Discussion Board
Welcome Guest! You can login or register. Login or Register.
4 Pages<1234>

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
User is suspended until 4/29/2043 11:56:55 PM(UTC) texaspackerbacker  
#21 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 8:51:27 AM(UTC)
play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
That's the problem. It wasn't Aaron Rodgers back there, but that's the way McCarthy called the game, as if he were still back there.

The whole point texaspackerbacker is coming away from these drives with ZERO points or a token FG is demoralizing to your own D, and the whole team for that matter.

We needed 3 yards, 1 yard, and 2 yards to keep those drives alive, and we passed every time with our 3rd string QB. That seems foolish to me. 1st and goal from the 9? and we don't even run? Wow. Even moreso. All deep in scoring territory. 3 out of 4 in the red zone. Foolish.

D stunk.

O stunk.


The O stunk because Rodgers was not there to make up for the woefully bad O Line. As I said, I'm sure McCarthy would say his playcalls were because of what the Eagles D was doing.

The D stunk, yes, but WHY? That is the reason for this thread. I say we would be even worse off without Capers' tricks and blitzes.

The culprit in ALL of this - O and D both stinking is TED THOMPSON!

nerdmann  
#22 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 9:02:35 AM(UTC)
cheeseheads123 said: Go to Quoted Post
Lovie Smith anyone? Flapper


No bullshit. But he probly wants a HC gig.
nerdmann  
#23 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 9:07:54 AM(UTC)
texaspackerbacker said: Go to Quoted Post
The problem is NOT Capers. The problem is shoddy personnel - Thank you Ted Thompson.

The Packers simply are not capable of consistently manning up and playing basic defense. They NEED all those tricks and blitz packages, whatever. Do the "fire Capers" crowd not remember the days of whatshisname - Sanders? or the guy who came before him - that there was so-o-o-o much whining and complaining about because they featured bland defenses? Even then, the Packers lacked that basic toughness.

The problem is players like Raji and Brad Jones at the top of the list. Pickett is only even borderline if you compare him to Raji. Nick Perry hopefully will show something when healthy, but yesterday he was awful. Palmer was pathetic. Datone Jones and Neal improved from total crap to barely adequate yesterday, Clay Matthews wasn't himself playing one-armed. Our DBs have seemed to fail, but I suspect they are being asked to do too much with all the blitzing - necessary blitzing. Just the same, I saw Burnett mess up a few times, and the other Safeties mostly didn't even get close enough to see them mess up on TV. I used to criticize A. J. Hawk - justifiably, but he has really turned it around this season - all the way to where he is an average LB now.


We've got what, 6 first round picks on defense? A number of 2-3's?

Capers can do it with smoke and mirrors, but he's been exposed the last two weeks. BADLY.

Now he's got Clay back, so he should be back up to relatively full strength.

Capers track record is that the middle of the field goes uncovered and also, the team shits itself on a regular basis. The defense hasn't shown up ready to play for 60 either of the last two weeks.

Btw, Brad Jones had plenty of free agent interest, although I like Lattimore just as much if not more. And as for Datone, dude had TWO sacks yesterday. Sounds like the ankle is getting better.
PackFanWithTwins  
#24 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 10:15:04 AM(UTC)
If you want to call for Capers head, what should have done different? Be more aggressive, less aggressive, blitz more, blitz difference, play coverage more or less? What? Before Capers, there was an outcry for a change in philosophy to be more aggressive.

Our problem seems more to be players failure than coaching.
luigis  
#25 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 10:26:48 AM(UTC)
PackFanWithTwins said: Go to Quoted Post
If you want to call for Capers head, what should have done different? Be more aggressive, less aggressive, blitz more, blitz difference, play coverage more or less? What? Before Capers, there was an outcry for a change in philosophy to be more aggressive.

Our problem seems more to be players failure than coaching.


I wouldn't put the defense in nickel when the Eagles were planning to run the clock.
I wouldn't put Matthews to play with one arm.
I wouldn't put MD Jennings on the field at all.
I would have double covered Boldin after his first 51 catches.
I wouldn't call a prevent-zone in 4th and miles.
I would have changed the scheme after the first 871 yards of Kapernick.
I would have covered Calvin Johnson (oh wait, that's from the future)

Capers needs to go, seriously.

wpr  
#26 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 10:30:15 AM(UTC)
PackFanWithTwins said: Go to Quoted Post
If you want to call for Capers head, what should have done different? Be more aggressive, less aggressive, blitz more, blitz difference, play coverage more or less? What? Before Capers, there was an outcry for a change in philosophy to be more aggressive.

Our problem seems more to be players failure than coaching.


The nice thing about sitting here on the internet (besides avoiding the work that is on our desks.) is we don't have to come up with a better plan. We don't have to name the DC who will do a better job. All we have to do is voice our discontent with Capers.

As far as a failure of the players = failure of the coaching staff as a whole.

I personally have not been much of a fan of the Psycho 1-5-5 or 2-4-5 or what ever formations he runs out there. It may work for a few snaps against a rookie if he and his OC are not prepared for it but 2-3 years later it is no longer a surprise and it is not as effective as it was the very first time it was trotted out.
Mucky Tundra  
#27 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 10:35:55 AM(UTC)
wpr said: Go to Quoted Post
I personally have not been much of a fan of the Psycho 1-5-5 or 2-4-5 or what ever formations he runs out there. It may work for a few snaps against a rookie if he and his OC are not prepared for it but 2-3 years later it is no longer a surprise and it is not as effective as it was the very first time it was trotted out.


Did the 2-4-5 nickel get much use at all before 2012? I don't remember much of it before then.
wpr  
#28 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 10:39:54 AM(UTC)
Mucky Tundra said: Go to Quoted Post
Did the 2-4-5 nickel get much use at all before 2012? I don't remember much of it before then.


yeah I thought he unveiled it back in 2010 when he had only 2 DL due to injuries. It wasn't horrible that game but GB won because of Aaron Rodgers and the offense.
Mucky Tundra  
#29 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 10:49:34 AM(UTC)
wpr said: Go to Quoted Post
yeah I thought he unveiled it back in 2010 when he had only 2 DL due to injuries. It wasn't horrible that game but GB won because of Aaron Rodgers and the offense.


Maybe I'm not as versed in the 3-4 as I should be but it seems like with the 2-4-5 it sorta nerfs the pass rush of the OLB by having them line up across from the Ts and having them go head to head like they're DEs when they're giving up a lot of weight and size. I always thought with OLBs in 3-4 you want them more on the edge and using their speed and athleticism.
IronMan  
#30 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 10:50:42 AM(UTC)
The only part of the game I was able to watch was the last 5 minutes when Philly was trying to run out the clock. The defense just layed down. Very painfull to watch. 1st down after 1st down...
Wade  
#31 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 10:53:08 AM(UTC)
1. I don't have a problem with replacing Capers or position coaches, whether it is done now or at the end of the season. However ... the reality is that you aren't going to be able to install any major "system" changes in mid-season. Even if the new coach "has his system designed and ready to go," you aren't going to have enough time to do much system-changing.

2. I don't have a problem with criticizing Thompson in his ability to get sufficient talent. But the reality is there is no significant ability to infuse new talent mid-season. Mostly you've got people other teams don't want that have been out there for a while (the defensive equivalent of Wallace and Tolzein) or people with injury questions (the defensive equivalent of Flynn).

3. IMO, if there is going to be any major improvement on defense (or, if you are more optimistic, a return to the defensive quality we saw prior to the Bears game) this season, it most likely going to be in (i) finding a way to get better play (ii) from the current players playing (iii) the system they are currently playing. How do you do that? Maybe by putting a light-a-fire motivator in charge (Greene? McCarthy himself). Maybe by sending a message by benching someone who people figured more or less untouchable (Raji? Burnett? Jones?). dunno. Maybe telling the assistant coaches that unless a fire gets lit under the subset of players under their supervision that they will be gone. Find a way to tell everyone, and tell it believably, that everyone's job (save Hawk's and Matthews and, IMO, Pickett) is at serious risk at season's end, period. Maybe all of the above.

McCarthy and his assistants are going to be earning their money and putting longer hours than ever from here on out.
PackFanWithTwins  
#32 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 11:07:30 AM(UTC)
wpr said: Go to Quoted Post
The nice thing about sitting here on the internet (besides avoiding the work that is on our desks.) is we don't have to come up with a better plan. We don't have to name the DC who will do a better job. All we have to do is voice our discontent with Capers.

As far as a failure of the players = failure of the coaching staff as a whole.

I personally have not been much of a fan of the Psycho 1-5-5 or 2-4-5 or what ever formations he runs out there. It may work for a few snaps against a rookie if he and his OC are not prepared for it but 2-3 years later it is no longer a surprise and it is not as effective as it was the very first time it was trotted out.


Our Dline has been very good mostly. Our ILBs have been solid even with injuries. OLB has struggled overcoming their injuries but I would say who has been playing fairly well considering the injuries and players switching positions.

Where we have been hurt the most is the secondary and mainly coverage across the middle which points me to Safety. So perhaps we need to look at our secondary coaches and players. though We could blame Capers for his position coaches.

I don't think Hayward was ready to come back, and that hurt us. That moved Williams back outside. I think we are best with Shields and House on the edge. with Tramon covering the slot.
luigis  
#33 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 11:58:40 AM(UTC)
PackFanWithTwins said: Go to Quoted Post
Our Dline has been very good mostly. Our ILBs have been solid even with injuries. OLB has struggled overcoming their injuries but I would say who has been playing fairly well considering the injuries and players switching positions.

Where we have been hurt the most is the secondary and mainly coverage across the middle which points me to Safety. So perhaps we need to look at our secondary coaches and players. though We could blame Capers for his position coaches.

I don't think Hayward was ready to come back, and that hurt us. That moved Williams back outside. I think we are best with Shields and House on the edge. with Tramon covering the slot.


I agree with you. Hayward's return destroyed our defense.

I think it had a very negative effect on the players attitude. House and Hyde were playing really well and they both said, specially House, that they have done all they could to keep playing many snaps. Then suddenly Hayward returns and plays 29 snaps. House and Hyde just disappeared.

I don't know if this was Capers fault but he is responsible for that so it add against him.

Shields, Tramon, House and Hyde had found good chemistry and Hayward =who can't tackle my grandma= destroyed that chemistry.
User is suspended until 4/29/2043 11:56:55 PM(UTC) texaspackerbacker  
#34 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 12:50:16 PM(UTC)
nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
We've got what, 6 first round picks on defense? A number of 2-3's?

Capers can do it with smoke and mirrors, but he's been exposed the last two weeks. BADLY.

Now he's got Clay back, so he should be back up to relatively full strength.

Capers track record is that the middle of the field goes uncovered and also, the team sh!ts itself on a regular basis. The defense hasn't shown up ready to play for 60 either of the last two weeks.

Btw, Brad Jones had plenty of free agent interest, although I like Lattimore just as much if not more. And as for Datone, dude had TWO sacks yesterday. Sounds like the ankle is getting better.


That six would be who? Raji, Datone Jones, Perry, Hawk, Matthews, and who am I missing, that's only five. Significantly, none of those five are DBs - the portion of the D that has been less bad. The front seven has stunk the worst - Raji worst of all.

My question - when deciding to blame Capers or not, is who was the prime decision maker on those draft picks? Arguably NONE of them other than Matthews was a decent pick. It's probably too soon to judge Datone as bad, maybe the same with Perry, and Hawk finally after 6 or 7 years of mediocrity is playing decent this season - still not up to the level of where he was drafted. And Raji is a big worthless lump - a disappointment if he had been drafted in the 4th round much less the 1st.

I'm convinced that the lack of interceptions and fumble recoveries this season is luck and circumstance, not anything Capers can be blamed for. The same is true of a lot of the big plays against us like that first TD yesterday. On that play, we had double coverage, but no pass rush without blitzing - because of poor quality in the front seven - what are you gonna do? You can only compensate for so much with schemes.

User is suspended until 4/29/2043 11:56:55 PM(UTC) texaspackerbacker  
#35 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 1:19:41 PM(UTC)
Wade said: Go to Quoted Post
1. I don't have a problem with replacing Capers or position coaches, whether it is done now or at the end of the season. However ... the reality is that you aren't going to be able to install any major "system" changes in mid-season. Even if the new coach "has his system designed and ready to go," you aren't going to have enough time to do much system-changing.

2. I don't have a problem with criticizing Thompson in his ability to get sufficient talent. But the reality is there is no significant ability to infuse new talent mid-season. Mostly you've got people other teams don't want that have been out there for a while (the defensive equivalent of Wallace and Tolzein) or people with injury questions (the defensive equivalent of Flynn).

3. IMO, if there is going to be any major improvement on defense (or, if you are more optimistic, a return to the defensive quality we saw prior to the Bears game) this season, it most likely going to be in (i) finding a way to get better play (ii) from the current players playing (iii) the system they are currently playing. How do you do that? Maybe by putting a light-a-fire motivator in charge (Greene? McCarthy himself). Maybe by sending a message by benching someone who people figured more or less untouchable (Raji? Burnett? Jones?). dunno. Maybe telling the assistant coaches that unless a fire gets lit under the subset of players under their supervision that they will be gone. Find a way to tell everyone, and tell it believably, that everyone's job (save Hawk's and Matthews and, IMO, Pickett) is at serious risk at season's end, period. Maybe all of the above.

McCarthy and his assistants are going to be earning their money and putting longer hours than ever from here on out.


I agree with a lot of what you say, Wade. The question is, WHY was the Packers D better (or at least SEEMED better) before the Bears game?

Somebody in one of these threads sarcastically said "it's all about Aaron Rodgers - even the bad D now that he is out". Well, that's true. Opposition offenses play different when the Packers are ahead. They are limited in their playcalling - playing catch-up with a lot of passing, etc. - allow Capers' schemes to work and compensate for low quality personnel. So yes, not having Aaron Rodgers really does affect our defense also.

Hopefully with Tolzien starting the game - prepared and with a gameplan designed for him, we can take the lead and force some of the same stuff as when Rodgers is there.

PackFanWithTwins  
#36 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 1:32:52 PM(UTC)
texaspackerbacker said: Go to Quoted Post
I agree with a lot of what you say, Wade. The question is, WHY was the Packers D better (or at least SEEMED better) before the Bears game?

Somebody in one of these threads sarcastically said "it's all about Aaron Rodgers - even the bad D now that he is out". Well, that's true. Opposition offenses play different when the Packers are ahead. They are limited in their playcalling - playing catch-up with a lot of passing, etc. - allow Capers' schemes to work and compensate for low quality personnel. So yes, not having Aaron Rodgers really does affect our defense also.

Hopefully with Tolzien starting the game - prepared and with a gameplan designed for him, we can take the lead and force some of the same stuff as when Rodgers is there.



Can't agree on the difference being Rodgers. Offenses play the same until they get forced into being pass happy by being down, and this year even with Rodgers we were not blowing anybody's doors off to get to that point.

The biggest change that I see making a difference is Casey Hayward coming back. Which moved Tramon back outside. I think we are best in coverage with Shields and House on the edges. And Tramon in the slot.
luigis  
#37 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 1:37:13 PM(UTC)
PackFanWithTwins said: Go to Quoted Post
Can't agree on the difference being Rodgers. Offenses play the same until they get forced into being pass happy by being down, and this year even with Rodgers we were not blowing anybody's doors off to get to that point.

The biggest change that I see making a difference is Casey Hayward coming back. Which moved Tramon back outside. I think we are best in coverage with Shields and House on the edges. And Tramon in the slot.


I think it's not only about coverage but about feelings. House and Hyde where having great chemistry and suddenly Hayward takes a spot. The inclusion of Hayward destroyed the chemistry in the secondary and it sent a confusing message to players "it doesn't matter how well you play I'll bench you anyway for no reason"
dhazer  
#38 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 1:52:04 PM(UTC)
Why is alot of you saying the downfall started with the Bears game? I look at see the following:

49ers = 34
Redskins = 20
Bengals = 34
Lions =9
ravens = 17
Browns = 13
Vikings = 31
Bears = 27
Eagles = 27



granted the last 4 games were against backup qbs but we have been giving up points all year.
steveishere  
#39 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 1:54:45 PM(UTC)
I don't think it's Hayward that's the issue. I don't think the CBs have really been too bad at all even in the last couple games. It's mostly been safeties. The biggest difference I've seen is McCown and Foles are pretty much on hot streaks right now while the QBs we played before them were Flacco and Weeden who have both been having awful seasons. Hayward was in the secondary against Minnesota and they only gave up 145 yards.
play2win  
#40 Posted : Monday, November 11, 2013 1:55:47 PM(UTC)
dhazer said: Go to Quoted Post
Why is alot of you saying the downfall started with the Bears game? I look at see the following:

49ers = 34
Redskins = 20
Bengals = 34
Lions =9
ravens = 17
Browns = 13
Vikings = 31
Bears = 27
Eagles = 27



granted the last 4 games were against backup qbs but we have been giving up points all year.


3 years running at that. I'm kind of with Dakota. I can't see McCarthy doing it, but would not mind seeing it happen. And, as he said, that 2 man DL shit is for the birds… ugh. I don't ever want to see it again. I remember thinking that yesterday when I saw it, saying to myself, "why is there just Raji and Pick on the line?" Gasket/mind blown...
Rss Feed
Users browsing this topic
Guest
4 Pages<1234>
Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Notification

Icon
Error

Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (3h) : QB Mark Sanchez joining the Bears.
Zero2Cool (6h) : double it up
Zero2Cool (6h) : I'm kidding, relax....
Zero2Cool (6h) : and now he has been cut
uffda udfa (23h) : Per Schefter: Former Skins DT Ricky Jean Francois signed a one-year, $3M deal with Packers, per source.
uffda udfa (23h) : Per Schefter: FormerSkins DT Ricky Jean Francois signed a one-year, $3M deal with Packers, per source.
Zero2Cool (23-Mar) : lol by .01 not what i thought
Zero2Cool (23-Mar) : he's faster than Montgomery
uffda udfa (22-Mar) : Packers re-sign Christine Michael
Smokey (22-Mar) : Easier said than fixed .
Nonstopdrivel (22-Mar) : The web version lists who started the thread; the mobile version lists who last updated it.
Nonstopdrivel (22-Mar) : Also, there's a weird disparity between the web version and online version of this site.
Nonstopdrivel (22-Mar) : ;-)
Zero2Cool (21-Mar) : Packers wanted D. Ware in 2005. Thank you Cowboys!
Zero2Cool (21-Mar) : lol Rourke
Nonstopdrivel (21-Mar) : I HATE HATE HATE the way all threads get marked as read after viewing a few of them in one session. It's obnoxious.
Smokey (21-Mar) : Check out this site, NFLdraftscout.com , a great resource site.
Smokey (20-Mar) : Jared Cook signs with Raiders .
Smokey (20-Mar) : I did watch SB 45 on YouTube the other night, very eye opening .
Smokey (20-Mar) : Watching Spring Training Baseball, Nationals vs Yankees, very interesting .
Zero2Cool (19-Mar) : B1G making some noise in that bracket
Zero2Cool (19-Mar) : The more join, the more talk, the better. including John
Zero2Cool (19-Mar) : no forum should need one person, we have others, speak up!
gbguy20 (19-Mar) : slow forum needs more uffda
Smokey (19-Mar) : There's always next year .
Smokey (18-Mar) : Virginia is still in it !
Smokey (18-Mar) : On Wisconsin
Zero2Cool (18-Mar) : Down goes Villanova!! Badgers!!!
Zero2Cool (18-Mar) : Might have went into your SPAM or JUNK folder??
yooperfan (18-Mar) : Funny I never got the invite
wpr (17-Mar) : Ignoring the Signing Bonus, Jones' base is only $725K above the vet min
Zero2Cool (16-Mar) : Not many seem interested, but I did invite those from last year.
dhazer (16-Mar) : no bracket challenge Kevin?
Zero2Cool (16-Mar) : Blame twitter on the /home page here lol
Zero2Cool (16-Mar) : Datone Jones Vikings deal $3.75M, $1.6M signing bonus, $1.5M salary, $31,250 per game active, $150K workout bonus, $1.25M sacks-pt incentive
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2016 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 11 @ 12:00 PM
at Jaguars
Sunday, Sep 18 @ 7:30 PM
at Vikings
Sunday, Sep 25 @ 12:00 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Oct 2 @ 12:00 AM
BYE
Sunday, Oct 9 @ 7:30 PM
GIANTS
Sunday, Oct 16 @ 3:25 PM
COWBOYS
Thursday, Oct 20 @ 7:25 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Oct 30 @ 3:25 PM
at Falcons
Sunday, Nov 6 @ 3:25 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Nov 13 @ 12:00 PM
at Titans
Sunday, Nov 20 @ 7:30 PM
at Redskins
Monday, Nov 28 @ 7:30 PM
at Eagles
Sunday, Dec 4 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Dec 11 @ 3:25 PM
SEAHAWKS
Sunday, Dec 18 @ 12:00 PM
at Bears
Saturday, Dec 24 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Jan 1 @ 7:30 PM
at Lions
Think About It
Think About It
Recent Topics
1h / Green Bay Packers Talk / PackFanWithTwins

1h / Green Bay Packers Talk / gbguy20

3h / Green Bay Packers Talk / sschind

16h / Green Bay Packers Talk / sschind

18h / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

23h / Green Bay Packers Talk / PackFanWithTwins

23-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / nerdmann

23-Mar / Announcements / Zero2Cool

23-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

23-Mar / Fantasy Sports Talk / wpr

23-Mar / Fantasy Sports Talk / Smokey

22-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Nonstopdrivel

22-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

20-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / gbguy20

17-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / yooperfan

Headlines