Discussion Board
Welcome Guest! You can login or register. Login or Register.
2 Pages12>

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Zero2Cool  
#1 Posted : Thursday, December 6, 2018 8:23:27 PM(UTC)
I like Jay, but seems like we're kind of screwed from his point of view. What do you think about Jay's comments? Ignore Colin, he's looking for an angle.
gbguy20  
#2 Posted : Thursday, December 6, 2018 8:41:28 PM(UTC)
Can we get a transcript?
nerdmann  
#3 Posted : Thursday, December 6, 2018 8:55:11 PM(UTC)
I agree.

I'm not as worried about what has already gone down. My primary concern is what is going to happen going forward.
beast  
#4 Posted : Thursday, December 6, 2018 9:27:07 PM(UTC)
I don't know this, but I've always thought Jay Glazer has seemed to have a pretty good in with someone high in the Packers stuff. Like when there was something to be secretly reported by the Packers insiders... some how Glazer has come up with out of nowhere and sorta promoted Pro-Packers stuff randomly. I don't have an example in mind as it's been a while... but for some reason I've thought for a while it might be Mike McCarthy (as usually it was more coaching stuff, not scouting stuff).

But the fact that Glazer said he was texting with Mike McCarthy right after, makes me feel they have more credibility with that thought... so I wonder if Glazer and Mike McCarthy might be somewhat friends.


That being said, Glazer is absolutely right, that based on normal NFL standards, the Packers handled Mike McCarthy firing poorly.... as Glazer said, other top coaches were taken to the side and told we're going in a different direction, how do you want to handle the break... instead of just firing them. And I've read a stat (I have no idea if true or not) but the stat said Mike McCarthy is only the 2nd Super Bowl winning head coach to ever be fired mid-season (I assume that means by the team they won the Super Bowl with).

So yeah, it seems like the Packers poorly handled the firing. But I don't think that's gonna stop people from wanting the job. I think looking into the future of what they have to work with, will be a much bigger factor. Such as, do they like what they're heard about Murphy/Gute/Packers players because surely they're heard much more back channel stuff as Glazer said, than we would ever. Though this firing wouldn't help... but the future they would be in would be much more important... like how much control do they get... and are they forced to keep Pettine? (though they worked fine with the Bears head coaching search).


Though it's interesting Glazer basically said, the Packers excuse for firing Mike McCarthy is to get started on their next search is total BS.... I think he might have a great point there... UNLESS the Packers want to seriously consider Joe Philbin.



But going back to their list of things head coaches look for...
1) Owner/Stability (I might want to add GM in there too)
2) Franchise QB
3) Overall Roster

Murphy is a bit of a question mark as far as acting owner, as he's fairly new. But the Packers stability had been great... one of the teams with the least amount of head coaching turn overs. While they were talking long term with QBs... as a new head coach, you're only sure you're gonna get what 2-4 years? I think Rodgers will be able to play 2-4 more years, and Packers QBs have been fairly stable in recent decades. Overall Roster... that one is iffy, because you can look at it from multiple view points.


But overall I think the Packers would rank extremely high on the stability factors of #1 and #2... which should in theory put them in a good spot for looking for available head coaches... though like I've said, if we were gonna change, I would of changed a couple of years ago because I thought they were a lot more clearly better options that have gone elsewhere (Eagles, 49ers, Rams, Bears all got guys I thought would be very good head coaches) and now I'm not nearly as sure... though I think the OCs for the Titans, Saints and Chiefs should all be watched.
steveishere  
#5 Posted : Friday, December 7, 2018 6:10:23 AM(UTC)
I still don't get all the angst over the mid season firing. If you've decided to move on from a coach how is it more respectful to make him put in all the work and time to coach 3 or 4 more meaningless games while having to answer questions every week about if they think they'll get fired when the decision has already been made.

I also find it funny how Glazer is talking about showing respect while suggesting going behind the coaches back (back channels) to conduct a search while he's still coaching the team is somehow more respectful???
sschind  
#6 Posted : Friday, December 7, 2018 8:49:59 AM(UTC)
So a prospective head coach looks at the situation and decides "If I go to GB and only win 4 games by week 13 I might lose my job On the other hand if I go to Cleveland and only win 4 games by year 3 I might lose my job. I think I'll go to Cleveland.
dyeah_gb  
#7 Posted : Friday, December 7, 2018 8:58:09 AM(UTC)
sschind said: Go to Quoted Post
So a prospective head coach looks at the situation and decides "If I go to GB and only win 4 games by week 13 I might lose my job On the other hand if I go to Cleveland and only win 4 games by year 3 I might lose my job. I think I'll go to Cleveland.


I want to argue with you that the context matters in this situation but then I think of what happened to Ray Rhodes.
KRK  
#8 Posted : Friday, December 7, 2018 9:28:35 AM(UTC)
I think they handled the firing in an exemplary fashion. They did Mike McCarthy a favor by doing it now versus the end of the year.


It’s an advantage to the team because they are the first in line to look.

Also, if a prospective coach, you know that there is an opening in Green Bay versus NOT knowing and you can have your people begin to make inquiries...I will bet they are getting calls already.

They are smart enough not to broadcast if, when, and from whom inquiries have been made.
beast  
#9 Posted : Friday, December 7, 2018 9:32:26 AM(UTC)
sschind said: Go to Quoted Post
So a prospective head coach looks at the situation and decides "If I go to GB and only win 4 games by week 13 I might lose my job On the other hand if I go to Cleveland and only win 4 games by year 3 I might lose my job. I think I'll go to Cleveland.


Yeah, if your scared of potential failure that's the right way to think... but let's be honest, if they were scared of potential failure then they wouldn't be seeking a head coach job... so I strongly doubt prospect head coaches have the same mindset that you're using... as they ones scared are staying put...

Every so often we hear a player say they think they're the best, and we just laugh because it's clear they're not the best... high level coaching is the same ... they're not scared to gamble on themselves (even when they should be).


In the last 30 years, the Packers have had 6 head coaches (or 5 if you don't count temp Joe Philbin) In the last 10 years, the Browns have had 6 head coaches (or 5 if you don't count temp Greg Williams).

So with the Packers you have the potential to possibly stay 3 times longer.

Also the Browns drafted QB Johnny Football AND FORCED the coaches to play them, even though the coaches didn't want too, which is why Kyle Shanahan left after a single since gle because they weren't letting the coaches decide who plays, and that might be why Mike Pettine never wants to be head coach again
sschind  
#10 Posted : Friday, December 7, 2018 9:36:43 AM(UTC)
dyeah_gb said: Go to Quoted Post
I want to argue with you that the context matters in this situation but then I think of what happened to Ray Rhodes.


For the record I was trying to make a joke. I think being the head coach of the Packers would be a very attractive position for almost any prospective candidate.

I don't think the next GB coach has to worry about being fired in the middle of the season even if he only has 4 wins by week 13. It was a cumulative occurrence and I don't think Mike McCarthy was fired because of that.

The thing is most people realize and probably agree that it was time for the Packers to move on from McCarthy and they don't have a problem with the firing they just don't like the way it was done. Some thought they should have waited until the end of the season and let Mike decide how to approach it. Some don't even have a problem with the middle of the season thing they just thought they should have waited until Monday to do it.

I felt right from the start of the season that if they had a bad season he would be gone but I felt they would wait until the season was over. For many of the reasons Glazer pointed out I didn't see any benefit from doing it midseason. In fact I was so sure they would wait I didn't stop to think of the potential fallout if they didn't. Honestly, if I were McCarthy I think I'd prefer it this way. The uncertainty is gone now, he has an extra 4 weeks paid vacation and he can spend his time deciding on what he wants to do. He can start researching potential landing spots (watching game film of Baker Mayfield and developing a plan for him if the Browns should come calling for example) I don't think McCarthy lost anything in this except maybe a bit of pride. On the other hand potential employers may question his abilities because he was so bad the Packers didn't even let him finish out the year. However, I don't think that will be an issue. Mike McCarthy has his track record and it will stand on its own. The first 13 weeks are what GM's and owners are going to remember about McCarthy's 2018 season and not the fact that he didn't get to finish the last 4.

For the Packers I think it was a bit of a knee jerk reaction to a bad game. Murphy probably had a threshold and it was reached and he pulled the trigger. What do they gain from it? Unless Joe Philbin is a serious candidate for the HC spot they gain very little. If he is they gain the advantage of a 4 game pre season so to speak. If he is just a placeholder they risked alienating legitimate potential candidates. Just like so many people are down on McDaniels for bailing on the Colts some candidates may be down on the Packers for bailing on McCarthy the way they did.

I do think Murphty is probably second guessing himself right now for the way he handled it because of the fallout but I think in the long run it won't make any difference.
beast  
#11 Posted : Friday, December 7, 2018 9:40:43 AM(UTC)
KRK said: Go to Quoted Post
I think they handled the firing in an exemplary fashion. They did Mike McCarthy a favor by doing it now versus the end of the year.


It’s an advantage to the team because they are the first in line to look.

Also, if a prospective coach, you know that there is an opening in Green Bay versus NOT knowing and you can have your people begin to make inquiries...I will bet they are getting calls already.

They are smart enough not to broadcast if, when, and from whom inquiries have been made.


Yeah Jay Glazer busted a huge hole in the theories you are laying down in the first post/clip.

1) Other teams did their Super Bowl winning coaches a much bigger and more respectful favor.

2) You could look without firing him

3) They can't have direct calls with any coach while the season is still going on, and indirect calls is like looking, they could do that at any point.


After listening to Glazer, the only advantages I see, are if you seriously wanted to give Joe Philbin a shot, if you want to send a message to the players, if you think Mike McCarthy would be a problem child as a lame duck head coach (which he has already proven otherwise) or if your trying to attract a college coach before they committ to staying in college because their season ends sooner.


I think they did it as part of the message to players.
sschind  
#12 Posted : Friday, December 7, 2018 9:48:02 AM(UTC)
KRK said: Go to Quoted Post
I think they handled the firing in an exemplary fashion. They did Mike McCarthy a favor by doing it now versus the end of the year.


It’s an advantage to the team because they are the first in line to look.

Also, if a prospective coach, you know that there is an opening in Green Bay versus NOT knowing and you can have your people begin to make inquiries...I will bet they are getting calls already.

They are smart enough not to broadcast if, when, and from whom inquiries have been made.


If you don't think teams like the Jets or the Bengals or whoever else who may be contemplating firing their coaches at the end of the year aren't already doing their research you are kidding yourself. If candidates are still under contract with other teams no one can contact them and if they aren't anyone can contact them. As far as candidates I don't think there are any rules prohibiting prospective coaches from contacting teams and if there are it would affect teams with coaches under contract as well as those with interim coaches. Any prospective coach or his people are most likely researching half a dozen potential vacancies for next year and I'd be willing to bet those teams already have their short lists.

KRK  
#13 Posted : Friday, December 7, 2018 10:42:41 AM(UTC)
I don’t put a hell of a lot of stock them anything J. Glazer says. Further, management has to think strategically, and not be so sensitive to peoples personalities and feelings.

Also, there’s a big difference between a hypothetical opening and a real opening. You can’t make a deal if there isn’t an actual opening.

Updated by user Friday, December 7, 2018 11:39:19 AM(UTC)  | Reason: addtnl point an typos

sschind  
#14 Posted : Friday, December 7, 2018 3:32:45 PM(UTC)
KRK said: Go to Quoted Post
I don’t put a hell of a lot of stock them anything J. Glazer says. Further, management has to think strategically, and not be so sensitive to peoples personalities and feelings.

Also, there’s a big difference between a hypothetical opening and a real opening. You can’t make a deal if there isn’t an actual opening.


I highly doubt they are going to make a deal with anyone before the season is over anyway so by the time they do all the hypothetical openings are going to be real openings if that is what the teams decide. I guess if its a college coach they might but in all likelihood they will wait until the season is over to approach all possible candidates. Murphy said they are going to cast a wide net in their search so I would assume that would mean interest in coaches they can not approach yet.

So Murphy had made the decision to fire McCarthy. There is not much he can do now that he couldn't do if Mike McCarthy was still HC except perhaps evaluate Joe Philbin as a candidate
nerdmann  
#15 Posted : Friday, December 7, 2018 5:25:42 PM(UTC)
sschind said: Go to Quoted Post
So a prospective head coach looks at the situation and decides "If I go to GB and only win 4 games by week 13 I might lose my job On the other hand if I go to Cleveland and only win 4 games by year 3 I might lose my job. I think I'll go to Cleveland.


I think part of it might be the perception that you would have to deal with a diva QB who has been empowered to run the team and potentially has final say over management decisions, above your own authority as a HC.
beast  
#16 Posted : Friday, December 7, 2018 7:26:17 PM(UTC)
KRK said: Go to Quoted Post
I don’t put a hell of a lot of stock them anything J. Glazer says. Further, management has to think strategically, and not be so sensitive to peoples personalities and feelings.

Also, there’s a big difference between a hypothetical opening and a real opening. You can’t make a deal if there isn’t an actual opening.


I'm sure the feeling is mutual between you and Glazer and that doesn't take away from the fact the Glazer made a great point... as you it would be been strategic to be BOTH strategically and sensitive and not one or the other like you're suggesting...

And clearly you missed the point (or are willfully ignoring it) because you can't make a deal either way right now, unless it's will a college coach or unemployed coach... and they're probably not gonna make a deal until the season is over, in which case there would be a real opening either way, so your point is completely mute as it would make absolutely no differences other than sensitive...

Your theory is there was something strategically gained by upsetting people... but nothing has been strategically gained unless you want to see what Joe Philbin can do, or if you want to talk to a college coach or an unemployed coach... everything else is the same.
DoddPower  
#17 Posted : Friday, December 7, 2018 11:02:02 PM(UTC)
The Green Bay job will be desirable. It's not for everyone. It never has been and it never will be. But for many, it would be an ideal position. Some temporary drama won't change that.
Fitness  
#18 Posted : Saturday, December 8, 2018 4:35:34 AM(UTC)
IMO Glazer is a mouthpiece for people who want to snipe and attack. And he speaks out of both sides of his mouth. On one hand, he says you can't get a head start...on the other he says there conversations and deals happening all the time...which is it?

What is more cruel, to fire a guy and let him get a head start, or to keep him around as a "dead man walking?" Glazer would have criticized the Packers either way. Green Bay doesn't have the swanky restaraunts and the scene he seems to crave.

Beast said:
Quote:
because you can't make a deal either way right now, unless it's will a college coach or unemployed coach..


That is a naive notion. Clearly, that is not the case...you CAN make a deal, you just can't execute/sign/announce the deal.
sschind  
#19 Posted : Saturday, December 8, 2018 9:44:08 AM(UTC)
Fitness said: Go to Quoted Post
IMO Glazer is a mouthpiece for people who want to snipe and attack. And he speaks out of both sides of his mouth. On one hand, he says you can't get a head start...on the other he says there conversations and deals happening all the time...which is it?

What is more cruel, to fire a guy and let him get a head start, or to keep him around as a "dead man walking?" Glazer would have criticized the Packers either way. Green Bay doesn't have the swanky restaraunts and the scene he seems to crave.

Beast said:


That is a naive notion. Clearly, that is not the case...you CAN make a deal, you just can't execute/sign/announce the deal.


Yes you can but it is extremely risky. If anyone found out there could be repercussions. Lets say the Packers contact McDaniels and say we want you and will give you this much. McDaniels says OK and they agree to a deal. If someone finds out it more than likely a huge fine and very likely a loss of a draft pick.

Now the packers could contact his agent and tell him "Keep this on the down low but we are very interested in Josh as our next head coach. Let him know and we will be in touch after the Patriots are done." That type of stuff probably happens all the time but as far as actual conversations and negotiations...I doubt it happens much. Its just too risky.

As far as how the Packers handled the McCarthy situation I think it is better for McCarthy this way as now he can relax and concentrate on where he may want to go and he can get a jump on things. Like I said before if Cleveland is an option for him he has 4 extra weeks to put together a hell of a presentation on how he will develop Mayfield. Something he couldn't have done, or would have been crucified for doing, if he was still the Packers HC. Also I don't think there is anything preventing the Browns from talking to him now if they are interested.

I don't think the Packers gained a heck of a lot by firing him early unless they consider Philbin a legitimate candidate to replace him.
Zero2Cool  
#20 Posted : Saturday, December 8, 2018 9:50:45 AM(UTC)
Fitness said: Go to Quoted Post
That is a naive notion. Clearly, that is not the case...you CAN make a deal, you just can't execute/sign/announce the deal.


And if you don't have it in writing, and stop searching, and that person backs out, you're screwed. Not to mention the ramifications of doing something behind everyone's back, undermining the current administration. It looks shady on all parts. Yes, it can be done, it's just the morally wrong thing to do. There are not any positives to it.
Rss Feed
Users browsing this topic
Guest
2 Pages12>
Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Notification

Icon
Error

Fan Shout
gbguy20 (4h) : no one said tonyan is better than graham but it sure seems the general consensus is beginning to lean toward cutting graham rather than paying him another 10 million
beast (4h) : I like Tonyan, but this nonsense (that's growing though out Packers fans) that Tonyan is better than Graham is just like the nonsense about Aaron Rouse being better than Nick Collins in 2007...
beast (4h) : Tonyan got down field once when the OL COMPLETELY OWNED the DL on one play and Rodgers and ALL DAY to hold the ball!
Zero2Cool (5h) : is Tonyan faster? I'd be good cutting Graham and using Tonyan more. I've seen him stretch the field. Graham with busted thumb = terrible
gbguy20 (5h) : can't say there would be much difference, aside from tonyan being way faster
nerdmann (7h) : You gonna go with Tonyan?
gbguy20 (7h) : the dude needs to go after this year
nerdmann (7h) : Bring him back until you develop a guy. That takes a year or two.
nerdmann (7h) : I look at Graham as Chmura, without the blocking.
nerdmann (7h) : Dude was on pace for the all time production record for TEs, broke his damn thumb.
nerdmann (7h) : 46 receptions isn't bad.
packerfanoutwest (7h) : many free agents don't want to play in GB,,,and you know why. Graham played for the money
Nonstopdrivel (10h) : Graham has 46 receptions on 77 targets.
Zero2Cool (10h) : Graham should sit until his broken thumb is better.
gbguy20 (12h) : careful rabidgopher, half the forum will attack you if you say that here.
rabidgopher04 (13h) : Jimmy Graham rarely catches the ball when it comes his way.
Zero2Cool (13h) : Graham: 'My numbers suck' in Green Bay
Zero2Cool (16h) : @NicholasJOlson Stefon Diggs currently has 88 catches without a single drop.
Nonstopdrivel (22h) : I'm pissed I missed it. I fell asleep on the couch.
TheKanataThrilla (14-Dec) : 11 comeback wins by Philip Rivers down 14 points or more. Insane stat.
TheKanataThrilla (14-Dec) : Big Fucking Balls by the Chargers. What a game!!!
TheKanataThrilla (14-Dec) : And the refs don't call the helmet to helmet
TheKanataThrilla (14-Dec) : I hate cheap 3rd down penalties for automatic first downs.
TheKanataThrilla (14-Dec) : Nick Foles probably take them on a winning streak to set up a QB controversy
gbguy20 (14-Dec) : poor guy
gbguy20 (14-Dec) : oh wow
Nonstopdrivel (14-Dec) : Carson Wentz has a fractured backbone. Will likely deal with impotence for the rest of his life.
TheKanataThrilla (14-Dec) : KC & Chargers hopefully this lives up to the hype.
nerdmann (14-Dec) : Leave more of those bigger faster guys for us.
nerdmann (14-Dec) : Teams are going with this smaller quicker WRs
nerdmann (14-Dec) : lol
Zero2Cool (13-Dec) : Probably a good sign you should change your system. dumbass
Zero2Cool (13-Dec) : Mark Davis: Amari Cooper is “a great, great player” who didn’t fit our system
gbguy20 (13-Dec) : Byron bell to ir
Zero2Cool (12-Dec) : @ProFootballTalk Taysom Hill named NFC special teams player of the week
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2018 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 9 @ 7:20 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Sep 16 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Sep 23 @ 12:00 PM
Redskins
Sunday, Sep 30 @ 12:00 PM
BILLS
Sunday, Oct 7 @ 12:00 PM
Lions
Monday, Oct 15 @ 7:15 PM
49ERS
Sunday, Oct 28 @ 3:25 PM
Rams
Sunday, Nov 4 @ 7:20 PM
Patriots
Sunday, Nov 11 @ 3:25 PM
DOLPHINS
Thursday, Nov 15 @ 7:20 PM
Seahawks
Sunday, Nov 25 @ 7:20 PM
Vikings
Sunday, Dec 2 @ 12:00 PM
CARDINALS
Sunday, Dec 9 @ 12:00 PM
FALCONS
Sunday, Dec 16 @ 12:00 PM
Bears
Sunday, Dec 23 @ 12:00 PM
Jets
Sunday, Dec 30 @ 12:00 PM
LIONS
Think About It
Think About It
Recent Topics
3h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Nonstopdrivel

4h / Around The NFL / beast

17h / Random Babble / Smokey

14-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / jdlax

14-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / buckeyepackfan

13-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / KRK

13-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / earthquake

13-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / steveishere

12-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / nyrpack

12-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / KRK

12-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / yooperfan

12-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / nerdmann

12-Dec / Packers Draft Threads / Nonstopdrivel

11-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / Nonstopdrivel

11-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / DoddPower

Headlines