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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#1 Posted : Friday, November 15, 2013 9:33:00 PM(UTC)
texaspackerbacker

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The Democrats now seem to be jumping like rats off the sinking ship of Obamacare. Republicans, asked to present a "counter solution", declare "it ain't our mess". I said this would be "non-political", but it's a well known fact that I approach things - most things - from the Right. I hope, however, that gives me a degree of credibility in presenting a seemingly Left-leaning solution, a Single Payer system. "Single Payer" means basically the government is the provider of healthcare - owning the facilities and employing the medical personnel.

There is actually a MODEL for the solution I present already, and I have first hand knowledge of it. I refer to the VA Healthcare system. Basically expand from treating veterans to treating everyone. This, of course, would have the true stigma of being "socialized medicine" - free care to anybody needing it. The "facilities" would be all or most of the current hospitals and clinics - procured by Eminent Domain - at a fair and reasonable price, as the Constitution mandates. Doctors, nurses, and other medical personnel would be government employees - paid at something fairly close to what they make now. They, of course, could not be forced to participate - that would be a form of slavery, but if the pay was fair, I think enough would. In addition, there could be paying for the high cost of medical school - the string attached of government service - similar to what many small towns do now to procure a doctor.

In addition to the Single Payer system as I have described it, there would be a "shadow system" of private healthcare for anyone choosing not to partake of the free government provided care. This would be either paid directly by patients or paid by private insurance companies/policies without the burdensome Obamacare regulations that are driving up costs so much.

There is valid criticism of this from both directions: the left will say, truly, that patients in the government system will receive lesser care - delays and maybe even substandard treatment. The right will say, truly, that the costs will be tremendous.

To the left, I would say "live with it - it's decent and it's free, and anybody that doesn't like it has the option to pay" - if they can afford it.

To the right, I would say, if you don't want to accept what is free, then you have the choice to pay. And as for the "cost" to taxpayers, the SOLUTION would be NOT to raise taxes, but to continue what is already going on subtly - ever increasing deficits - repaid with dollars - the dollar that is the world's reserve currency, and which will remain so as long as we are the dominant military power of the world.

I don't expect this to happen - it's entirely too logical and even-handed a solution, and stubbornness on both sides would probably preclude it, but it would work.
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Offline Wade  
#2 Posted : Saturday, November 16, 2013 8:11:03 AM(UTC)
Wade

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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post

There is actually a MODEL for the solution I present already, and I have first hand knowledge of it. I refer to the VA Healthcare system. Basically expand from treating veterans to treating everyone. This, of course, would have the true stigma of being "socialized medicine" - free care to anybody needing it. The "facilities" would be all or most of the current hospitals and clinics - procured by Eminent Domain - at a fair and reasonable price, as the Constitution mandates. Doctors, nurses, and other medical personnel would be government employees - paid at something fairly close to what they make now. They, of course, could not be forced to participate - that would be a form of slavery, but if the pay was fair, I think enough would. In addition, there could be paying for the high cost of medical school - the string attached of government service - similar to what many small towns do now to procure a doctor.


Ah, the notion that the government should pay when it takes choices away. Never happen, alas.

Its too bad. 95% of what is wrong with American government today would disappear if, when government is asked by some of us to change the rules of the game for others of us, all in support of their newest and best "good idea for America no society, for the world, for the environment, for workers, for business, or for anyone and anything", in short whenever we ask government to do something, if we just insisted that those who have choices taken away by the changes in rules be compensated.

An amazing number of things now done by the state, and an amazing number of the things people might come up with, for health care or otherwise, would turn out to be bad ideas that cost too much.

Nope, never happen.


None of the above. It wouldn't have been a wasted vote. Obama and Romney -- Those were the wasted votes.
Offline texaspackerbacker  
#3 Posted : Saturday, November 16, 2013 10:02:47 AM(UTC)
texaspackerbacker

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I really hate to be defending something that basically is socialism, but yes, there is choice in what I outlined. A person could take what is lesser but decent OR he could basically have the best of what we have right now - pre-Obamacare - private insurance with far less regulation that this clusterfuck called Obamacare, or just pay for treatment if someone prefers.

Is that not choice?
Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
Offline Wade  
#4 Posted : Saturday, November 16, 2013 12:11:23 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
I really hate to be defending something that basically is socialism, but yes, there is choice in what I outlined. A person could take what is lesser but decent OR he could basically have the best of what we have right now - pre-Obamacare - private insurance with far less regulation that this clusterf*ck called Obamacare, or just pay for treatment if someone prefers.

Is that not choice?


Yes. But it is not "free" to switch to that choice. It's the nature of rules: when you change them, you take away some of the choices people used to have under the old rules. And, IMO, those now-unavailable-that-were-available-before-the-change choices deserve compensation.



None of the above. It wouldn't have been a wasted vote. Obama and Romney -- Those were the wasted votes.
Offline DakotaT  
#5 Posted : Saturday, November 16, 2013 2:21:57 PM(UTC)
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We should be given a certain amount of medical insurance as legal citizens of this country - it can be part of the of the services package we currently enjoy. If people want more coverage, they have the right to purchase better policies outside of the given stuff. Unfortunately this will require an increase in taxes or a reduction in our "War Machine".
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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#6 Posted : Saturday, November 16, 2013 3:30:28 PM(UTC)
texaspackerbacker

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Originally Posted by: Wade Go to Quoted Post
Yes. But it is not "free" to switch to that choice. It's the nature of rules: when you change them, you take away some of the choices people used to have under the old rules. And, IMO, those now-unavailable-that-were-available-before-the-change choices deserve compensation.



HOW is it not free? What rules? Admittedly, this is all pie-in-the-sky, because extremists on both sides are not going to compromise enough to allow something this sensible. However, as I describe it, it's free. There is only copay or other cost to individuals if the law is written that way. I say DON'T write it that way - simply give EVERYBODY what veterans have now. And regarding the "pay for it" option, DON'T saddle the insurers with a lot of Obamacare type rules - as is driving up costs under Obamacare. What's wrong with that?

And yes, it would take ridiculous money to implement this, BUT use deficits - as our government is already so prone to do - and print print print - DON'T raise taxes.

Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
Offline texaspackerbacker  
#7 Posted : Saturday, November 16, 2013 3:39:55 PM(UTC)
texaspackerbacker

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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
We should be given a certain amount of medical insurance as legal citizens of this country - it can be part of the of the services package we currently enjoy. If people want more coverage, they have the right to purchase better policies outside of the given stuff. Unfortunately this will require an increase in taxes or a reduction in our "War Machine".


Yeah, it could be done that way, and because corrupt politicians and insurance companies would probably prefer something like that, it is probably a more likely final result. But WHY would you prefer something like THAT instead of direct single payer care provided to people - along with the choice of paying for it without government intrusion adding to the cost? How do you see what you describe as better for PEOPLE?

And hell no, there is no need for tax increases or defense cuts in any of this. Finance it with debt, and let the damn Chinese, Arab, German, etc. creditors pay for it - and repay them with dollars that are good because WE SAY they are good, and we are the biggest dog in the yard. What's wrong with that - from an AMERICAN point of view, not this silly crap you usually spew about how bad America is for taking advantage of those I mentioned above?

Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
Online Dulak  
#8 Posted : Monday, December 2, 2013 1:14:50 PM(UTC)
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I get the whole obama care thing ...

get healthcare to the masses ...

problem is 2 things:

1. HC prices are out of control ... medical professionals are paid to do services rather then to help sick people get better. What do you think your _____ will do as far as your HC goes?

2. other I dont know enough about ...
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