
#31 Posted : Sunday, September 16, 2018 1:54:31 PM(UTC)
Jimmy looked good today, got involved. Had a long pass robbed from him on an uncalled DPI. Kept his head in the game, kept fighting hard, played well.

Dude still has it.
gbguy20  
#32 Posted : Sunday, September 16, 2018 1:56:03 PM(UTC)
dude looks much slower than expected but runs right by people still.....deceptive
Nonstopdrivel  
#33 Posted : Sunday, September 16, 2018 2:00:24 PM(UTC)
People weren't lying when they said he can't block, though. He looked like he was playing pat-a-cake with defenders out there.
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