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Cheesey  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, August 7, 2019 10:17:43 AM(UTC)
I think it’s disgusting. Democrats are using them to blast President Trump. Saying the shootings are his fault. That he’s not doing anything to stop them.
What is he supposed to do?
Are there not PLENTY of laws on the books that say it’s illegal to do these shootings? Would stricter gun control laws affect these, keep them from happening? I have the answer, NO. Do scumbag criminals obey the laws? Nope. They will get guns illegally, as they don’t give a damn about ANY laws. Only law abiding citizens will be affected by gun laws.
Mass shootings happened when President Obama was in office. He had 8 years to “fix” this problem. Yet it’s somehow Trumps fault.
Truth is, Obama couldn’t stop these scumbags anymore then Trump can.
There are evil people in the world, and no one can completely make the world safe.
Seeing Democrat’s using this to try to beat Trump is disgusting.
That’s about as low as you can go. If a Democrat wins the next election, they will have no more power to stop these things from happening then Trump or Obama had.
THAT is the reality.
4PackGirl  
#2 Posted : Thursday, August 8, 2019 1:12:19 PM(UTC)
I'm not quite sure the problem is that he hasn't done anything to stop them - it's that he's inciting violence in others by his words. Now, before you flip your lid at me, I find it disgusting that ANY & ALL politicians who use something like this to further their agenda. Every single person who has done this needs to take a serious look in the mirror. And YES that includes your average American citizen. WE the people have become a group of greedy, lewd, rude, nasty, pigheaded sheep who follow our political affiliation like a bunch of neanderthals with our tongues hanging out. So to this, I say SHAME ON US...ALL OF US!!! We are so fuckin worried about OUR party that we've forgotten to worry about ourselves.
Zero2Cool  
#3 Posted : Thursday, August 8, 2019 1:36:48 PM(UTC)
Political parties can go to hell. We won't be better until we stop dividing ourselves.
Cheesey  
#4 Posted : Thursday, August 8, 2019 2:20:47 PM(UTC)
Hi Illy!
Anyway....the big stink is Trump wanting people that enter this country do it legally. We have laws that were put in place long ago to protect our borders, and up to now no one had the guts to enforce them. We have so many illegal aliens here it’s ridiculous.
I’m all for allowing people from other countries to come and live here. Is it too much to expect them to follow the laws and do it legally?
I’m expected to obey laws here, shouldn’t everyone?
Times have changed. We are not safe if we can’t monitor who is coming in here.
Mass shootings have happened all along. Just like when Obama and other presidents were in office.
There are more now not because of Trump or what he says. It’s because of the overall moral decline of our country. So many people are “me me me!” With no thought for others.
I saw on yahoo where a 16 year old boy strangled his 21 year old sister to death over using the internet which messed up his gaming.
What the hell is going on out there?
There are evil people, and they don’t care what any president says. They do what they do because they are evil.
This is a great country. But fact is, there are evil people that do evil things. Trump could say “everyone be nice, and let’s end the violence “ and it wouldn’t stop one scumbag from committing a violent act.
100% of the blame lays solely on the heads of the people who do these crimes.
Cheesey  
#5 Posted : Friday, August 9, 2019 9:03:12 AM(UTC)
Just read: “poor kids are just as bright as white kids”
Who said this racist comment?
Joe Biden
Will some scumbag use this as an excuse to go on a white supremacy shooting spree?
Had Trump said this, it would be all over the media, saying it’s proof he’s a racist.
The point I’m trying to make is, anything anyone says can be twisted in their own minds to somehow validate their evil intentions. If someone is looking for a reason to carry out mass murder, they will do so.
Trump, Obama, all leaders are not responsible for it. The animals that choose to do it are responsible.

A few terrible people go out and do something like this, and it causes a mass panic across the country. That’s what terrorists do.
This should be a reason for allowing good citizens to carry guns. Had there been someone there that had a gun, maybe they could have stopped the terrorists before they did so much damage.
Having to wait for police to arrive allowed the animals to carry out their evil plans.
Porforis  
#6 Posted : Sunday, August 11, 2019 9:22:05 PM(UTC)
Cheesey said: Go to Quoted Post
Just read: “poor kids are just as bright as white kids”
Who said this racist comment?
Joe Biden
Will some scumbag use this as an excuse to go on a white supremacy shooting spree?


Who's more relevant, Joe Biden or Donald Trump?

Who do more people listen to, a former VP or the current POTUS?

Why in god's name would you compare an idiot saying “poor kids are just as bright as white kids” to anything Donald Trump's said on the subject? There's a list of gaffes a mile long by Donald Trump you'd likely explain away as misspeaking. I could bring up countless much more aggressive and clear statements Trump has made, things he has retweeted, but at the end of the day you'd just find ways to deflect, explain it away, or otherwise do something other than say "There is zero excuse for what this man said. End of discussion".

Accusations and sworn testimony and admittedly circumstantial evidence tying Trump to Epstein's sex trafficing ring, including allegations of rape? Doesn't matter, what about Bill? (Hint: The resounding chorus from the left is, investigate the heck out of this and if Bill did anything illegal, throw his ass in prison). Various evidence laid out in a FBI investigation highlighting Trump campaign ties to Russian oligarchs and intelligence, convictions made, illegally obtained assets reclaimed, and what do we hear? Witch hunt! Presidential harassment! But what about Hillary? Steele dossier (Hey, how's that IG investigation into the origins that was supposed to show how it was all bogus going?)! Not saying that nobody on the right criticizes trump, I'm just saying that it always seems to come with the caveat of "but what about..." that comes with 10 times the intensity of any token scorn directed towards Trump.

This whataboutism is a race to the bottom. Go to any relatively far-left social media outlet (for example, reddit's /r/politics or /r/news) and watch people nearly universally condemn Biden as an idiot, point out that he's getting away with stuff other people wouldnt. A quick glance at CNN (here and even referring to him as The Gaffe Machine here), The Washington Post, and New York Times all have prominently features articles condemning Biden. Not to mention all over the place elsewhere. And a good chunk of people criticize Biden's record in regards to race relations. Biden's an idiot. He shouldn't be president. He's being pushed by the media on both sides because the left thinks he's the "moderate" candidate and because the right sees him as gaffe-prone enough to get throttled in the general election, and has the personality to get drawn into the mud with Trump and lose to his experience.


Meanwhile, when Trump smirks and makes a comment like "Only in the panhandle you can get away with that" when one of his crowdmembers shouts "Shoot them!" in response to what border agents should do to (ficticiously) large numbers illegal immigrants trying to cross the border, there's literally zero reporting on fox news.

Drop the politics, drop the confirmation bias, drop the whataboutism. If you really want to "drain the swamp", don't pick and choose what kind of festering matter you like based on what it does for you.

Updated by user Monday, August 12, 2019 6:59:29 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

KRK  
#7 Posted : Monday, August 12, 2019 9:35:15 AM(UTC)
Porforis posted:
Quote:
drop the whataboutism
No Thanks.

Whataboutism equals Perspective. It identifies hypocritical behavior and unequal application of justice....SOMETHING THAT HAS RUN RAMPANT IN OUR COUNTRY.

But to Porforis' point...the swamp need to be drained and there are plenty of scumbag corrupt politicians on BOTH sides of the AISLE[. We all need to take blinders off. There are really evil, sick people in this world. Many are in the Congress, many are in government. All of these investigations, many of the FBI and CIA roadblocks which they claim are ostensibly because of possible compromises of sources and uses are b.s. It is a lot of ass covering and obfuscation.

To the point of the thread....Grandstanding at any tragedy is repulsive, irrespective of who is grandstanding.

This will be my last post on the subject....I really wish the subject had not been brought up. (Yes, I know I can ignore it)
Porforis  
#8 Posted : Monday, August 12, 2019 10:05:39 AM(UTC)
KRK said: Go to Quoted Post
Whataboutism equals Perspective. It identifies hypocritical behavior and unequal application of justice....SOMETHING THAT HAS RUN RAMPANT IN OUR COUNTRY.


We might be working under different definitions.

Example: Reports of Bill Clinton's connections with Epstein.

Whataboutism: "Dude, Donald "grab them by the pussy" Trump is straight up named, under oath, by an at the time 13 year old as having raped her! You're concerned about Bill flying on his plane a handful of times? Go figure, rich people are connected to other rich people. You see this all over the place. Donald Trump's had massive numbers of similar allegations from mostly adults but also minors (such as walking in on Junior Miss America contestants in changing rooms) and we've been hearing rumors for years about his "p tape". Classic Republican projection!"

Combating hypocritical behavior and unequal application of justice: "Investigate him, and everyone else in his orbit that the evidence merits and throw the book at them. Powerful people get away with murder, we can't let this die."

The difference is, one attempts to deflect attention AWAY from a target of attack you have an emotional or political attachment to. Your deflected attention very well may have legitimate merit, as in my example. It however, serves to limit the usefulness of any debate and takes attention AWAY from one side that legitimately deserves scrutiny.

This my friend, is why hypocritical behavior has run rampant.
Zero2Cool  
#9 Posted : Monday, August 12, 2019 10:21:42 AM(UTC)
Should have extended the ban on automatic rifles. Clinton was right on that.
KRK  
#10 Posted : Monday, August 12, 2019 1:14:02 PM(UTC)
I am breaking my vow on this thread:
Porforis posted
Quote:
We might be working under different definitions.
I don't know that we are. But like you (I think) I want them all investigated. Trump, Clinton, Richardson, Dershowitz...ALL. I don't give a rip about which party, or any party they belonged to.

Elsewhere, re: Whataboutism...and this was my main point (made poorly) I am sick of certain folks engaging in obvious criminal activity and running free when if any of us did the same thing we'd be locked up....because we are not part of the protected/teflon class.

Last, Z opined
Quote:
Should have extended the ban on automatic rifles. Clinton was right on that.
Clinton was right on many things AND, IMO he is a perv and probably much worse. Automatic ban YES. Semi-automatic, NO.

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Cheesey  
#11 Posted : Monday, August 12, 2019 2:43:13 PM(UTC)
Porforis, why is Biden relevant? Because he’s running for president. Doesn’t that make him and what he says relevant?
Anyway, no matter what Trump says or does, you hate him and even though the country is doing great under his leadership.
And KRK said something a lot of people don’t understand. There is a HUGE difference between automatic and semi automatic guns. I’m fine with making automatic weapons illegal, as there are no legitimate reason to have them.
But we shouldn’t have to give up our guns as law abiding citizens.

As I stated in the beginning, using gun crimes as a political crutch to try to knock out the opponent is disgusting.
Families are hurting because of what happened, and using their loss in their political favor is terrible.
And trying to make these violent crimes Trumps fault is ridiculous.
Let’s also remember the KKK was started by Democrats.
I knew when I started this thread that some wouldn’t agree with me. But that’s what makes our country great. We CAN disagree and voice our opinions.
Porforis  
#12 Posted : Monday, August 12, 2019 7:47:13 PM(UTC)
Cheesey said: Go to Quoted Post
Anyway, no matter what Trump says or does, you hate him and even though the country is doing great under his leadership.


Well that's not condescending. Cool, let's see how that shoe fits on the other foot. No matter what Trump does, you love him and you'll support him and everything he does. Fair? Cool. Glad we had this chat and I apologize for wasting your time by explaining what I think, why I think it, and spending about 10 minutes rounding up links across various media sources. That was rude of me.
Cheesey  
#13 Posted : Monday, August 12, 2019 10:30:37 PM(UTC)
Porforis said: Go to Quoted Post
Well that's not condescending. Cool, let's see how that shoe fits on the other foot. No matter what Trump does, you love him and you'll support him and everything he does. Fair? Cool. Glad we had this chat and I apologize for wasting your time by explaining what I think, why I think it, and spending about 10 minutes rounding up links across various media sources. That was rude of me.


I was not being condescending. Saying you hate Trump, is that not true? And I don’t love everything he does. He’s not perfect, and he may have done bad things in his past. I bet any person, any president has done bad things if you are looking to find them. How about being a pig, using your position to have sex with women. How about lying under oath? That’s Bill Clinton. Kennedy was known for his womanizing. Nixon did all kinds of illegal things. No PERSON is perfect. I bet even you have done things you now regret. I know I did things in my past I’m not proud of.
I didn’t knock you for voicing your opinion. If that’s how it came across to you, I apologize. As I stated, I knew not all would agree with me, and I understand that.
I don’t love Trump. He says things that I wish he’d keep to himself. But he’s NOT a career politician, and that’s a huge positive. And like I said, the country is doing great.
It’s kind of funny. If you look at yahoo every day, you will see constant bashing of the president. The media hatred is constant. Yet if you read the responses to these articles, almost all of them are positive towards Trump.
So I’m not the only one that sees it.
Liberalism runs the media. That’s why it’s so easy for you to find negative stuff about the president.
Had there been this much scrutiny towards Obama, there would have been screams of “racists!!!”
I guess we will see next year how it really turns out. If the country wants to stay on course, or return to the same old politicians.
Porforis  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, August 13, 2019 9:48:51 AM(UTC)
I don't hate Trump. I hate various things he does, and things he's doing. Maybe I'm a bit weird, but I'm a person that really doesn't understand the concept of a person. If someone hurts me, I don't want an apology by itself - I want them to stop doing what's hurting me. If they do that, yeah sure an apology is a nice added touch but at the end of the day - You are who you choose to be and you are what you choose to do and everyone has the capacity to change that, so I see no value in condemning people. This is obviously heavily influenced by your upbringing and environment, but we all have choices. No matter what shitty things he's done in the past, if he were to turn those things around and become a better person, I would have deep respect for him and the things he's doing to change himself and the world around him.

That's part of why I took your comment so personally - you simply assumed that I hated him in a way that kind of cuts off productive conversation. Now that we're talking about things and both explaining ourselves - it seems we both have a lot of attitudes in common as well. There's plenty of things you're saying I also completely disagree on, but I strongly doubt we'll change eachothers minds.
KRK  
#15 Posted : Tuesday, August 13, 2019 10:40:09 AM(UTC)
Porforis, I always enjoy reading your well-thought postings...and I still say that is one good looking dog.

Perhaps my elderly perspective on people will help. Remember, no matter who...at some point in time, some aspect of any person's behavior disappoint you....no exceptions other than the divine. If you start there, you will be a happier person as your expectations will be set lower.

As it concerns the Orange Man...I think he is an A-hole....but he is MY A-hole...and he is your A-hole too.

There is not an objective person among us (at least there shouldn't be) who doesn't find some of his postings and utterances are....well....deplorable. Ulysses Grant was a foul mouthed jerk, King David seduces Uriah's wife and had him killed, Martin Luther King, it is alleged, aided and abetted rape. That does not mean that these individuals did not make significant contributions to humankind.

To Orange Man....if you ignore the words, and look at the policy implementation, I would argue he has been a terrific President. Is it hard to do that sometimes, yes. Can i justify all the things he posts and says and all his policies....no. But for those of us who are Constitutionalists and Nationalists, he is, policy wise, a terrific President. Rhino's have tried nice guys, like Romney, Bush(s), et. al. and they keep getting their asses handed to them legislatively, electorally, and internationally. That's why so many of us held our noses and voted for Orange Man. The alternative was even more unacceptable. On the whole, most of us (who voted for him) are very happy with his policies. Are there exceptions...yes....including I wish he were less transactional on certain things, such as I wish he would VOCALLY encourage the dissidents in Hong Kong.

To the topic of apologizing...I would take your assertion much further than you did. An apology, without an attempted change in behavior is not an apology.

Updated by user Tuesday, August 13, 2019 6:36:35 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Cheesey  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, August 14, 2019 12:18:04 AM(UTC)
KRK, you voiced how I feel a lot better then I did. And I think we are both close to the same age.

Porforis, again I apologize. I’ll try to think better next time. I didn’t mean to come across as I did.
Now I’m going to switch gears and tell you a TRUE story that happened to me yesterday!
I was waiting in line at a store, and the item I was purchasing didn’t have the UPC code on it, thus holding up the line. I turned and said “I’m sorry!” To the woman behind me, as I felt bad for holding her up. She said “don’t apologize for something you have no control over!” So I looked at her with a straight face and said “I’m sorry for apologizing!” She got a puzzled look on her face, and then I couldn’t help but break up. She burst out laughing!
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