dfosterf
2 months ago
Originally Posted by: nerdmann 

We could also encourage the QB to get the ball out sooner, especially to the open guy.


I haven't looked so far this year, but he was down to 2.59 seconds average last year, fastest of his career. It looks about the same or better, but I could be wrong on that.

...but we'll go ahead and put it on the list of demands. 😆

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damn skippy I'm an owner. I currently own a full .000018 % of the Packers


Zero2Cool
2 months ago
Originally Posted by: dfosterf 

Well, we all know they aren't going to do any of this until someone goes down with an injury, but it is something to bitch about on a Monday after a pretty hollow victory as victories go. I would definitely try either one of our lineups contrasted with what they (note "they"- see my post from a gazillion years ago regarding CORF, casting off reflected failure, vs BIRG, basking in reflected glory)
...are trotting out. I am of the firm belief that much of Aaron's failures to date can be traced directly to the right tackle position.



I wasn't a fan of putting Jenkins on the right side. That said, he was facing a pretty damn good opponent so maybe that was it? Maybe he just needs more reps at RT? I think Bryan Bulaga is healthy. Jus. Sayin!!!
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dfosterf
2 months ago
He'll ya. Where does Bulaga live these days? I think he's from Illinois. Since we don't have a corporate jet maybe we could charter zygi's to go get him.

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damn skippy I'm an owner. I currently own a full .000018 % of the Packers


nerdmann
2 months ago
Originally Posted by: dfosterf 

Well, we all know they aren't going to do any of this until someone goes down with an injury, but it is something to bitch about on a Monday after a pretty hollow victory as victories go. I would definitely try either one of our lineups contrasted with what they (note "they"- see my post from a gazillion years ago regarding CORF, casting off reflected failure, vs BIRG, basking in reflected glory)
...are trotting out. I am of the firm belief that much of Aaron's failures to date can be traced directly to the right tackle position.


I look at it as not running the offense, hitting the open guy. I believe it is FIXABLE. We need to fix it soon, so we can tell how good we are, whether we need to make an acquisition before the playoffs.

As for RT, Jenkins has been out for awhile and has not even been a year post surgery. He might struggle against really good defensive ends like this guy. He will also get better.

“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
beast
2 months ago
Last week the plan seemed to be, one series Bakhtiari, then one series Nijman at LT for the Packers.

I've read the plan this week was supposed to be two series Bakhtiari, and one series Nijman... but Nijman was dealing with an illness and at halftime, Bakhtiari declared he's doing every series...

So I think they wanted to make sure Bakhtiari was good, before potentially moving Nijman. Now that Bakhtiari seems to be good, I expect them to look into their different options going forward.


I think the bottom line is Jenkins and Nijman are among our best 5 and we need to get them on the field... and Bakhtiari too, though his grades so far, wouldn't nessarily say it's as clear heads and shoulder he's better than others, but he's had some touch opponents his first two weeks back, and might soon look a hell lot better just from weaker opponents.
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beast
2 months ago
The more I watch, the more I say the Packers coaches need to bench Newman and get Nijman on the field with Jenkins and Bakhtiari.


Okay, I get it, you believe in Bakhtiari and Jenkins as your best OTs, and that's fine... but plug Nijman into OG then...

I don't care if Nijman not the best fit at OG, Newman on the field isn't the best fit either...

Packers could have a truely elite pass blocking OL with Bakhtiari, Jenkins, Nijman, Runyan and Myers.

Yeah, their run blocking might just be slightly above average... but Aaron Jones has been absolutely excellent in making people miss, and when you get Dillon started he's hard to stop.
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Zero2Cool
2 months ago
Based on what I read in the article linked below, Jenkins is not moving to Guard. And Yosh will aim to be a swing Tackle.

“I think mostly it’s just him getting out there and feeling comfortable and just going through it. There’s going to be some ups and downs. But one guy I’m not worried about is Elgton. Just the way he prepares every day and his mindset, I think he’s only going to get better every week.”
- OC Adam Stenavich

“Every week, we’re evaluating who’s our best five. Right now, I think Elgton’s the guy for the right tackle job. It’s just going to be this week by week watching him get better and going. But, yeah, there is a discussion of putting Yosh at right tackle. Then again, you’re moving Yosh to a new position and he’s going to go through some growing pains, too. It’s in the discussion, but that’s about all I’m going to say about it.”
- OC Adam Stenavich



https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/news/packers-sticking-with-alpha-jenkins-at-right-tackle 
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Zero2Cool
a month ago
Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 

Who should be the five OL for Packers now that we got Little David back?

Although, this might not be the "best five" individuals, I think it's the best group. And I believe the sum of the parts is more important than the individual parts.

LT - David Bakhtiari
LG - Elgton Jenkins
C - Josh Myers
RG - Jon Runyan Jr
RT - Yosh Nijman



Little over two weeks later, I'm gonna stick with this. Maybe someone else at RT, but this is the OL.

Consider this. Among starters, only Kirk Cousins has faced a higher percentage of pressure because of his RG than Aaron Rodgers according to ProFootballFocus.
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beast
a month ago
Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 

Little over two weeks later, I'm gonna stick with this. Maybe someone else at RT, but this is the OL.

Consider this. Among starters, only Kirk Cousins has faced a higher percentage of pressure because of his RG than Aaron Rodgers according to ProFootballFocus.



I got to figure out how to use PFF better to find the cool stats.

But I agree... they need someone better than Newman. And Nijman has (so far) been outplaying Bakhtiari at LT.

So I'm sure Bakhtiari would hate it, but I'd ask him to go to the right side...

LT: Nijman
LG: Runyan
OC: Myers
RG: Jenkins, Bakhtiari or Tom
RT: Jenkins, Bakhtiari or Tom

And just to be clear, Tom played worse than Newman in his one game, but at least maybe there is upside potential, and maybe it'll piss Newman off and he'll play better.

Runyan played better after being benched.

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Cheesey
a month ago
Our O-line is terrible. Can't run block, can't pass block.
And Aaron Rodgers can't hit the open guy.
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Zero2Cool
a month ago
Originally Posted by: Cheesey 

Our O-line is terrible. Can't run block, can't pass block.
And Aaron Rodgers can't hit the open guy.


I've said it a hundred times. We have an All-Pro LT and a LG who was damn good. so we move the LG to RT. Absolutely idiotic. I hate it. This stupid stuff about 'best five' is the azimine. You put the best UNIT of five out there. Coaches trying to outsmart themselves.

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nerdmann
a month ago
Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 

I've said it a hundred times. We have an All-Pro LT and a LG who was damn good. so we move the LG to RT. Absolutely idiotic. I hate it. This stupid stuff about 'best five' is the azimine. You put the best UNIT of five out there. Coaches trying to outsmart themselves.


Jenkins will knock the rust off, get back to being very good. We'll see about Bakh, gotta at least create the impression he still has it, if we're going to trade that contract away.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
all_about_da_packers
a month ago
Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 

I've said it a hundred times. We have an All-Pro LT and a LG who was damn good. so we move the LG to RT. Absolutely idiotic. I hate it. This stupid stuff about 'best five' is the azimine. You put the best UNIT of five out there. Coaches trying to outsmart themselves.



I read a good rebuttal to this point on Twitter, and I'll share because I thought it might have merit: the Packers clearly don't have confidence that Bakh can go the distance each game, and are assessing on a series-by-series basis.

That means you definitely need Yosh to be the dedicated back-up LT in case he has to step in or rotate with Bakh. Which means, you need a RT who can be committed to that position - which the Packers have chosen as Jenkins. The risk of playing Jenkins at LG (and, presumably, Yosh at RT) is if Bakh is out one series, few series or even an entire game, the cascading changes are: RT (Yosh) is moved to LT, LG (Jenkins) is move to RT, and a new player comes in at LG (or, you move Runyan to LG and have a new player at RG). Either way, that's at least three changes (if not counting moving Runyan to LG) to potentially make if Bakh isn't the LT.

So, the point being made was Jenkins at RT is pretty much out of necessity at least until Bakh can be trusted to play every series, but the Packers won't come out and say that exactly. I too am miffed that Jenkins, when returning from injury, has been shifted to a new position and persistently made to play there when he looks like an average RT at best (and a shell of a potential all-pro player that he was at LG). Maybe thinking there is something forcing Jenkins to be the RT makes me feel better that the coaches aren't clearly missing the obvious because there is a need forcing their hand to play Jenkins at RT. Maybe it also makes me feel better about the growing voice in my mind which keeps suggesting their is a serious disconnect between the Personnel group (Gutey and company) and the coaches.

All of which is to say, at least shift Jenkins back to LG until he knocks the rust off and gets into a rhythm. If the coaches refuse to do it, I am praying it is because of the concern of cascading changes and because Yosh has barely gotten any practice snaps at RT. God help us if the coaches are seeing the game tape and still think Jenkins at RT is fine without anything forcing their hand.
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Zero2Cool
a month ago
Originally Posted by: all_about_da_packers 

I read a good rebuttal to this point on Twitter, and I'll share because I thought it might have merit: the Packers clearly don't have confidence that Bakh can go the distance each game, and are assessing on a series-by-series basis.

That means you definitely need Yosh to be the dedicated back-up LT in case he has to step in or rotate with Bakh. Which means, you need a RT who can be committed to that position - which the Packers have chosen as Jenkins. The risk of playing Jenkins at LG (and, presumably, Yosh at RT) is if Bakh is out one series, few series or even an entire game, the cascading changes are: RT (Yosh) is moved to LT, LG (Jenkins) is move to RT, and a new player comes in at LG (or, you move Runyan to LG and have a new player at RG). Either way, that's at least three changes (if not counting moving Runyan to LG) to potentially make if Bakh isn't the LT.

So, the point being made was Jenkins at RT is pretty much out of necessity at least until Bakh can be trusted to play every series, but the Packers won't come out and say that exactly. I too am miffed that Jenkins, when returning from injury, has been shifted to a new position and persistently made to play there when he looks like an average RT at best (and a shell of a potential all-pro player that he was at LG). Maybe thinking there is something forcing Jenkins to be the RT makes me feel better that the coaches aren't clearly missing the obvious because there is a need forcing their hand to play Jenkins at RT. Maybe it also makes me feel better about the growing voice in my mind which keeps suggesting their is a serious disconnect between the Personnel group (Gutey and company) and the coaches.

All of which is to say, at least shift Jenkins back to LG until he knocks the rust off and gets into a rhythm. If the coaches refuse to do it, I am praying it is because of the concern of cascading changes and because Yosh has barely gotten any practice snaps at RT. God help us if the coaches are seeing the game tape and still think Jenkins at RT is fine without anything forcing their hand.



To me, that point makes absolutely zero sense whatsoever. If Jenkins goes back home, LG and for whatever reason Bakhtiari flounders at LT, you don't need to shuffle the entire OL. Also, Jenkins was Pro Bowl, not All-Pro, right?

I just think we need R's to stay on R and L's to stay on Left. Anyone every pay attention when players say switching from G to T and T to G isn't that big of a deal RELATIVELY speaking to switching the entire side? I'll use Josh Sitton since some of us know the name. He said he's like wiping your ass with the opposite hand. So we took a guy who played very well on left side, he tears ACL and we put him on the right side. I hated it when people opined about it in the offseason and I loathe it now watching it week in week out. Each position is different and when you just plug and play, you're showing zero respect to the intricacies of each position.

I don't know. I just do not like this constant crap about "best five" because the OL is about the UNIT working together, not the individual parts. You get five average Joe's working together, in unison, that's going to be better than five rogue individual "best 5" trotted out there. We saw it in 2014. They weren't insanely great one by one, but as a unit, they did damn well.
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beast
a month ago
Originally Posted by: Cheesey 

Consider yourself lucky.
It was no fun to watch another horrible showing.
It was about as much fun as falling down a flight of stairs

Yes lucky, and horrible doesn't do justice to what happened... in the little I saw, it felt like watching an organized team vs an unorganized group...

Originally Posted by: all_about_da_packers 

I read a good rebuttal to this point on Twitter, and I'll share because I thought it might have merit: the Packers clearly don't have confidence that Bakh can go the distance each game, and are assessing on a series-by-series basis.


I agree with that they don't fully trust Bakhtiari, either I'm that maybe he's not ready for a full game, or based on PFF grades, Nijman is simply out playing him.

That being said, if Jenkins was at LG and Nijman was at RT, and Bakhtiari went down... one could simply keep the RT in place and move Jenkins to LT, where he actually looked good last season.

I think the real issue is that you got Bakhtiari, Nijman, Jenkins and Runyan, all whom all look good on the left side and struggle more on the right side... but someone has to play the right side...

They seem to believe Runyan is limited to OG and Bakhtiari and Nijman are limited to LT... and Myers at Center.

Based on those limitations/assumptions, there are basically three options (to save space Bakhtiari really means Bakhtiari/Nijman) also note where the hole is, in each one.

Bakhtiari, Jenkins, Myers, Runyan, RT hole
Or
Bakhtiari, Runyan, Myers, Jenkins, RT hole
Or
Bakhtiari, Runyan, Myers, RG hole, Jenkins

Of the three options, the Packers don't want that RT hole... so they go with the RG hole option.


Now, one could easily argue those assumptions are wrong... and I'm not saying those seemingly coaches assumptions are correct, but based on the coaches actions, it seems those are the assumptions they have made.

One could also argument it should be... Bakhtiari, LG hole, Myers, Runyan, Nijman with Jenkins working at both LT when Bakhtiari isn't in and LG when he is in.... but that moves a ton more lineman to the opposite side they're currently working on.

But I think Runyan is doing well at LG, and Jenkins is the best option at RT, as the options suck... at least until you feel comfortable moving Bakhtiari or Nijman.

But I'd like to see Tom get more opportunities, I mean, I don't think he's ready, but I'm tired of waiting as some of the current starters aren't ready to play either.

So I'm hoping for
Bakhtiari, Runyan, Myers, Tom, Jenkins
or
Bakhtiari, Runyan, Myers, Jenkins, Tom
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