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Cheesey  
#21 Posted : Wednesday, November 7, 2018 2:33:21 PM(UTC)
I agree with beast. There is no proof that Rodgers is defying McCarthy.
As was also said in this thread, Rodgers has been carrying this team on his back for years.
He’s been injured the last several years, and has still tried to play up to his high expectations. But he hasn’t had the time in the pocket that he has had in the past, and can’t evade the D like he could before.
He has played his butt off, but he can’t do it alone anymore . He has NOT (as some claim) been just sitting back because he got his payday. Look at his reaction when Montgomery fumbled. Did Aaron Rodgers look like a guy that didn’t care? He could have said he was too injured to play when his knee got hurt in game one. Did he do that?
NOPE. He didn’t miss even one game, or even the second half of the Bears game.
The guy needs some HELP in order to win games.
DoddPower  
#22 Posted : Wednesday, November 7, 2018 2:47:41 PM(UTC)
Porforis said: Go to Quoted Post
In that case we should bench literally everyone.


Exactly. As bad as Rodgers is playing, most the rest of the team is playing even worse. Let's just bench most the team!

Rodgers isn't getting benched if reasonably healthy. That's a silly idea. Rodgers needs to play better, he's said so multiple times this season. But he also needs more help. More talent, better schemes, better defense, and better coaching. The organization has grown stale. I don't think anything will get fixed until the house is cleaned. I can't believe they didn't do that this off season. They basically wasted a season by doing so. If you're going to do that, they might as well have tanked for better draft picks.

nerdmann  
#23 Posted : Wednesday, November 7, 2018 4:54:10 PM(UTC)
Porforis said: Go to Quoted Post
In that case we should bench literally everyone.

For whatever reason you have this idea in your head that everyone thinks that Aaron Rodgers is perfect and any offensive issues are 0% his fault. This is completely untrue and I would challenge you to point out a single person that doesn't criticize AR.

People saying that Mike McCarthy needs to go because of offensive issues aren't saying that Aaron Rodgers holds none of the blame

People getting pissed at Montgomery aren't saying that Rodgers holds no blame for the loss as if he was playing at a high level we would have been up enough that it wouldn't have been an issue.

You have this idea in your head and literally any positive comment about Rodgers is interpreted as hero worship and any negative comment about McCarthy, WRs, TEs, RBs, or the line is seen as trying to blame anyone but Rodgers.

I'm not saying that benching Rodgers is ludicrous. I'm saying that this idea that fans, especially on this site where we generally avoid being hysterical and complete and utter homers, blindly treat Rodgers like some sort of god is somewhere between completely incorrect and utterly offensive.


Those are all separate arguments. My main point is that Aaron is being insubordinate.

Then again if Mike is ok with that, it's just another reason to show him the door. And another reason for his ongoing failures week after week.
nerdmann  
#24 Posted : Wednesday, November 7, 2018 4:55:37 PM(UTC)
yooperfan said: Go to Quoted Post
The only good thing that could come from benching Rodgers in favor of Kizer would be that we would improve our draft position.
If that was done the Green Bay Packers would be the laughing stock of the NFL.
Don't bench Rodgers, fire McCarthy now and see what can happen in the bottom end of the season.
As it stands,Rodgers,McCarthy and our offense is a hot mess right now.
As it stands Rodgers is on track to have his lowest competition percentage rating since 2008.
I think it's time to fire the play caller now and see how the balance of the season shakes out.
As things stand the Green Bay Packers aren't going anywhere anyway.


We could get rid of Mike anytime. But Aaron would just pull rank on the NEXT guy. That's my point.
nerdmann  
#25 Posted : Wednesday, November 7, 2018 4:57:37 PM(UTC)
beast said: Go to Quoted Post
All that is great... but you completely and totally avoided my questions....

You claim Rodgers is openly defying the coaches....

I asked for your proof... and all you got is that he doesn't play within the system... which is absolutely nothing as far as proof of openly defying....

Do we even have the basic open proof of Mike McCarthy asking Rodgers to do what you want? I don't think we do...

So this is Rodgers openly defying YOU... not the coaches... UNLESS... are you one of the Packers coaches?


Everyone knows it. It was the first thing brought up on the postgame show this past week. It's been a topic of discussion on all the podcasts.
nerdmann  
#26 Posted : Wednesday, November 7, 2018 4:58:44 PM(UTC)
Cheesey said: Go to Quoted Post
I agree with beast. There is no proof that Rodgers is defying McCarthy.
As was also said in this thread, Rodgers has been carrying this team on his back for years.
He’s been injured the last several years, and has still tried to play up to his high expectations. But he hasn’t had the time in the pocket that he has had in the past, and can’t evade the D like he could before.
He has played his butt off, but he can’t do it alone anymore . He has NOT (as some claim) been just sitting back because he got his payday. Look at his reaction when Montgomery fumbled. Did Aaron Rodgers look like a guy that didn’t care? He could have said he was too injured to play when his knee got hurt in game one. Did he do that?
NOPE. He didn’t miss even one game, or even the second half of the Bears game.
The guy needs some HELP in order to win games.


Aaron cares very much. About his stats and his place in the all time record books.
Nonstopdrivel  
#27 Posted : Wednesday, November 7, 2018 5:03:07 PM(UTC)
I highly doubt Rodgers cares much about his place in the record books. He simply got too late a start and almost certainly won't play long enough to ever make a serious run at any of the major career passing records. The only notable record he's likely to retain is career passer rating, and after this year, he might even start looking vulnerable on that front. He's likely to also finish with the best TD:INT ratio in history, but who pays attention to that?
bboystyle  
#28 Posted : Wednesday, November 7, 2018 5:41:18 PM(UTC)
nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
Everyone knows it. It was the first thing brought up on the postgame show this past week. It's been a topic of discussion on all the podcasts.


Speculation doesnt mean facts. Im sure Rodgers doesnt think hes above the team and he is his biggest critic. He places the blame where it belongs when its needed. Whems hes off, he says it. When the rest of the team is off, he says it. When Mike McCarthy cant game plan correctly, he mentions it in a nice way. Thats why hes labled a diva because he places blame where it belongs instead of giving the same old generic BS that Mike McCarthy spits.

I rather have a qb like that then a yes man. Rodgers earned the right to call out the flaws of this team. Had it not been for him, we would be the Browns of the NFC.
Porforis  
#29 Posted : Wednesday, November 7, 2018 5:50:49 PM(UTC)
nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
Those are all separate arguments. My main point is that Aaron is being insubordinate.


That's definitely a conversation topic, my main issue is that you repeatedly state this as fact without strong supporting evidence to back it up. I'm not so much denying that this is the case, as I'm saying you really have no evidence of it besides some cherry picked statements by a player or coach (and ignoring all of the statements from other players and coaches to the contrary) or your own interpretation of what you think the called plays are versus what Aaron is running (as well as any knowledge of cases where Aaron has the green light to change things at the line depending on reads).

nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
Then again if Mike is ok with that, it's just another reason to show him the door. And another reason for his ongoing failures week after week.


If he's okay with outright insubordination, I agree with this. If he's okay with his quarterback running a different play than he called if he sees a matchup he can exploit, that's basic coaching for veteran quarterbacks. QBs do that constantly.

nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
Everyone knows it. It was the first thing brought up on the postgame show this past week. It's been a topic of discussion on all the podcasts.


Everyone doesn't know it which is why the vast majority of people are disagreeing with you on this point.

nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
Aaron cares very much. About his stats and his place in the all time record books.


Of course he does. Any player that spouts the "I only care about my team" nonsense that claims to not dream of putting up big numbers and ending up in the hall of fame is lying. What you MEAN to say is "Aaron cares so much about his stats that he's willing to blow games to try to pad his stats" which seems to run contrary to the whole "Caring about his stats" thing because well... Generally when QBs throw for a bunch of yards, have a high completion percentage, don't throw picks, and throw TDs their teams do well.

I don't see how the claim that Rodgers ignores people wide open 5-10 yards from the LOS because he wants to bomb it downfield, gets into trouble, and in seasons past would take sacks and this season throws the ball away stands up to the most basic scrutiny. These are actions that distinctly HURT his stats. If he was obsessed with his own stats he'd be throwing those 5-10 yard easy passes every single time because they're high completion percentage, he often has WRs gain an extra 5-10 yards after the catch, and they keep the chains moving which gives him MORE opportunities for yards and touchdowns.

So I really don't understand how that argument works either unless the claim is that the only stat Rodgers cares about is number of bombs downfield and he wants to be known as the all time great downfield bomber at the expense of all the other stats people actually care about.
bboystyle  
#30 Posted : Wednesday, November 7, 2018 6:01:15 PM(UTC)
Porforis said: Go to Quoted Post
That's definitely a conversation topic, my main issue is that you repeatedly state this as fact without strong supporting evidence to back it up. I'm not so much denying that this is the case, as I'm saying you really have no evidence of it besides some cherry picked statements by a player or coach (and ignoring all of the statements from other players and coaches to the contrary) or your own interpretation of what you think the called plays are versus what Aaron is running (as well as any knowledge of cases where Aaron has the green light to change things at the line depending on reads).



If he's okay with outright insubordination, I agree with this. If he's okay with his quarterback running a different play than he called if he sees a matchup he can exploit, that's basic coaching for veteran quarterbacks. QBs do that constantly.




There is no evidence of it. Matter of fact, greg jennings has went on record saying the opposite. He says brett favre used to defy Mike McCarthy when certain plays were called and they usually panned out. He said Rodgers doesnt do that and that he doesnt have much power in play calling except in the 2 min drill. Former packer players have said that Mike McCarthy has ran the same offense since 2011 and defenses know whats coming. Its the improvision of Rodgers after the snap that stops this offense from being a bottom unit.
DoddPower  
#31 Posted : Wednesday, November 7, 2018 6:34:07 PM(UTC)
nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
Aaron cares very much. About his stats and his place in the all time record books.


Yeah, this is a stupid argument. Rodgers knows that the best "stats" he could possibly accumulate are playoff and Super Bowl wins. Nothing matters more than that in many opinions. The guy wants to win, not just put up some decent passing numbers. Who cares about statistics when you don't make the playoffs?
nerdmann  
#32 Posted : Wednesday, November 7, 2018 7:24:20 PM(UTC)
DoddPower said: Go to Quoted Post
Yeah, this is a stupid argument. Rodgers knows that the best "stats" he could possibly accumulate are playoff and Super Bowl wins. Nothing matters more than that in many opinions. The guy wants to win, not just put up some decent passing numbers. Who cares about statistics when you don't make the playoffs?


Exactly. And he thinks he knows better than Mike. Just like Bert Favor thought he knew better than Ted.
beast  
#33 Posted : Wednesday, November 7, 2018 7:48:56 PM(UTC)
nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
Everyone knows it. It was the first thing brought up on the postgame show this past week. It's been a topic of discussion on all the podcasts.


If everyone knows it... then why doesn't a number of people on here know it? Because your premise is wrong... and the fact that you keep avoiding providing proof that Mike McCarthy has openly (your word) asked/demanded or hell even wanted Rodgers to play more within the system is clearly lacking...

I would even argue that the system itself is what lacking as all the isolation routes help the team with more talent/depth which isn't the Packers who seem to be missing a true #2 WR...
Cheesey  
#34 Posted : Thursday, November 8, 2018 8:35:31 AM(UTC)
Rodgers doesn’t like to throw interceptions. Why? Not because of “stat whoring”, but because he hates to lose and wants to NOT give the opponent the ball. Is that a bad thing?
Or that he wants to get as many yards as possible to score points for the team?
I can’t fault the guy for that.
He’s the main reason they won SB45, and have made the playoffs so many times.
They went 15-1 because of him. The defense is what let them down.
Rodgers watched Favre throw away games because of throwing interceptions. He learned what to do, and what NOT to do, from watching him.
nerdmann  
#35 Posted : Thursday, November 8, 2018 1:29:56 PM(UTC)
Porforis said: Go to Quoted Post

I don't see how the claim that Rodgers ignores people wide open 5-10 yards from the LOS because he wants to bomb it downfield, gets into trouble, and in seasons past would take sacks and this season throws the ball away stands up to the most basic scrutiny. These are actions that distinctly HURT his stats. If he was obsessed with his own stats he'd be throwing those 5-10 yard easy passes every single time because they're high completion percentage, he often has WRs gain an extra 5-10 yards after the catch, and they keep the chains moving which gives him MORE opportunities for yards and touchdowns.

So I really don't understand how that argument works either unless the claim is that the only stat Rodgers cares about is number of bombs downfield and he wants to be known as the all time great downfield bomber at the expense of all the other stats people actually care about.


Aaron's head is inflated to the point where he believes he can make every throw. He feels like he is better than "the system." That the system doesn't account for how AWESOME he is.
go.pack.go.  
#36 Posted : Thursday, November 8, 2018 3:37:17 PM(UTC)
nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
Aaron's head is inflated to the point where he believes he can make every throw. He feels like he is better than "the system." That the system doesn't account for how AWESOME he is.



He doesn’t feel this way. But if he did, he would be correct.
dhazer  
#37 Posted : Thursday, November 8, 2018 6:04:52 PM(UTC)
I was actually thinking about this the other day, It seems like history is repeating itself. Remember when Favre went diva after Holmgren left, he thought he could decide who the head coach would be and the players to sign. I was wondering if Rodgers was tanking to get Mike McCarthy fired or if he just lost it after breaking both collar bones. People keep wanting to claim he is the GOAT but I think he is in the area of Dan Fouts or Dan Marino who put up stats but didnt do much with his teams.
nerdmann  
#38 Posted : Thursday, November 8, 2018 6:26:09 PM(UTC)
dhazer said: Go to Quoted Post
I was actually thinking about this the other day, It seems like history is repeating itself. Remember when Favre went diva after Holmgren left, he thought he could decide who the head coach would be and the players to sign. I was wondering if Rodgers was tanking to get Mike McCarthy fired or if he just lost it after breaking both collar bones. People keep wanting to claim he is the GOAT but I think he is in the area of Dan Fouts or Dan Marino who put up stats but didnt do much with his teams.


I don't think Aaron is tanking it.

I just think he desperately wants another ring to solidify his legacy. And he thinks he knows better than everyone how to get that.
wpr  
#39 Posted : Thursday, November 8, 2018 8:33:01 PM(UTC)
Porforis said: Go to Quoted Post



If he's okay with outright insubordination, I agree with this. If he's okay with his quarterback running a different play than he called if he sees a matchup he can exploit, that's basic coaching for veteran quarterbacks. QBs do that constantly.



When I read this I think of Bart Starr and the final play of the Ice Bowl. He called one play in the huddle and ran a QB keeper instead. It worked out so he's a hero. In the internet age he would have as many people slamming him for being a selfish egomaniac glory hound as those who applauded him including Lombardi.

Updated by user Friday, November 9, 2018 7:58:07 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

nerdmann  
#40 Posted : Thursday, November 8, 2018 9:00:28 PM(UTC)
wpr said: Go to Quoted Post
When I read this I think of Bart Starr and the final play of the Ice Bowl. He called one play in the huddle and ran a QB keeper instead. It worked out so he's a hero. In the internet age he would have as many people slamming him for being a selfish egomaniac glory hound as those who applauded him including Lambeau.


Starr wasn't a crazy person, because Lombardi kept him grounded. Starr was able to objectively evaluate the situation, because his head wasn't inflated with a $100 contract and all the accolades.
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