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wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member Topic Starter
2019-12-05T03:54:13Z
I got this from another site. It was put together by a Jets fan who wanted to compare Williams with the other rookies.

Quote:

Here’s a comparison of the rookie IDL and EDGE rushers. All stats are from https://www.pro-football-reference.com . List is in order of draft position.

#2: Nick Bosa, EDGE: 36 Tackles, 24 Solo, 14 TFL, 8.0 Sacks, 16 QB Hits, 1 FF, 2 FR, 1 PD, 1 Int
Notes: None

#3: Quinnen Williams, IDL: 23 Tackles, 12 Solo, 3 TFL, 1.5 Sacks, 4 QB Hits, 0 FF, 1 FR, 1 PD, 0 Int
Notes: Missed weeks 2, 3, and the second half of week 1 due to injury.

#4: Clelin Ferrell, EDGE: 31 Tackles, 18 Solo, 4 TFL, 3.5 Sacks, 5 QB Hits, 0 FF, 0 FR, 5 PD, 0 Int
Notes: Missed week 5 due to injury.

#7: Josh Allen, EDGE: 34 Tackles, 25 Solo, 10 TFL, 9.0 Sacks, 18 QB Hits, 2 FF, 0 FR, 0 PD, 0 Int
Notes: None.

#9: Ed Oliver, IDL: 28 Tackles, 16 Solo, 4 TFL, 5.0 Sacks, 7 QB Hits, 1 FF, 0 FR, 2 PD, 0 Int
Notes: None.

#12: Rashan Gary, EDGE: 13 Tackles, 7 Solo, 1 TFL, 1.0 Sacks, 2 QB Hits, 0 FF, 1 FR, 0 PD, 0 Int
Notes: Hasn't started a game or played more than 36% of the defensive snaps.

#13: Christian Wilkins, IDL: 44 Tackles, 23 Solo, 2 TFL, 1.0 Sacks, 3 QB Hits, 0 FF, 0 FR, 2 PD, 0 Int
Notes: None.

#16: Brian Burns, EDGE: 18 Tackles, 14 Solo, 4 TFL, 5.5 Sacks, 12 QB Hits, 1 FF, 1 FR, 0 PD, 0 Int, 1 TD
Notes: Had wrist surgery decreasing his snaps substantially after a hot start.

#17: Dexter Lawrence, IDL: 31 Tackles, 18 Solo, 2 TFL, 2.5 Sacks, 6 QB Hits, 1 FF, 0 FR, 0 PD, 0 Int
Notes: Has played some snaps as a DE despite being primarily a NT in college. Is also 342 lbs.

#19: Jeffery Simmons, IDL: 21 Tackles, 11 Solo, 2 TFL, 3.5 Sacks, 1 QB Hits, 0 FF, 0 FR, 0 PD, 0 Int
Notes: Tore his ACL in February and missed first 6 games because of it.

#26: Montez Sweat, EDGE: 38 Tackles, 22 Solo, 5 TFL, 5.0 Sacks, 9 QB Hits, 1 FF, 0 FR, 2 PD, 0 Int
Notes: None.

#28: Jerry Tillery, IDL: 12 Tackles, 5 Solo, 1 TFL, 1.5 Sacks, 2 QB Hits, 0 FF, 0 FR, 0 PD, 0 Int
Notes: Has only played over 50% of Defensive snaps once.

#29: L.J. Collier, EDGE: 2 Tackles, 2 Solo, 0 TFL, 0 Sacks, 0 QB Hits, 0 FF, 0 FR, 0 PD, 0 Int
Notes: 4-3 Defensive End who sometimes plays inside according to draft profile. Missed 5 games, 2 of which were as a healthy scratch.



Other players are outperforming Gary so far but as was pointed out he is not playing a lot of downs. I personally had my eye on Oliver but he didn’t fall to the Packers. I was not sure about Sweat’s medical condition. He was a top 15 value and the 3rd best OLB on some boards who fell to #26 so there were a few teams who have a better vetting process than I do felt the same way.

I think it’s safe to say without the Smith “brothers” in front of him Gary would have had more opportunities and thus more production. A podcaster was saying his only move his to power rush the OT. He said he’s getting to the QB but he’s a step too late. If this is the case, once he develops another move or two he will be able to get to the QB a little quicker.
gbguy20
2019-12-05T04:11:40Z
KRK
  • KRK
  • Veteran Member
2019-12-05T11:19:52Z
WPR waxed:
Quote:

I think it’s safe to say without the Smith “brothers” in front of him Gary would have had more opportunities and thus more production.

Perhaps....but Fackrell seems to get a lot more snaps that our first round pick. Thus far, unproductive and seemingly dinged up a large percentage of his plays...a disappointment IMO.
gbguy20
2019-12-05T23:23:17Z
Obligatory fackrell had 10.5 sacks last year
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member Topic Starter
2019-12-06T01:18:49Z
Fackrell is not a rookie and thus has no bearing at this time.
beast
2019-12-06T01:40:05Z
Fackrell also is not in his rookie year... Fackrell got 160 defensive snaps as a rookie. Gary got to 160 defensive snaps two games ago and it's still not the end of the season....

Also Fackrell plays an opposite role than Gary would... they need to keep Fackrell more clean out of the power game, and can use him in coverage as he's an 4-3 OLB playing 3-4 OLB.... they need to keep Gary out of coverage and can use him in the power game, as he's an 4-3 DE playing 3-4 OLB.

Though, I am a bit disappointed, that they haven't figure out ways to get Z. Smith and Gary in at the same time on 3rd down and clear passing downs, one at 3 tech DT and one at the edge (or maybe they have, and I just haven't noticed)
KRK
  • KRK
  • Veteran Member
2019-12-06T02:32:08Z
Sorry, I just don't buy the fact that a first round draft pick, and one who played multiple positions in college, can only play one position, in the pro's.

Given that he supposedly is a terrific athlete who runs a 4.58 40, he should be able to play multiple positions, including ILB or even with his hand on the ground inside, as he occasionally did in college.

If he is mentally incapable, as a full time football player, of only playing one role, then it was a horrific pick.
buckeyepackfan
2019-12-06T03:01:49Z
I get it.
Time to add Rashan Gary to the long list of 1st rnd busts since he hasn't started from day 1.

I just thought it was Ted Thompson who didn't know what he was doing.

I guess Gutekunst is as bad as Ted!

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
KRK
  • KRK
  • Veteran Member
2019-12-06T10:51:19Z
Not yet....Gutey is 3/4 with FA picks...Ted, not so much.
beast
2019-12-06T13:40:45Z
Originally Posted by: KRK 

Sorry, I just don't buy the fact that a first round draft pick, and one who played multiple positions in college, can only play one position, in the pro's.

Given that he supposedly is a terrific athlete who runs a 4.58 40, he should be able to play multiple positions, including ILB or even with his hand on the ground inside, as he occasionally did in college.

If he is mentally incapable, as a full time football player, of only playing one role, then it was a horrific pick.

Who's arguing he can only play one position? HELL, I said the exact opposite! Saying Gary and Z could mix it up on the edge and at DT. Two different positions...

But if one were to think Gary and Fackrell are the exact same style of player and should be used the exact same way, then that doesn't know what they're talking about. To maximum their abilities need to be used in different ways.

If you're going to judge players solely on their 40 times then you're not going to look very smart, because if 40 times all it took, we could get Jeff Janis to play be a probowl ILBer for the Packers.

Gary is a great athlete FOR HIS SIZE... not a great athlete period... and that's mainly when he's going forward in a straight direction. Gary struggles to turn... which is why he'll struggle in ILB coverage.... and have you seen him try to back pedal? No because he's small DL sized.

Gary should never be asked to play half the game in a coverage role... where that can potential be Fackrell strength is that he can drop back into coverage just as well as he can come forward but Fackrell struggles in the power game, where that Gary does great in the power game.

Two extremely different players, that should not be schemes to be used in the same way on an every play plan (of course you might do it once in a while, trying to catch the other team off guard and try to confuses them).



beast
2019-12-06T13:42:12Z
Originally Posted by: KRK 

Not yet....Gutey is 3/4 with FA picks...Ted, not so much.



Woodson, Pickett and Howard Greene, FAs that helped win a Superbowl... add marquel and manual and that's 3/4 too.

Also whom are you counting as Gute miss... Graham or Turner?
KRK
  • KRK
  • Veteran Member
2019-12-06T14:26:37Z
Gramm. Turner is an unknown.

Also, Gutey has been at the job two years? If the cupboard weren’t so bear, he wouldn’t have to have signed so many.
KRK
  • KRK
  • Veteran Member
2019-12-06T14:33:32Z
I’m less interested in comparing Gary with Fackrell...both players rush the passer. I’m more interested in rushing the passer and stopping the run.

Coaches and GM’s nuance things and put their limitations on players, but first round draft choices, particularly those selected so early, should be contributing in a more meaningful way.

Good coaches find a way to use good players
yooperfan
2019-12-06T16:33:51Z
I've said it before and I'll say it again.
I'm a Michigan fan who watches and reads all things Michigan.
Over the course of Gary's career at Michigan, in my wildest dreams, I never even remotely considered that Gary would ever be picked in the first round of the draft.
When the Packers picked him at the 12 spot I was in total shock and had to check his college highlights to see what I had missed during his Wolverine career.
I found that his highlight reel was very short, not anything that would indicate that this kid would be a first rounder.
Now we have a high first rounder that barely sees the field and when he does he just doesn't produce like a top draft pick is expected to.
It's too early to consider Gary a bust but from what I have seen of him through his college career and his rookie season in Green Bay I'm not expecting a lot of production from him.
gbguy20
2019-12-06T16:47:46Z
Originally Posted by: KRK 

I’m less interested in comparing Gary with Fackrell...both players rush the passer. I’m more interested in rushing the passer and stopping the run.

Coaches and GM’s nuance things and put their limitations on players, but first round draft choices, particularly those selected so early, should be contributing in a more meaningful way.

Good coaches find a way to use good players


That last part. Not sure about you guys but I'm still waiting for Pettine to prove he's a good coach. He's got this reputation that I would really like to see him live up to soon. Preferably starting now. The last 6 weeks or so, I'm beginning to doubt it.
beast
2019-12-06T17:44:53Z
Originally Posted by: KRK 

I’m less interested in comparing Gary with Fackrell...both players rush the passer. I’m more interested in rushing the passer and stopping the run.

Coaches and GM’s nuance things and put their limitations on players, but first round draft choices, particularly those selected so early, should be contributing in a more meaningful way.

Good coaches find a way to use good players



1) Gary isn't a good player yet... that's this point, he's a developmental player at best... Gute drafts for long term potential, not right away potential...

2) They should be contributing in a meaningful way, but maybe not as rookies... some guys suck as rookies and become better players later.... Gary clearly needed development, he was not a ready to go pro player, yet some are trying to evaluate him as such. You got a problem more with Gute evaluation methods (and maybe for good reasons), but your not complaining about Gute (yet).

Also Gary is coming from a simply scheme to a more complex one, and doesn't he have a learning disability? Might take him a little longer to learn the scheme. While you got guys that know it and more ready and more versatile playing.

3) Gary and Fackrell you left out pass coverage... Gary is more of a first line front physical guy only good at being physical right now... Fackrell is more a second line versatile guy, that's closer to a jack of all trades.

buckeyepackfan
2019-12-06T18:10:38Z
Originally Posted by: KRK 

Gramm. Turner is an unknown.

Also, Gutey has been at the job two years? If the cupboard weren’t so bear, he wouldn’t have to have signed so many.



Ted took over in 2005 signed Manual in 2005,
Woodson and Pickett in 2006.
Howard Greene was a waiver pick up in 2010.

Back to topic

Someone Explain to me how you can call Gary a bust after 12 games, when he has been backing up the 2 high paid FA's

You would rather play Gary and sit one of the Smiths?

This is the same bullshit that has been going on for years

Player gets drafted by Green Bay
Player is expected to be the best at his position by the time the season starts or he is labeled a bust.

But hey, the Packershome experts have called him a bust
They are never wrong.
Zero2Cool
2019-12-06T18:38:08Z
Originally Posted by: yooperfan 

I've said it before and I'll say it again.
I'm a Michigan fan who watches and reads all things Michigan.
Over the course of Gary's career at Michigan, in my wildest dreams, I never even remotely considered that Gary would ever be picked in the first round of the draft.
When the Packers picked him at the 12 spot I was in total shock and had to check his college highlights to see what I had missed during his Wolverine career.
I found that his highlight reel was very short, not anything that would indicate that this kid would be a first rounder.
Now we have a high first rounder that barely sees the field and when he does he just doesn't produce like a top draft pick is expected to.
It's too early to consider Gary a bust but from what I have seen of him through his college career and his rookie season in Green Bay I'm not expecting a lot of production from him.



I'm more interested in evaluating players that are in their third season than players who haven't even finished their rookie season. I agree, way too early to label any rookie a bust. It takes three seasons to evaluate a player with some accuracy. Unfortunately, fan bases all over can tend to be quick on jumping the "bust" train or even quick to say "Hall of Fame".

I'm not worried about Gary. He gets to learn behind the two Smith's. That has to help.
Mucky Tundra
2019-12-09T04:25:58Z


Wouldn't mind seeing more of this alignment! 👍
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