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wpr  
#1 Posted : Monday, August 19, 2019 8:55:15 PM(UTC)
LombardiAve said:
Mason Crosby's position with the 2019 Green Bay Packers has been anything but certain, but he should make the roster with just two weeks to go until the regular season begins. The Green Bay Packers wanted competition at kicker, and so far this summer, it looks to have brought the best out of Mason Crosby.

Continue Reading @ LombardiAve


Mason's cap hit is $4.8 mil which is the highest among kickers. His average is a little over $4 mil and that drops him to 8th. I wouldn't mid seeing him re-do the deal but would they really save much is he is at $3 mil for the cap hit. That would put him 13th in the league. He's better than the 13th best kicker.

On the other hand, just how much better is he than Fricken and his $495,000 league min salary? Even if he's great he won't see a $ 1mil for at least 3 years Probably 5.
Cheesey  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, August 20, 2019 10:53:19 AM(UTC)
Keep “Bing”.
Ever since that one bad spurt he had, he’s been good.
The kicking game is taken for granted too often. Stay with the known guy until he’s proven he can no longer do it.
The extra money he makes, he has earned.
That’s my thought, at least.
go.pack.go.  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, August 21, 2019 10:39:30 AM(UTC)
Keep him. Tired of letting good & proven veterans go because their cap hit is a little too high. I wouldn’t say his is too high though. Like Cheesey said, I feel like he’s earned it.
sschind  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, August 21, 2019 1:42:39 PM(UTC)
I don't mind paying top money for a top kicker but as someone on another forum pointed out Crosby is not a top kicker. At least not over the past several years. He ranked 23 in FG % last year. In the years before that he was 29th, 10th, 16th, 23rd, 13th. One year out of the last 6 he was in the top 3rd.

In that thread I was defending Crosby pointing out that 1 missed FG a year can make a big difference in the ranking but I realized that Crosby is not elite either, and he is being paid like he is. That said I don't think you replace him simply for cap reasons. If he is clearly out kicked in camp and PS then make the switch but to make the switch to save a few million dollars when the new guy hasn't clearly out performed is a mistake.

Another interesting stat he pulled up (or out depending how you look at it) Since Crosby came into the league, as a team, the Packers ranked 30 or 31 in FG percentage.

The thing is an 80% career FG kicker was fine 10 years ago but its near the bottom now. The problem is when the new guy comes in and hits 65% you would be wishing you had the 80% guy but until it happens you just don't know. You could cut him and sign a bargain basement guy and he could do just as well or he could be crap and it could lead to a revolving door situation that costs several games all to save a few million dollars.

Honestly I could go either way on Crosby but like I said the new guy would have to outperform him and probably bey a significant amount for the cap savings to be worth the risk
Zero2Cool  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, August 21, 2019 1:59:03 PM(UTC)
Since 2014 on Kicks 49 yards or longer.

Mason Crosby GNB 16 made 27 attempt 59.3%


For comparison sake, here is the guy who's kicked the most 49+ yarders
Justin Tucker BAL 37 made 52 attempt 71.2%



Mason is about the 8-10th on average in salary. Justin Tucker is #1.


Seems like we're paying for what we're getting. Somehow.
https://www.pro-football...80&order_by=distance
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/kicker/
sschind  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, August 21, 2019 4:05:59 PM(UTC)
I'm not sure what your point is. Crosby counts 4.85 million against the cap this year. Tucker counts 4.65 and 5.1 in each of the next 3 years. I think Tucker is worth every penny. I'm not sure Crosby is.

All those guys who are ahead of Crosby signed new deals either this off season or last. Crosby signed his deal in 2016. Salaries go up so it doesn't surprise me that after 3 years he has been passed by several players.

Crosby is being paid like a top 10 kicker and he isn't kicking like one. I still don't want to see him cut simply to save cap space but I'm not opposed to seeing if there is someone better and if he is cheaper (as he likely would be) even better.

I guess it depends on how much of a gambler you are. I think chances are good that you find a better kicker but they are probably equally as good you don't so the question then becomes how much does the cap savings offset the drop in production. I'm not sure I am willing to take that gamble so my gut says stay with Crosby. It the devil you know vs the devil you don't
Cheesey  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, August 21, 2019 4:40:24 PM(UTC)
My hope is, that the new offense and players, hopefully we will mostly need Crosby to kick extra points!
Zero2Cool  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, August 21, 2019 5:02:09 PM(UTC)
sschind said: Go to Quoted Post
I'm not sure what your point is.


No worries, mate. You can read the same post an unlimited amount of times until you get the point. I'll wait.

sschind said: Go to Quoted Post
Crosby is being paid like a top 10 kicker and he isn't kicking like one. I still don't want to see him cut simply to save cap space but I'm not opposed to seeing if there is someone better and if he is cheaper (as he likely would be) even better.


What is Mason Crosby not doing well at in regards to kicking? Kickoffs or Field Goals? Everything?

34 of 36 extra points. 94.4% (whopping 17th!) in 2018

Only two kickers made more 50+ FG's than he did in 2018

3rd in attempted FG's in 2018 (the two who kicked more than him were in the high 80's for FG made % and 4th in FG's attempted was a full 10% higher in percentage and he kicks for the Jets!)

6th in made FG's in 2018

23rd in FG Made % ... TWENTY THIRD! in 2018



In 2017 he kicked almost half as many FG's and actually had a lower FG Made %


This link shows Mason Crosby is the highest cap hit for the Kicking position. https://www.spotrac.com/...rankings/cap-hit/kicker/

Looks like we'd have a 2019 Cap Savings: $3,600,000 if we Cut or Traded Mason Crosby.

The only thing that makes me nervous about that is the issues I see other teams having trying to find a guy who can kick the ball between the uprights. I'd rather keep Crosby under a different deal. I just don't know that is a possible thing to do.
gbguy20  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, August 21, 2019 6:21:09 PM(UTC)
Kickers also talk about how hard it is to kick in lambeau as well. Who is to say Tucker, called the top kicker in the league (above) wouldn't struggle, or see his stats drop to Crosby level? idk

KRK  
#10 Posted : Thursday, August 22, 2019 3:01:26 AM(UTC)
Let's not be penny wise and pound foolish. Ask the Bares how important a reliable kicker is.

If we let him go, we will find somewhere during the season, that kickers are a lot like policemen....when you really need one, they are hard to find.
Zero2Cool  
#11 Posted : Thursday, August 22, 2019 5:15:03 AM(UTC)
gbguy20 said: Go to Quoted Post
Kickers also talk about how hard it is to kick in lambeau as well. Who is to say Tucker, called the top kicker in the league (above) wouldn't struggle, or see his stats drop to Crosby level? idk



I'm not sure the Ravens stadium is much better than Lambeau Field for kickers.
Cheesey  
#12 Posted : Thursday, August 22, 2019 7:30:01 AM(UTC)
Also, the long snapper and holder make a difference too!
When a kicker and holder are together for a long time, they get comfortable together. So that can make a huge difference.
It’s not all on the kicker. All 3 have to work as a unit. Any one of them messes up and it can blow the kick.
Zero2Cool  
#13 Posted : Thursday, August 22, 2019 7:32:07 AM(UTC)
Cheesey said: Go to Quoted Post
Also, the long snapper and holder make a difference too!
When a kicker and holder are together for a long time, they get comfortable together. So that can make a huge difference.
It’s not all on the kicker. All 3 have to work as a unit. Any one of them messes up and it can blow the kick.


That is true. I won't be going through and figuring out Kicker/Holder partnership duration for the kickers. I am not that ambitious!

If we NEED the money, I can understand cutting him if we have someone we feel is going to be as good, if not better. If we don't NEED the money, I say keep him.
yooperfan  
#14 Posted : Thursday, August 22, 2019 8:25:44 AM(UTC)
Unless the other guy beats Crosby out by a considerable margin, I say keep him.
sschind  
#15 Posted : Thursday, August 22, 2019 11:27:48 AM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
No worries, mate. You can read the same post an unlimited amount of times until you get the point. I'll wait.



What is Mason Crosby not doing well at in regards to kicking? Kickoffs or Field Goals? Everything?

34 of 36 extra points. 94.4% (whopping 17th!) in 2018

Only two kickers made more 50+ FG's than he did in 2018

3rd in attempted FG's in 2018 (the two who kicked more than him were in the high 80's for FG made % and 4th in FG's attempted was a full 10% higher in percentage and he kicks for the Jets!)

6th in made FG's in 2018

23rd in FG Made % ... TWENTY THIRD! in 2018



In 2017 he kicked almost half as many FG's and actually had a lower FG Made %


This link shows Mason Crosby is the highest cap hit for the Kicking position. https://www.spotrac.com/...rankings/cap-hit/kicker/

Looks like we'd have a 2019 Cap Savings: $3,600,000 if we Cut or Traded Mason Crosby.

The only thing that makes me nervous about that is the issues I see other teams having trying to find a guy who can kick the ball between the uprights. I'd rather keep Crosby under a different deal. I just don't know that is a possible thing to do.


So are you in the keep him or cut him camp. I still can't tell from your "explanation" Your stats are all over the map. You post one stat that has his 23rd and another that has him 6th. It sounds like you think we should cut him (assuming the current contract) but again your pointing out the 50+ yarders, 3rd in attempts, 6th in made FGs sounds like you are defending him.

n your first post, the one where I didn't understand your point (and I still don't) you said we are getting what we are paying for. I disagree. Crosby is being paid like a top 10 kicker and for the past 2 years he has performed like a bottom 10 kicker.

I don't care if he makes all his kicks over 50 yards if he misses a bunch from 40.

I don't care if he is 1st in attempts or last. That is more a factor of the offense than the kicker. If they move the ball well the kicker has more attempts. Percentage is what matters most to me but when we are talking about such low numbers 1 extra miss or two or 1 extra made kick or two can make a big swing in percentage.

Extra points are not a huge factor to me. Crosby was 17th. He missed 2. If he would have missed 1 more he would have dropped to 25th. If he would have made 1 more he would have risen to 7th. Even more than FG attempts extra point attempts are not a kicking stat they are an offensive stat tied directly to TDs scored..

I am not in favor of cutting him just to save money. Even though his percentage is not on par with his cap hit I do realize that he does have some intangibles that make him desirable and several have brought up good points. It is hard to kick in Lambeau but if I am not mistaken opposing kickers actually have a better percentage kicking there than Crosby does.

Like yooper said I would only be in favor of cutting him if the other guy outperforms him by a wide margin but I am in favor of looking very seriously at finding someone else. I don't think this guy we have is teh one to do it though.

I share your nervousness about struggling with kicker after kicker if we decide to move on and aside from the Detroit fiasco last year, which I think was just a really really bad game, Crosby wasn't that bad. If he goes 2/4 in that game his percentage rises to 86.5 which puts him at 17. Not great but not terrible.

If we cut him he won't be out of a job long as he is better than many kickers out there but I do think it would be possible to find a better one. The problem, like you alluded to, is how many worse ones would we have to go through before we find the better one.

I believe we pretty much agree on this after reading this comment from you If we NEED the money, I can understand cutting him if we have someone we feel is going to be as good, if not better. If we don't NEED the money, I say keep him. the only difference is I think even if we don't NEED the money we should cut him if we think we have someone as good or better.
Zero2Cool  
#16 Posted : Thursday, August 22, 2019 11:32:17 AM(UTC)
sschind said: Go to Quoted Post
If we don't NEED the money, I say keep him.[/b] the only difference is I think even if we don't NEED the money we should cut him if we think we have someone as good or better.


I was trying to lay out everything I was finding. I dunno about you, but I am not trying to convince others to agree with me. I'm trying to lay things out to see what is what. Personally, I do not know if we SHOULD replace him or keep him. I see lots of kickers missing kicks. That said, if both kickers perform equally, I would release Crosby for the money.

I do think they need to be tested a helluva lot more though than all these sub 40 yard kicks. I would toss in some insanely bogus things like throwing a baseball at the kicker as he's approaching the kick. Why? To see how he handles the stress of a non-perfect kicking attempt. More or less trying to get them to be comfortable being uncomfortable.

buckeyepackfan  
#17 Posted : Thursday, August 22, 2019 12:22:35 PM(UTC)
The Bears decided not to pay Robbie Gould in 2016.

6 kickers later they just brought in NINE guys to audition for the kicking job.

Mason is under contract for this year.

I wonder if The Bears wish they had paid Gould top kicker money?

They could have very well been playing in The SB last year.

Don't make the mistake The Bears made.
sschind  
#18 Posted : Thursday, August 22, 2019 11:21:45 PM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
I was trying to lay out everything I was finding. I dunno about you, but I am not trying to convince others to agree with me. I'm trying to lay things out to see what is what. Personally, I do not know if we SHOULD replace him or keep him. I see lots of kickers missing kicks. That said, if both kickers perform equally, I would release Crosby for the money.

I do think they need to be tested a helluva lot more though than all these sub 40 yard kicks. I would toss in some insanely bogus things like throwing a baseball at the kicker as he's approaching the kick. Why? To see how he handles the stress of a non-perfect kicking attempt. More or less trying to get them to be comfortable being uncomfortable.



Fair enough. Like I said, I think we are pretty much on the same page. They should be looking for someone better but they shouldn't be looking to dump Crosby and sign someone cheaper just to save some money.

I don't know how many kicks a guy can make in a day and not wear himself out but they should be holding special kicking sessions in the Don Hutson center every day with multiple kickers. 5 kicks from 35 yards then 40 then 45 then 50 then 55. That's 25 kicks maybe that is too much for one day I don't know. Maybe they do do that, again, I don't know Do that for a few days and see who comes out on top. I realize kicking on a practice field in August is different than in a game in December but if you are going to use that excuse we will never see if there is anyone better. You can't use preseason games as much of a gauge unless you are going to forgo trying for TDs as soon as you get into FG range. Kickers may not get any chances in the pre season or certainly not enough to make an educated decision.
beast  
#19 Posted : Friday, August 23, 2019 2:00:42 AM(UTC)
As of right now I think Mason Crosby is probably the only choice for this year.

I mean there is FA Matt Bryant who is 8th in career FG% but there are a lot of teams in much worse shape than the Packers at kicker (including the team that let him go, the Falcons) and not a single one has publicly shown great interest, meaning that he is either refusing to sign during the off-season to spend more time with his family, or more likely he's got a good price tag on him and waiting for teams to start their last second bidding for him right before the season. But he's a decade older than Crosby and who knows what he would cost, apparently the Falcons thought too much as they moved on to a younger guy.

The only real other decent option, is a guy that I believe I read is leader of FG% kicks at Lambeau Field, says it's his favorite place to kick and currently #2 all time in career FG%, former Bears kicker Robbie Gould.

Gould has been franchise tagged by the 49ers. Meaning that his one year contract is gonna be in the $5 million range (higher than Crosby), he's older than Crosby, and he's currently holding out as he's demanding a trade to place closer to home so he can spend more time with family on flights home and because he loves his town (Chicago).

49ers don't want to trade him, but if they can't get him, they might have no other choice, and they might be interested in Crosby in exchange. Maybe... might cost a bit more but Green Bay is much closer to Chicago than San Francisco. Might have to throw another player in like the Packers 7th WR or SS Josh Jones, bit it could be done if both side wanted to (Packers might just prefer sticking where they're at)... though there is always the chance Gould finds.his way back to the very Kicker needy Bears team.
PackerTraxx  
#20 Posted : Friday, August 23, 2019 8:31:09 AM(UTC)
At least he got a bunch or his misses out of the way in one game against the Lions and didn't spread it out over 4 or 5 games which could have hurt more.LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
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