NFL must fix playoff seeding system· Page 3

Cheesey
Preferred Member

14 years ago

It's not gonna change. Look how hard it is for the NFL to agree on ANYTHING. To overhaul the playoff system that much.....i can't see the owners EVER coming together on this.

mi_keys
Senior Member

14 years ago

#22

mi_keys: You've obviously put a lot of thought into this, but you lost me right at the beginning by saying that fairness should not matter. If you throw the idea of fairness out the window, then you can justify any playoff system.

The situation you describe in your second-to-last paragraph seems pretty rare to me. At any rate, I would expect that in the system that Vandermause proposes, if two teams have the same record and one of them won the division, the division winner would get home field. So those games would still matter.

"Greg C." wrote:

Thank you for being the only one to respond to my post.

That said, I'm not saying fairness should be completely ignored, I am saying it is not the only and possibly not even the most important factor in deciding a playoff seeding system. Most playoff seeding systems have a large degree of fairness and some inequities and that's why I think you need to consider other things such as strengthening the meaning of the division.

In my example, two teams in one division can't possibly finish behind the two teams in the other division. Under Vandermause, they know they will be the 3rd and 4th seeds and get the wild card home game. Likewise, the two in the other division know they will be the 5th and 6th seeds and thus away in the first round of the playoffs. Under the current system the teams in the same division need to win because they need to win their division to have a home field game.

Also, don't assume that is the only scenario in which Vandermause's proposed system would end up with meaningless games at the end of the season. The point was to give an example that is no less likely than the specific example we've run into this year and to suggest that any reductions in the number of games that are meaningless at the end of the year would be minimal at best.

Born and bred a cheesehead

RaiderPride
Senior Member

14 years ago

#23

Not to mention the lost revenue for the city of Green Bay and the business owners and employees of Green Bay.

A home game would have brought a great deal of money to Green Bay.

""People Will Probably Never Remember What You Said, And May Never Remember What You Did. However, People Will Always Remember How You Made Them Feel."

Cheesey
Preferred Member

14 years ago

#24

True R.P.
But in the future, it could just as easily take away a home playoff game from GB if the roles were reversed.

mi_keys
Senior Member

14 years ago

#25

Give the divisional games real meaning beyond mere rivalry pride. Right now they're of essentially ancillary, symbolic importance at best. A team could conceivably lose every game in the division and still be crowned division winner. That makes no sense to me.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:

Division games are the most important regular season games you have. The easiest way to get into the playoffs and have a good seed is to win the division and that's hard to do if you don't win your division games. They are the most important tiebreaker. You are understating their importance to say they are just symbolic.

Born and bred a cheesehead

mi_keys
Senior Member

14 years ago

#26

Fairness is a funny thing.

Do we really believe that the best determinant of a team's strength is W/L record when they don't have completely common opponents. It makes sense for a division winner, since the majority of a divisional rival's opponents is the same. But beyond that, I'm not sure.

I mean, if it was just a matter of W/L record, why do we have everyone and their mother going off about "power ratings" and such?

The nice thing about W/L record is that it is an easy number to read. It is not, however, an easy number to interpret. Or rather, it doesn't contain as much information about "what's fair" or "who's best" as people like Vandermause think.

JMO

"Wade" wrote:

A fair point, but as you point out W/L is the easiest to read and it should have a very strong correlation with how strong a team is. It's a causal relationship, the better you are the more you'll win. Obviously if someone has tougher schedule or bad luck, there will be variability. But it's the simplest model and generally does a pretty good job of picking better teams. As for the power rankings, people play around with those because they're fun.

Born and bred a cheesehead

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

3 years ago

#27

I don't like the rules, too, but unfortunately that are the rules. And if you're a hot team, you don't care about playing at home or not. The Steelers (#6) made it to Vince, so will the Packers :D

Originally Posted by: GermanGilbert

GermanGilbert was spot on!

Emeraldgreen
Rookie

3 years ago

#28

I'm a long time fan of the NFL, and to me I want to be fair for all. The object of playing each season is to win as many games as possible, and then go to the playoffs. Now, I have a serious issue when it comes to wins versus division winners. I hate this rule. A team with a losing record who happens to win their division gets into the playoffs automatic. Such as the case this season in the NFC EAST. All 4 teams have losing records. But then there are teams with much better records than this team, and they don't go to the playoffs/ Then what's the use of winning all the games if your going to be knocked out by a losing team? Ok so what big deal, you won your division because the other 3 teams are worse than you. But because you win your division that makes you guaranteed a spot in the playoffs, and the team who worked and played to win, and did win more games, and they sit out, no way something is terribly wrong with that concept.
If a team has the best record in their division , yes that team can be granted division winners, but don't let a team who worked hard and win more games than your team and then be shut out???

wpr
Preferred Member

3 years ago

#29

In general it doesn't make sense to let a divisional winner into the playoffs with a losing record. For the most part I have advocated that teams should have a winning record in order to make the playoffs. At the very least be 8-8.

That said, in 2010 Seattle made the playoffs with a 7-9 record. Because they won the west they hosted NOLA. At 11-5 some people felt they were the 2nd best team in the NFC that year even though the 11-5 Bears got the first round bye. When Seattle beat the Saints and GB beat the Eagles, it changed the whole playoffs. Ever since then I have not minded when weak divisional winners make the playoffs. They "won" based on the system that is in place.

In order to alleviate this from happening the NFL needs fewer divisions with more teams. The issue becomes attempting to balance everything. They can't have 3 divisions of 5 without losing 2 teams. If they expand and have 3 divisions of 6 you would not see weak teams with losing records make the playoffs. The issue would then become how do you play every team in your division twice and still play other teams not only in your conference but also have non conference games too.

It can be done if 6th place teams face each other and so one. If they do this there is a downside. The weakest teams will have a very weak schedule the following year. When the NFL did this years ago Atlanta made it to the Super Bowl. A couple of other teams have gone from last to first then disappear again. I think the 2006 Bears team had a very easy schedule too after a very bad 2005 season.

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

3 years ago

#30

I think a lot of people complain about the seeding and complaints will always be discovered because there really isn't a flawless strategy. How could there be?

Personally, I haven't liked four team divisions. I think it devalues winning the division. I'm not saying this is the, just saying I'd like it.

Two Conferences
Four Divisions
Eight Teams / Division

Each team plays their divisional opponents twice. Each team plays the opposite conference division opponent where they finished and alternate divisions each year. (if they go 17 games, you just add another matchup)

It'll make those who like seeing AFC vs NFC matchups every 4 years cry, but I don't really care. They are gonna cry anyway.

Then the division winners get a BYE week. Each conference gets four wild card teams.

Or some shit like that.

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